Karma. We all know what it means and many of us don’t really think about it. I, on the other hand, have always been somewhat of a believer in karma. I used to be the OM. That’s right, this BS used to be the OM. When I met Undo I did not know that she was married (I did on our second date), so I became the OM and we eventually got married. Now the roles have changed for me and I’m the BS looking to smack the crap out of the OM.

After Undo got divorced the family was thrilled that she finally got out of the marriage (they knew about the A). He was very emotionally abusive and was never spoken of highly at all. He is now on his third wife and it looks like he’ll be searching for number four from the way Undo’s kids talk. Not a surprise… he really is an [censored] to women.

I was Undo’s third A during her M. Her first A left her feeling guilty. She went to MC (alone, he wouldn’t go… pride) and nothing was resolved. The second A was purely a PA (no sex for 18 months with H) and it served its purpose. Then she met me. I filled a boatload of EN’s for her that her H didn’t want to do. She was so happy with me that she knew she would never have another A and actually promised.

Oops. D-day came and I was in complete shock. There was no way she had an A. She swore it would never happen. She… loves… me. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> I crashed harder than any plane could ever crash. Typical heartbreak, yada yada yada – time for MC.

It appears that both our MC and her IC were amazed that she didn’t have an A earlier. Not only that, they were surprised this was the only one. They diagnosed her with everything, but nothing hit me harder than to find out about the sexual abuse from her father. Her father is an alcoholic and hasn’t worked since she was 13. That’s when the sexual abuse started.

Her mother had problems also. She taught the kids that if you don’t talk about your problems then they will go away on their own. Ignore problems and they will solve themselves. So, sexual abuse for Undo was never talked about but it just didn’t seem to be going away on its own and nothing was solved either.

Both MC and IC have stated that Undo never had any positive male role models while growing up (No… really?) and that she learned all of her communication skills from mom (Gee, thanks mom). She was raised to be self-destructive and would find a way to destroy anything good in her life.

Undo’s mom was diagnosed with esophageal cancer last summer and it was hurting Undo a lot. Her mom is everything to her. Her mother is OK now (thankfully), but it sent Undo into a serious depression which was the spark to light the fuse for self-destruction.

So, how does this get God involved? Well, I know a lot of you say not to question God’s will, so I don’t. But I am wondering if this all has to do with her father. Listen to this thought and see if it makes sense.

1 – Father abuses Undo from 13 to 16
2 – She meets first H who emotionally destroyed her
3 – She meets me and discovers I really am a prince
4 – Mom get’s cancer that sends Undo into serious depression
5 – She meets OM and has EA/PA for 3 months
6 – OM has major heart surgery and nearly dies.
7 – Undo breaks down and calls me from hospital and tells me about A. I come to be by her side while she cries for OM.
8 – Undo realizes her mistake and begs for forgiveness. I’m the best thing that ever happened to her (darn right I am).
9 – I break down and contact counselors and after many sessions they dig the sexual abuse out of her.

What if God wants her to make some kind of peace with her father before he dies? If he dies and this is never done then maybe she would be a wreak forever because she would have so much anger and would never be able to have the necessary peace she needs. Maybe God had a plan all along after her abuse and made sure that the true guardian angel in her life would be me and he knew that I would never leave her during this time. Maybe God knew that I would do everything I could to help Undo so that she could come to some kind of understanding and make peace with her father. Maybe God will reward us both once she makes peace with her father with the greatest gift of all – true happiness in our marriage.

BTW – Apparently less than 5% of A that become marriages last less then 5 years. I think God will make sure that we get further than that. We’ve been together for nearly 11 years.
<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Hopeful,

WARNING 2x4

If I were a wayward spouse I would be rather intimidated by reconciling with a BS that exercised no self criticism, saw themselves as "God's way of helping", and no need for self improvement.

Your W must have some darn good qualities to make this all worth it. Sure, it's a heroic thing to try to recover your marriage from infidelity, but we should do it because our spouse and our marriage are worth it... not just for the sake of being a hero IMHO.

We all have our dark doors and baggage. It's a lot easier to analyse someone else's than take a good hard look at our own.

Your wife is the only one that can deal with her dark doors and baggage. You can't do it for her. It's your job to love her for who she is, nurture her, care for her, not to frickin' analyse her or "fix" her.

Hopeful, no 2x4's here even though we started out on opposite sides of the fence (I am a BS). What you are describing fits my situation and my wife very closely. How much reearch have you done on childhood sexual abuse? I'm asking because of what you said about peace with her father being necessary for your wife's recovery. It apparently isn't . Her father is a monster and sometimes you just can't get rid of Frakenstein. I have some excellent resources and books to suggest if you like. I can only imagine what you are going through. I hope it helps you if I tell you that there IS light at the end of the tunnel. The changes in my wife and our relationship are seemingly miraculous only a relatively short time after her recovery of her memories.

Hang in there bud. You have a small miracle in your hands with a survivor of CSA. I am continually awed and humbled by the strength and character my wife posesses. If we can help each other in any way let me know.

I've got to say that having a parental unit die/be gravely ill can lead to such a depression that a person will "just not care" anymore....about anything or anyone else. That's what happened to Wookie. His mother had stomach cancer and passed....he lost his mind and his moral compass.

But God doesn't cause these things. He makes the best out of the decisions we make. In Wookie's case He made my OC...they are the only rainbows through the clouds. Did God want Wookie and OW to make these decisions...no. But He did His best with what He had.

Perhaps God doesn't want an olive branch extended to Undo's nightmarish DNA donor. Perhaps God wants Undo forgive him (she doesn't have to tell him) and move on with her life. Forgiveness doesn't have to mean you contact the person. It's about your peace and letting go.

- Kimmy

Undo will never talk to her father about this and make peace between them. Any peace will be for herself, and that peace will be up to her as to what it may be.

I don't think God wanted her and her father to make ammends, but I do think God wants her to forgive while he is alive so she doesn't have so much anger that she could never forgive when he passes. The anger would most likely have such a negative impact that she would probably become very self-destructive and unintentionally hurt many people because of her anger.

Of course I'm reaching when I say everything that I said in the above post, and I'm not saying that it is all true. I'm just saying... What if. If God wanted to give her a chance to forgive her father then maybe he did set up many hurdles that she had to jump over that led us to find each other and I could be part of her foundation during this time.

I'm more of a person of science and tend to think that her self-destructive character is definitely linked with her great upbringing and her fantastic first husband, just as our counselors think so. Of all the choices she had to pick from the counselors want to know why she chose to say yes to the affair. Her past is very key to why she would have said yes then to say no. They'll find the reason and help us both.

did she expose father to mother as a sexual abuser..
did mom immediately leave father and press full charges so that father went to jail..

do you have children
do you let your children around THIS man
and THIS woman who allows men to abuse their own children??

are you 100000000000000000000000000% sure of the abuse with mother being aware..
or is this an out for present behavior,......

ark

BTW – Apparently less than 5% of A that become marriages last less then 5 years. I think God will make sure that we get further than that. We’ve been together for nearly 11 years.

do you really think that is an appropriate statement on this board
it has a lot of potential to hurt a lot of BS.... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

ark

it is 10000000000000000% insanity to reconcile ANYTHING with a man that does his daughter!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

what a bunch of pop-psycho bullcrap..........

God does not expect her to be friends or make nice..he tore up his parent card a long long time ago...

God does expect her to forgive so that it does not damage her present life and children and those she loves and cherishes...

ARK

There is no intention for her to make peace between each other. It's the peace of her soul that she seeks. Trying to make peace when the abuser has passed is very difficult as any counselor will tell you.

The peace is for her... not them.

When she was 16 her mother asked her if anything wrong was happening between her and her father and Undo said no. Very common with sexually abused children.

As for her children being near him... they are now 14 and 17 (both boys) and they are never alone with him. It's always family. I never knew about this but for all the years that I've known him it does not shock me at all.

why would God ask her to forgive unforgivable behavior...

which is what her father did....

there is no forgiveness
there is no justifying

there is only acceptance that for NO GOOD REASON it happened...

and it was an IT

there was nothing she did that caused it
there was nothing she did that could change it...

there is a huge deep ramification if she told her mom and mom stayed with HIM....
there is the active choice of betrayal...

and any adult that stays with a person that hurts their children...is 10000000000000% more vile than the abuser themself....

did she as a young girl tell her mom..
and did her mom do everything to have this man removed that second from their lives....from that moment forward??

ark



ARK

no mother asks such a question out of the blue without already knowing something is seriously seriously wrong...

I can't believe anyone lets there be contact with their own children with this man..

I can't understand it
I can't fathom it...

I wouldn't have my children in the same house let alone room...

this is what I don;t get...
people want 'closure"
and
'healing' on these things...the whole time denying the reality of consequences of such actions...

why not tell her mother today.....
as long as child sexual predators continue to be protected from their own vile acts...the more sick this all becomes...

ARK

Hopeful,

""I was Undo’s third A during her M.""

""Oops. D-day came and I was in complete shock. There was no way she had an A. She swore it would never happen.""

Uuummm, excuse me ????????????????????????????????????

k

Krusht,

You read correctly. That's why I titled this Karma or God.

I don't agree that "any counselor" will tell you it's easier to forgive when the abuser is still alive. My experience and the counsel I've been given, is that forgiveness is entirely independent of the abuser. It makes no difference whether the abuser is still alive. It's also so important that the person who was abused determines their own time-table for forgiveness. Any outisde pressure is counterproductive. You can't let something go until you've owned it. So if she's just starting to deal with all this, even speaking about forgiveness yet is premature. I've always known that forgiveness was what I wanted, but it's been a gradual process, and at times when my husband has pressured me to "get there" (because he knows I'll be happier), it just slows down the process for me. Also, believing that it's easier when the abuser's alive puts more pressure on her, which means it might not be as deep and as genuine.

About your kids being around him. It is impossible to ensure they are never alone with him. All it takes it 2-3 minutes for their lives to be changed forever. If they go to the bathroom, if they're in the backyard, there are so many opportunities for a predator. It doesn't matter that they are teenagers. Predators are manipulative enough that by the times the kids realize what's happening, it's too late. I would not allow my children to be around either parent, the abuser or the enabler (because she has shown she won't protect children--and I agree that the fact she even asked means she knew). The risk just isn't worth it. Additionally, it sets a bad example for your kids to be around such dynamics.

Hopeful4future,

I was sexually abused as a toddler (by my father and uncle). I stayed silent about this for more than 25 years and didn’t tell anyone (except my H before we’ve got married). For years I've tried to forget & forgive but I failed – the anger, hurt & grief inside of me and towards the 2 people who have stolen my childhood innocence away from me was just too big… Then I finally decided to get professional help and realized the ONLY way I could get past the anger and start the healing process, would be to CONFRONT my abusers (either in writing or face-to-face). I did both – first the letters and then face-to-face. It was the most difficult and scaring thing I ever did, but it worked for me and helped to “release” the feelings of anger, grief, pain and other negative emotions I harbored inside myself for so long… After this I could also start to forgive – something I thought would never happen.

Hopeful4future, the above worked for me and I don’t suggest or imply that your W must necessarily do the same, but should she ever consider to confront her father (and other abusers if there are any), she must do it with the help, guidance and support of a good & professional counselor. She can also get hold of the book ”Toxic Parents” by Dr Susan Forward. This book was very helpful to me. I can highly recommend it. It also serves as a self-help guide and explain step-by-step what actions to take and how to prepare yourself for the 'confrontation’ of the abuser(s).

There are also other books I can recommend as well as links to informative websites. I can also post you threads on how sexual child abuse and infidelity are related to each another etc. I have much information I can post to you, so if you or Undo are interested just tell me and I will sent the links.

Blessings,
Suzet

^^^Bump for hopeful4future^^^

I am adding my own blurb here.....
I too was abused as a child.
I remember begging my mom and dad not to go out and leave me with my aunt, but I was afraid to tell them why.
My aunt and her boyfriend were very abusive to me, I was 6.
Years later my Mother had the audacity to tell me that she thought something had been going on, but she didn't want to make problems.
When I told my Dad, about 6 years ago, he went straight over to my aunt and confronted her. They haven't spoken since.
I feel I have to accept what happened to me, my aunt was ill and still denies it.
I confronted her,and had the whole family in an uproar.
My Grandmother told me to get over it, it was 30 years ago, what does it matter now.
But as a mom of 8 children, I would never, ever, allow anyone to touch any of my children. I would never allow my aunt to come near any of them.
It is my job to protect them from the evil people who rob children of their innocence and destroy their lives.