OK men let's hear it. For those of us on internet dating sights who have read these descriptions over & over yet those of us that fit the description but aren't given the courtesy of a return email, these & other similar descriptions seem to be just so much talk.

One other factor that makes me wonder about just how much men value physical beauty is the fact that so many men are willing to date well below their age but not even one year above it.

Here's a qualifier: By no means does this include ALL men. Surely some men actually care about the inner workings more than the outer package just as some women truly don't care that a man make a million. Be honest!

Rule 1: believe nothing that anyone puts in their on-line profile. It's market-speak and little more. They use all the right buzzwords, often without even knowing what they mean. When I tried on-line dating, I found out very quickly that most of the women were looking for something completely different than they claimed.

Rule 2: The vast majority of men using on-line dating sites are looking only for a sex partner.

Many of us care more about the inner workings. Women are just as fickle and dishonest about this as the man, nams. Every woman I know claims to want a kind, gentle, thoughtful, sensitive man who's going to treat them well. But what almost all of them go for is the pin-up quality bad boy, who's nothing but trouble. They get burned time and again and sit around complaining about what pigs all men are. Then you say something to them like "Why not go out with Joe. He's a really great guy and I know he's interested." Answer: "Joe! No no, he's too nice. Okay for a friend, but I wouldn't date him."

You nailed it Check. Women say they want that sensitive nice guy who will treat them well and be loyal, but in the end what they go for is the bad boy, the rogue the guy who is exciting.

I have given up being a nice guy. All it got me was a cheatin' wife and few second dates. Now, I am just working on being a man and not worrying one lick about pleasing a woman.

Generalities.

Men value external beauty. Of course, there is more, but a woman who doesn't look like she cares what she looks like is not going to get her pick of the men. Men start out thinking that a woman who is beautiful on the outside may be beautiful on the inside. So she is worth a gamble.

Men date younger women as an ego boost. A youngster isn't that interesting to them, but think of what the buddies are going to think!

A confident woman can be so confident that she scares off men.

Girls don't like boys, girls like cars and money....

For the record, I am currently dating a woman who is 2 years older than me, and has advanced degreess that I will never get.

She cares about her appearance, has a great personality, and is smart. If she were rich, she would be perfect. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

But, I no longer worry what she will think about me and my many faults and imperfections. She has to accept me as I am or she can move on.

On average, of the 20 emails I initiate I get 3 responses. One is positive, the other two are "no thanks". I receive no response for the other 17. That's just the breaks. Frustrating, I know.

I receive emails that I don't respond to. Just easier that way. Why don't I respond? It is because of a host of reasons. Sometimes it is because I'm not attracted to their picture. Other times it is because of how they answered some of the profile questions. Other times it is because I don't like their description paragraphs.



When I was growing up, it was frustrating when all the girls wanted to go out with older men. I don't think its so much a physical beauty thing as it is just something hard wired by genetics. Younger women are better able to produce children, older men are better at providing for them.

Are we bound by our genetics? No, but still, we are influenced by them.



Nams, I would ask you out if I lived closer to you. And you know what? The outer package is just as important to me as the inner package. Babe, you don't have anything to be ashamed of!!

Give it time... things will work out for you.

Some of us are cynical, aren't we? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Ya'll are picking the wrong women. There are kind, genuine, loving, women out there, that DO want a nice guy. If you are not dating her, you are looking at the wrong women, or you simply need to keep looking, and keep offering your gifts.... until the right lady ... a *worthy* lady .... appreciates you and your gifts.

What's that proverb about not throwing your pearls before swine?

The guy I'm dating is a little concerned because he doesn't feel the "spark" that he wants to feel for me right away, yet he enjoys me, sees long-term potential with me, and wants to see what can grow in our relationship. Perhaps he sees the value that I am a good-hearted, loving, genuine woman, and not something fluffy, fake, surface or superficial.

I think too often people are looking for that "wow" factor (we've talked about it here before), that sometimes comes from physical attractiveness, or a special personality, initial chemistry, "bad boy" or "bad girl" syndrome, or whatever.... and really we need to be looking at more important, deep-down values and qualites that are long-lasting.... inner-beauty and strength.... etc. We know there are people out there like that, and there are people *LOOKING* for that. Don't become cynical. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Internet-dating is a whole 'nother issue. Yep, you have to go through the numbers a little bit. No, you can't believe everything you read on the profiles, but SOME of them are genuine (like mine). You have to weed out the fakes, but you also have to be willing to give a chance to someone that may surprise you, deep down inside. I've seen some bad ones, and some really good ones too.

Many men deceive - as do many women. I'm sorry to say that deceit has become common in our society.


This is true. (And for what it's worth, I've noticed that many younger men are now dating older women as well.) Your assumption concerning physical beauty is probably true, although I feel there are more factors involved. I typically date very near my age and always have. (With the exception of a few instances when I've dated women on both sides of my age.) For me, the "overall package" is what's important and age is of little importance to me one way or the other. However by and large, you're probably correct that most men desire younger women for reasons of beauty.

FR

Does anyone else find it interesting that your choice of what is attractive changes as you age???

My daughter will point out boys her age and say they are "hot" but I'd have ZERO interest in them at my age -- however when I was HER age that is what I would've liked too (well maybe...tattoos and piercings? icky!)

Now I'll see a man in his 30's or 40's and be interested and she'd say "GROSS"!!!

So right now, I wouldn't be interest in a 60 or 70 year old. I wonder if I will be when I get there??????

Anybody else wonder how that happens???

[color:"blue"] I see this a lot and I've noticed that it is paired with mostly guys with no children that have never been married. I think a lot of men reach their 40th and say whoops - better get busy, but women their own age are completely uninterested in children. JMHO [/color]


[color:"blue"]The young guys that are looking for older women? I decided to interrogate a couple of them that contacted me, because I couldn't understand how a 27 year old man would want to "hook up with" a 40 year old woman. They complained about women their own age being all about committment and a paycheck. Reading between the lines, my assumption was that these guys didn't earn big bucks (and they didn't - some of them were living with their folks still), and they didn't want to get married or couldn't find a date. So none of the women thier own age were interested in them. Let's be honest here - women DO consider economic status when choosing a guy and guys DO consider physical beauty. In general. I'm not talking about the exceptions - just in general.

V.[/color]

I don't know... I'm still trying to figure out how everybody keeps getting younger when I'm not getting any older...

I've always thought the young guy/older woman thing was some kind of myth.

However -- Now that I'm a 40 year old, I've learned its really really true. I get hit on a lot by 25 - 35 year olds.

I've chalked it up to a maturity thing -- young guys get really sick of the drama and games young woman play.

TheBigGuy, You really are a sweetheart, I knew it!
<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Thank you BG <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" /> If you come to CT & need a guide count me in.

I send something back to each person that either winks or sends an email. For me it's a courtesy, as is responding if someone says hello or smiles at me in real life. I would never just look at them then look away. I understand others don't see the need but it still seems rude to me.

It's not that money or looks don't matter, they do. I like to know a guy has his fiscal house in order & can at least care for his needs. Looks are more subjective. I'd like to feel some attraction but it really has to do more with his overall manner, kind, courtious, quick to smile, laugh, openness. I've noticed, & I'm sure many other have too, that the people we like become more attractive to us as time goes on where as the nasty types who we once thought attractive start to look unattractive. We notice they have large pores, their teeth aren't straight, maybe their knuckles are too hairy, & we tend to focus on the stuff that's wrong with their looks. The too big nose on the person we like now has a roman, nobal quality.

My profile is very much like me. So when I read that guys consider themselves kind & genuine & are looking for a down to earth, kind, genuine women yet don't to write back their profiles are now not believable. It's a filtering process, I know that, but why bother to put in characteristics that you don't value & don't possess, seems like wasted time to me.

Maybe people don't understand themselves as well as they appear to in their profiles. They say they possess qualities they don't, they say they want qualities without understanding the full scope of what they are saying.

I guess it's just the roller coaster of internet dating. Some days the ride is fun & exhilarating, others you're on the slow up hill climb. It takes time to read the words people choose to use & reading between the lines is important, so is an open mind.

Interesting... I see the same thing in many women around here - partied and "had fun" through their 30's, then the clock went off, and now they say "whoops" - better settle down and have some kids - but many of the guys in their 30's are still glued to football and are giving each other wedgies... So these women start looking at guys like me <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> -a bit older, settled down, and good dads... Too bad I don't want to have more kids; if I did, I would have them lined up for blocks <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />.

AGG

[color:"green"]NO SIR!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> [/color]

You got it, AGG! I've mentioned the young woman (33) I work with, who divorced her H last December. Her biological clock is ticking so loud that it's keeping her awake at night. She really wants to remarry, settle down and start having babies. She's being completely unrealistic and her approach is self-defeating. She goes out every night of the week and out of town every weekend. She's a very beautiful woman, but she has the reputation of being a party girl. I've told her repeatedly that the kind of man who is ready to marry and start a family - and who has the emotional maturity necessary to do so - is not going to do so with a party girl, regardless of how beautiful she is. Men want only one thing from a party girl and we all know what that is.

The truth is, at 33 (she's turning 34 in a couple of months), and given her attitude and approach, she's really lost her chance for children. She's too fresh out of her divorce to be reasonably looking for a new husband. She's looking at the absolute wrong kind of men (party boys). She's also just taken a promotion at work and her new position is going to require 60-hour work weeks for the foreseeable future. So between work and partying, she's getting worn down. If she were to get her thinking straight today, she'd realize that she needs to give herself another year before she starts thinking about finding a new husband. Then she's going to have to sift through a lot of loosers before she finds the right man. If she's smart, he will be between 37 and 42, but the problem there is that most men in this age range already have children and don't want anymore or have decided that they don't want children. Then there needs to be about a year of courtship. Then they need to be married three to five years before having children. That's going to put her between 39 and 42 when she has her first child. It is not easy for a woman this age pregnant, and even if she can the risk for Down's syndrome and other trisomy defects is so high, most ob-syns would advise against it. And a pregnacy at that age puts a tremendous strain on a woman's body.

But she won't hear any of this -- can't hear it over that loud ticking and her girlfriends keep turning up the volume. She's going to do it her way, which will be to marry a carbon copy of her ex-husband - a macho, non-professional party boy, which she says is the only kind of man that gets her motor running. She'll start having babies right of the bat. Then in three of four years, she will find herself divorced again, but this time with kids to raise and from a man who will not have the financial resources to contribute much in the way of child support. Luckily, she has a good job (for now anyway). But how does a woman juggle 60-hour work weeks with being an engaged mommy? It's so sad to watch such someone mess their life up so badly.

About older men and younger women.... I think some men go for younger women for the sake of ego. Others do so because they are hung up on the youth thing and want a nubile woman. But you know, a lot of women go for older men; that is men 20+ years older than themselves. Some are suffering from daddy syndrome and others are looking for a sugar daddy. I can take a 50-something year old man, put him in an Armani suite, Ferragamo shoes, a Rolex watch, and a 700 series BMW, take him downtown to one of the hip and happening clubs, and I gaurantee that within minutes he'll find himself surrounded by flirtacious women between 24 and 30. Such is life in the big city.

Another thing this woman is blind to AGG is this: She assumes she can get pregnant simply because she wants to. It's a gift & she's seeing having a baby as something she can acquire because she desires to do so.

The good news is, if she is open to it, is that she can learn a lot & gain understanding about life from things she doesn't get to have her way.

Humility. commpassion, understanding, & more, all great traits that will make her a better person.

This is the unfortunate byproduct of the "woman, you can do it all your own way" movement. The one that told women that they can go have their careers, and wait for marriage and kids until after grad school, med school, and some years of practice. The movement that kept telling women that they can have babies in their late 30s and early 40s, after they have achieved everything else.

The problem is that no one told the female body about this. Many recent studies show a clear and consistent decline in women's fertility starting at about 30. So sure, they can wait till 38, but many do not realize that they cannot get pregnant "on demand" at that age (nor any age, really). I have several friends who didn't start "trying" until late 30s, and who are now childless.

Like Check said, there are tons of women around here who seem to have missed the boat, and have decided that now that they are 35, it's time to have a baby. And it seems like they have a schedule - go date, find a guy, get married, get pregnant. Well, you can imagine that for most of them, the idea of dating for two years before an engagement is out of the question - it doesn't fit with their schedule.

One such woman I dated said something to me that really made me see her position - she said "I am not in any hurry, but I don't want to date for six months if it doesn't lead to anything - I don't want to waste my time". I can certainly understand her - if I were in her shoes, I wouldn't want to waste those precious six months either, not when the clock is ticking. But it also made me see why I most likely will never date someone like her again - I don't want any pressure in hurrying a relationship along, and I can't give someone a promise that dating will lead to a marriage down the line. Another childless woman I dated asked me after two months, "So are we going to have a baby?". Yikes.

I am afraid that when I date such women, that they see me as a 6'3" sperm, rather than me as a person. I feel that they process everything in terms of "will he give me good children". I am afraid that they don't really look at many other aspects of me that they should be looking at. I may be wrong, but that is how it often feels to me.

Anyway, that is why I now make it clear that I don't want to have any more kids, at least not with someone who is childless. Like I said, I cut off 80% of the eligible women by doing this, but I feel much more comfortable dating women who are not 40 and childless.

Hope I didn't offend anyone, I was just speaking about my personal preferences; YMMV.

AGG

There is a male equivalent to this woman. He's mid 40s to early fifties, never married & he definitely wants kids. He is looking for a young woman mid 20s to early thirties.

What I think what these two have in common is selfishness & a belief they have complete control of their lives. They've been brought up on the mantra that if you want something enough, work hard enough, you get it. But love & babies don't work that way.

I wonder what kind of parents these two would make. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

I've known a few guys like the one's you mention, nams. While older men do have more patience with children (I know I do), starting a family so late is a very bad idea. By the time you get them out of college you'll be 75+ years old. Their children will never know their grandfather. On the practical side, at the end of a hard day now, I am much more tired that I was even five years ago. I could not imagine having to add the resposibility of child care on top of that.

You know, I've had many people ask why I never had children and I've responded with my belief that one shouldn't have children unless they really want them badly and are in a financial position to provide very well from them. When I was younger I couldn't meet either of these requirements so I decided not to have children. I've had women - never a man - tell be that I am very selfish for having this attitude! Say what?