Can anyone relate and give me some advise.
I posted on here about 9 months ago...I am the ww, I cheated on my husband about one year ago. I have been in counseling since and I have had no contact since my first NC letter (about a year). Well now I guess you could say I made my own bed now I have to sleep in it....I discovered my H has a secret email account, and he has been talking with the OM girlfriend. I asked him about why he needs to have secret conversations with her via the phone and email, he said she makes him feel good and he needs to talk to someone who knows how he feels. Well, I feel like I deserve whatever he throws my way, but I am not coping to well with it. I feel like I am trying to move forward, and I am comitted to making our relationship work. This has set me back, or it has opened my eyes? Maybe, it can't be worked out, maybe it would be best if we went our seperate ways. I am just feeling discouraged and really don't know what to think. I don't like living with the cloud of constant guilt over my head. I feel like my guilt pails in comparision to the hurt he feels. I feel like I can never have a logical answer a reason to explain what I did, that will essentially rid him of this pain...I feel like I should give up throw in the towel and hope he finds happiness down the road...he deserves better. I love him, I just can't live in constant guilt. I DON'T KNOW WHAT TO THINK?

Sag

I kept in contact with OM GF until we were both sure NC was holding. We now have contact information so we can check the infidel's diaries, but no longer stay in 'converational' contact.

I can relate to what your H is saying - its was WONDERFUL to be able to unburden myself to a total stranger in whose interests it ws to NOT lie to me at a time when my life was a whirlwind of lies.

th ebig difference between youd H and me is that I POJAed my contact with OM GF with my Squid ( FWW).

She HATED the thought of me contacting her, and I am sure it accelerated her becoming more transparent in activity.

Stop panicking and being so dramatic. Raise it as a POJA issue with your H and see his reaction.

Its bound to hurt you and it will not be healthy for your H as every contact is a stark reminder of your affair.

If your H will converse with me about his, ask him to post here or I will post up my email addres he can send to.

All blessings.

Wow, Sag.....

Your situation looks like it's straight out of my book! I was the FWW, and my H became friends with a girl who had also been the BS in infidelity. At first, she told him to try and work it out with me. But as I found out later, it developed heavily into an EA.

I'm not certain why, but I think I knew in Feb 2004 that things were not going to work out. Our M was nowhere near better, and he continued to call me names, degrade me, etc. This had been a pattern before the A, but having the A just gave him the trump card.

In Feb 2004, I started having severe emotional reactions. I began vomitting every day, was anxious. The reality that our M definitely wasn't going to make it unless I took serious measures was clear. The reason why I was so anxious was because somewhere inside, I knew my exH wouldn't respond.

So I had to pick myself up emotionally and realize that even though I had an A, that didn't justify his treatment of me, and his lack of participation in the M. I started to set boundaries. Like not going out drinking 5 nights a week. I decided I needed to be able to cultivate my friendships with girls. So I would go with a girlfriend to dinner or something. I would no longer cower when he called me names. I stood up for myself, and said that I deserved respect because I was NOT the person I had been during the A. When he would blame me for feeling a certain way, or a certain situation occuring, I would not take responsibility unless it was something I truly had some responsibility in.

I guess I had to change. And I had to be the one to drive the M toward a 'healthy' place. But he did not follow. He resisted, and felt he should have infinite power over me because of what I had done to him.

In August of last year, he was spending so much time at the bar with OW that I couldn't stand it anymore. I remember sitting in the car outside the bar talking with him....saying that I was not comfortable with their relationship. He told me that she was the only one who understood, and he could trust and respect her....where he could not me. I told him that I needed him to put the same amount of effort into our M as he was into her if we were going to stay together. He said he couldn't.

We separated that weekend. And we went through about 2 months of him calling and crying because he missed me, or yelling and degrading me because I was the reason things had gotten to this point.

In September, I managed to read some of their e-mails (exH had left his work e-mail up while I had to come home to get some clothes). Suffice it to say he was in a full blown EA. Wanting to spend the rest of his life with her, etc.

I e-mailed them both the next day, and neither of them saw anything 'wrong' with their relationship.

I filed for divorce 2 weeks later. The OW left him at the end of Nov, and he and I would go to dinner about once a week. We would sometimes just talk about superficial things. And sometimes we would talk about what went wrong in the M. Sometimes we would talk for 5 hours and cry. But basically, in the end, we 'worked through' our M for the D.

By the time the D court date came, neither of us was 100% sure it was what we wanted. But we figured if we did get back together, we would want a new M anyway. So I went and did the prove-up.

A week later, we encountered each other at the lake (completely unexpected), and I found out that he had been dating a girl for about a month. At that moment, any feelings of obligation for him went out the window. While he was talking about possibly 'getting back together' with me in the future, he had a girlfriend.

So we called it definitely quits. We are cordial and friendly now. Probably respect each other and trust each other more on this level than we could in the M. So it is truly a better place for us. And I am readjusting to single life.

Sorry such a long story. Just hope it might help you in some way. A couple of things....you have to separate the A from the condition of the M. You need to have your own boundaries even if you were the one who had the A. Just make sure they are healthy and reasonable boundaries. Don't let your guilt make you a doormat. You, too, deserve a happy M. Just like your H does. And DON'T comromise your role as W just because he feels he needs someone to talk to about your A. BOTH spouses should be an open book. It's the policy of radical honesty. He needs to be working on a more intimate, honest, and respectful relationship with you. As should you with him.

Try to take an emotional step back and objectively look at the 'health' of your M. If it's not healthy, then push for what will make it healthy. But don't compromise that b/c you feel guilt. Know that if your M isn't healthy, then it will just be vulnerable for another A (yours or his) in the future. And you would rather leave the M before you allow either one of you to engage in another A.

That's JMVHO.

Hope it's of some help to you. I feel for you, and wish you the best.

Bob,

I agree that she should POJA it with her husband. But I don't think she is being panicky or dramatic. I think her internal flags are going up, and she needs to listen to them. I think it's healthy. It means she is learning from her mistakes.

Again JMVHO

Well now I guess you could say I made my own bed now I have to sleep in it....

this is huge misnomer of many former WS....
that they have to take crap and disrepect from a spouse becasue they USED to be crappy and USED to be disrespectful...

Although it often causes some turmoil and initial backlash WS can and should be even stronger advocates of safe boundaries and the importance of marriage vows...

This role is truly only for reformed WS for if you are WS just going through the motions then don't even bother for it is just another lie....

But the Former WS who approaches their spouse on issues like this and the danger and pain they hold....with much love and compassion....can often show true leadership and earn great respect from the BS...even though they are at first kicking and screaming....

And I agree that Former WS often do get dramatic getting caught up in the I deserve this role....and the BS will often say and do such things...
and much healthier is the WS who doesn't back down one inch on such things....for a truly reformed WS has no desire to ever ever undermine the importance of vows NOR
ever ever
be with someone who does such a thing...

the lessons of a FWS are very very important...and can not be based on situations....
if the vows have meaning stand up for them ...no matter what the past actions were.....

so speak your love NOT on the fact of who you used to be...but speak you love to your BS on what they have taught you and you have learned on your own..

"Dear BS (who is close to becoming a WS)(dont' say that part outloud.... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />)

the core root of affairs is the turning away from a spouse and turning towards another person...I once was that person capable of doing that...and I saw your pain when I did it..and I see your pain from the past...now today...

But I can not forget the lesson that you taught me by staying with me...that you and I must never ever turn from one another and that we must continually work together to create that marriage and bond as a strong and happy one."

I can never ever return to that person able to hurt you so.
I can never ever disregard those vows again
and never will I return myself to a place in marriage where that is even a possibility...

you helped teach me this...
and I believe in you enough to think that you really believe it as well....
reaching out to third persons in a marriage is the begining of it's demise."

don't power struggle it.
don't argue it on a he said she said level or a he did this she did that level..

don't sink to the level of because you in the PAST did something that that defines you today..
don't you dare believe that for one second..for if and when you do...we are all doomed...

speak your boundaries globally
speak your boundaries in non blaming way...but from a peripheral stance..that no good in any marriage no matter it status or even past status does well when married people turn to other people..

and realize that if this is his choice...
that it is his choice...and you are NOT responsible for it any more than HE was responsible for your affair....

hold your head high...sag...
for a person who recreates themselves away from someone who was capable of such deeds...and can truly say never ever again...
are very blessed
and have Gods Grace..
for as humans we all fail
we all do wrong..
and blessed blessed blessed are us that can go forth and do wrong no more...

be strong...and don't let that old person left in the dust define who you are today........

blessed are they who are meek and humble they shall inherit the earth.....

ARK

Sag, I think your H will probably be more and more willing to pull away from the OP's GF as you rebuild trust again. But it is cruel to threaten to dump him just because he is still taking protective measures like touching base with OMW. That is a selfish demand, a huge lovebuster. He is trying to recover and shouldn't be punished for that.

I know that it eased my mind greatly during recovery to keep tabs with the OW to ensure that no more contact had been made. I needed that reassurance in order to recover from the enormous traumatic wound left by my H's affair. Believe me, your guilt is nowhere as painful as the betrayal he feels. And he didn't sign up for this, you did.

I know you can't be constantly reminded of your adultery, but you have to remember that he is still constantly reminded of your adultery. He is still in recovery. So while you may want to forget and move on, he CAN'T. It takes much more than 12 months to recover from that shock. It usually take TWO YEARS.

Instead of threatening to dump him for protecting himself from you, why not find ways to rebuild trust and make him feel safe? I don't think that threatening to dump him will make him feel too safe. Trust is the issue here, Sag, and it was you who ruined it. Better to try and undo your damage than punish the victim for reacting to it.

Melody,

I will respectfully disagree with you here, because of the above 'bold' comments. IF he were simply taking protective measures, there would be no need for a 'secret' e-mail account. In addition, his response would have been something along the lines of "I am ensuring that NC is in place."

For him to be having her 'build him up' and 'relating to his feelings' will make it nearly impossible for Sag to even build any trust. Because he is emotionally investing in another woman.

Trust me....I went through it. It wasn't until about Feb or March of this year before my exH came out of his fog enough to realize that what he had done with his OW was exactly what I had done with OM....just minus the physical. Which he even admitted that he would have done that had she let him. All of my efforts were null and void.

I don't think anyone is telling Sag to leave her H....or to call it quits. But she does need to prevent against vulnerability in her M. Ark is right. She needs to lead. Standing up for healthy boundaries is the only thing that earned back my exH's respect. Even though we are no longer Med, he has said many times that he now has respect and trust toward me.

Her H is clearly vulnerable. It is up to Sag to protect the M.

L.I.T., just the fact that they discuss their mutual problem, and find relief in that, does not tell me that it is an inappropriate relationship. It may very well be! I can see your point. If he is developing an inappropriate relationship with her, then he is venturing into seriously dangerous ground. If he is simply doing it for purposes of self protection, then she doesn't have a case. I don't see enough here, though, that would lead me to that conclusion.

Another huge issue I see here is her statement that her "guilt is much greater than his hurt" and that she just wants to move on. That attitude would be very detrimental to rebuilding trust and restoring this marriage. In addition to her implied threat that she should just dump him because he is talking to her. Those are all HUGE LOVEBUSTERS than can only harm the marriage.

Noticed how I put the words 'I Feel' in bold? The purpose is so that you realize that basing your actions on feelings is what is drove you to have a full blown affair and is what is driving your H's EA [like it or not, he IS having an EA [emotional affair] with the OM's GF].

If you are serious about being committed to saving/rebuilding your marriage then you will have to let go of the 'I feels' and emotionally accept the reality that your H's recovery is not something that can and should be rushed by either one of you. You also must emotionally accept that while your guilt was a good thing to make you aware of the damaged you caused, that it can become detrimental to the long term benefit of your marriage. But more than anything else, please emotionally accept that BOTH of your recoveries are one day at a time processes in which you will have good days and bad days but that the bad ones will start becoming less and less as time goes by.

You can't control your H's actions just like he can't control yours, but you can certainly let him know ONE TIME [if you haven't done so already] that his secretive communiques with the OM's GF are very much like the ones you had with the OM at the very start of your affair. Unlike you, he'll be fully aware of the slippery slope he is on and hopefully will reach the right decision.

You have to keep your eyes on the prize and not let your emotions sabotage your hard earned efforts to save/rebuild your marriage.

This is a great support group and I highly advice you to come here as often as needed to get support and direction. Remember that you, and your H, are not alone.

TMCM

Just wanted to respond to a few of you who have given me some much appreciated advice.

Bob, sorry but I am not familiar with the slogans yet, What does POJA mean? I didn't feel like I am being dramatic, just concerned about the future of my marriage, and curious as to what is accepatable for someone in my position to expect from the BS. I want to be reasonable, I am just trying to figure out what "reasonable" is. Just to enligten you as to why I am not coping well with this info is My H had previously been in contact with the OM girlfriend and we discussed in C with our therapist that it was unhealthy and would make it more difficult for our relationship to recover if he continued talking to her. This was back in December. My H told me then that he would not continue private conversatons with her. However, I discovered the secret Yahoo account yesterday..he has been calling and emailing her maybe every 3-4 days since July. In his emails he tells her"Thinking of you", "I created this email so I could hear from you more often", "the sound of your voice would definately make me feel better" referring to the fact he has a bad cold..."I'm hoping we will have a chance to knock out a couple of (her personal goals) this fall when I am in the area", we live in different states, he will be making a few trips near where she lives this fall. He plans on taking her to dinner so they can talk. "he dosn't want to look over his shoulder when they talk...so the email is the best way". This resembles too much of the feelings I felt when I got involved in my EA which then turned into PA. Red flags for sure!! Also she signs her emial: Love, ~H.

Lit, I am grateful you have taken the time to tell your story to me. I have set boundries, and have been working on my self esteem issues. I have expressed to my husband that we both need to be open and honest, He has always been honest, just not very open. I know he is vulnerable to an A right now, he dosn,t seem to think so. I have told him that I do not think I can make it in our M if he continues to have secretive contact with her...is that realistic to expect from him?

I do not have time to respond to everyone, eventually I will. I will respond to a few statements. I did not threaten to dump my H, I am just expressing the confusion I am trying to sort thru. I want my M to survive, I love my H, I want him to be happy, and sometimes I do get caught up in the dramatic conclusion of "I don't deserve to be with him", "it would be best for him to have a relationship with someone who didn't hurt him" These are just random thoughts, they do not mean I want to forget it and move on. I definately plan on getting out of this "guilt ridden, I dont deserve him rut" I am going to apply the advice I received from several of you and take the lead in this situation, stand up for healthy boundries, earn his trust, and show him that I do love him. TMCM...you are very wise in your recongnition that I let my emotions control me and sabotage the efforts in our M. Accepting the reality that my H suffers daily because of my bad decisions is a difficult emotion to let go. But anything is worth saving my marriage, I just have to learn healty ways to control my emotions. Any suggestions?

You may want to consider acknowledging to yourself [during those time you are alone and depressed] that even good, kind, and generous people can do bad, cruel, and selfish things to others but unlike bad people, good people eventually realize what they did and make every effort to atone for their bad deeds to the ones they hurt.

You may also want to start keeping a recovery journal that your H can read anytime he wishes. Not only will it help you to feel better to write about your daily experiences but it can be a good indicator of how the recovery is progressing and how YOU are becoming a better W, friend and lover to your H. It may even help your H to gain insight into your deepest thoughts and feelings [intimacy] without him feeling pressured.

I hope you give some serious thought regarding my suggestions.

Best wishes to both you and your H.


TMCM

It is strongly suggested that people read the MB basic concepts ~before~ they begin posting.

POJA = policy of joint agreement

Please do yourself a favor .... go to the top of this page and click on "basic concepts" and read, re-read and learn this good stuff. You will be miles ahead once you absorb the basic concepts.

Sag,

I don't have much time, but I wanted to comment on this:



I think the general idea behind what you are saying is fair. If you are both to recover, there must be radical honesty, and you both must be an open book to each other. It is the only way to build intimacy again. That intimacy will help him learn to trust you, and will help you learn to trust the M.

But I'm not certain I would say it that way to him. Ark had some very good suggestions on how to word things. It shouldn't be about you making it in the M. It should be whether or not it is a healthy M. And a healthy M takes two healthy people. There may very well be some things you need to work on (emotional distance when need be, sustaining your own self esteem, forgiving yourself)....just like there will be some things he needs to work on (grieving the 'old' M, coping with the daily reminders of the A, sustaining his own self esteem without having to turn to OM's girlfriend). You both must focus on those while at the same time, being open with your feelings, understanding, and love for each other.

From what you posted earlier with what you posted now, he is indeed in his own EA. Hands down.

So you must take the initiative if you want this M to survive. Start leading by example, and holding up your own boundaries. It will take a strong person to do this. Work to make yourself strong and healthy.

Keep posting....this place is a Godsend!

Please everyone, try to understand - a situation like SAGs H and I had with OM GF is difficult to understand unless you have been there.

In my case when OM GF called me , sympathy was GUARANTEED and we could speak absolutely as openly about this shameful secret as we could NEVER do anywhere else. AND we had the same attitiude to their affair, felt the same afterwards AND we were WORKING TOGETHER to police NC and share information about the A so we could verify we were being told the truth by our spouses. She called me 2 or three times after exposure, then whenever she had a nugget of diary information so I could cross check that Squid and OM would not meet at a sport event. About ten phone calls in all.

Strange to hear the love this woman had for the 'monstrous' OM despite his destruction of her heart. And she, no doubt , amazed to hear my love for Squid despite anything. We almost gave each other PERMISSION to love the monsters in our beds by letting each other know that we could BOTH love our spouse/BF despite their huge betrayal of us. Bizarre.

When I felt her calls were becoming 'chats' rather than direct collaboration against OM & Squid's affair, I asked about it on here and was advised that I should POJA contact with the then still-foggy Squid.

Squid HATED the idea and demanded that I stop all contact.

I said that it made me feel safer to know OM GF was monitoring OMs end of NC and eventually we compromised on exceptional contact between OM GF and I. Only when we need to check schedules of the OP.

In summary I bet I know how sag's H feels - it is WONDERFUL to have a truly sympathetic ear and a source of information about this MOST traumatic event, and helpful to have to restrain our most brutal view of OM too. I learned of OMs utter repentence from OM GF and his breakdown following the simultaneous end of his affair and the tragic death of his estranged son. I learned things that made me feel OM was not the monster I made him, but a bit of a pathetic man whose desperate reliance on is GF emasculated him so he looked for admiration and kudos in flattering female subordinates in his sport.

I would have not learned any of that without OM GF contacting me.

I doubt VERY MUCH that sag's BH is having an EA or PA with OM GF if he is like me, just that a source of sympathy, fact and truth after so many lies is hard to give up to face the hard facts of having to deal with these issues with his FWW. Secretive male/female relationships are never healthy though and must stop IMO. My contact with OM GF were after exposure, and i still feel had it continued longer it would have been detrimental to our recovery. Sag's H is secretive which doesn't bode well.

Squid explained to me how she felt long after when we discussed this, that the reason she hated me contacting OM GF so much is that it reminded her of what she did to OM GFs family and it makes her feel useless , guilty and depraved. She also hated that I would be discussing Squid as being a slut during the worst and most shameful episode of her life and she feared it might turn ME against her.

The reason I wrote this is to explain to someone who may not have been here what the dynamics can be like.

I read nothing in the sit described by sag that indicates an affair is going on, just contact between the two protagonsts who can support NC. Thats why I think her response was dramatic.

* Sag, I think you need to explain very calmly that you understand his relationship with OM GF was needed for a while, but it is unhealthy now and hurtful to you and that NC should best be considered for ALL of OMs family and all YOUR family. No contact. Ever.

All blessings.

Thanks for explaining it so well, Bob. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Bob and Melody,

I respect your positions. Truly I do because I was a BS when my H was engaged, then a WS, and finally a BS again. I understand the desire to have someone understand what you are going through.

But also as someone who had an EA that led into a PA, it's a fine line to walk. And to be quite honest, why would you want to put your hand near the fire...you might just get burned.

What if you were to take away the knowledge that Sag is the WW. And take away the knowledge that his 'confidant' is OM's girlfriend. Just for the sake of argument.

If Sag had posted these things:


If we didn't know she was the WW, and the girl her H was talking to was OM's girlfriend, I'd bet that almost everyone on this board would say that her H was involved in a full blown EA.


FOG statement. I said it in my EA. A healthy person is responsible for their own feelings. They lean on their spouse instead of another friend of the opposite sex.

My OM "knew how I felt"....he "sympathized" with my marital situation. He "made me feel good." FOG, FOG, FOG. I'm sorry, but I can't support any person relying on another (of the opposite sex) outside the M for emotional support. Particularly after it's been a year.

If I didn't learn THAT from my A, then I wouldn't even consider my self 'recovering.'


Bob....OK, NC has been a year. And in the past 2 months only , he has managed to be in contact with her TWICE as much as you were with OM's girlfriend. Even after the fact that they POJA'd and AGREED in counseling that he would not contact her b/c it was counteractive to their recovery.

Addictive nature of an A.



There should be no need for a secret account if they are policing NC. He should be able to openly talk and communicate with OM's girlfriend IF that is the true nature of their relationship.



I really DO understand the desire to have someone understand the pain and horror a BS goes through. I wanted and needed that. But I also found it in friends of the SAME SEX, and by posting on this board.

Policing NC is one thing. But if NC has been upheld for a year...and he agreed not to contact OM's girlfriend....but has BROKEN that agreement and is using this girl as a 'support system'....

To be honest, I wish someone had called ME out when I was stepping around these boundaries with OM. I might not have let it go to a full PA. What BS doesn't wish that had happened in their own M? Just because he is a BS doesn't mean he can't cross that line.

I cannot with good conscience tell her to allow it to keep happening. I think it is a HUGE risk, and I think Sag's H is well beyond using this 'contact' in a healthy way....he is now in the FOG with this girl. Thus, he is not recognizing Sag's efforts.

We all speak from our own experience here. And I can say that in my case, the 'support' that my exH needed indeed led to an EA. Much of what my exH said in his e-mails to OW was similar to what Sag's H is saying. Except my exH's OW was not acquainted in any way with my OM.

Sag,

Regardless of whether he is in an EA or not, this contact clearly bothers you. And it should be something that you both discuss and both come to an enthusiastic conclusion about. Period.

LIT

I said it was unhealthy and should not continue.

And with respect OM GF and I got support , a listening ear and highly practical information from each other than nobody on MB or anyone else in fact could ever give. I do not regret any of my contacts with OM GF.

A year is along time to stay in touch with OM GF secretly, I agree. It needs to end. I guess all useful information has been wrung out by now.

NC should mean OM GF too.

L.I.T., I can't speak for Bob, but I think we both agree with you that contact with the OMW should be ended. This is what Bob did in his situation. What we were trying to express is the relief that a BS has in having an ally against the affair. And having such an ally is initially a matter of self protection that should not be shared with the WS until trust has been built. Sure, contact has not been made for a year, but it takes much longer than that to rebuild trust. Granted, there comes a time when it is time cut the strings and move forward.

I think in this case, it has evolved beyond a mutually beneficial relationship into possibly an EA that is harmful to the marriage. It is disrespectful to Sag to have secrets with another woman about her marriage. He should be talking to Sag about this stuff now. And even if it hadn't, this contact should be POJA'd and that agreement should be respected and withheld. BUT.. not with demands or threats of divorce, and most especially not with statements like "I think my guilt is more painful than your hurt." What an enormous lovebuster.

I regret to say that I stayed in touch with the OW for several years after the affair. Our conversations were highly disrespectful to my H and I should not have done it. My H did not deserve that. In the end, she tried to contact my H again on the sly. He promptly told me about it, bless his heart.

Melody,


I agree completely. I think/hope that in discovering this site, and reading/implementing the practices....she will understand why that statement and 'demands or threats' are harmful to the M.

As we all say...recovery is a process.


Bob and Melody,



I really DO understand this. I needed it both when we were engaged and again when we were separated and I found out about his EA. Luckily, when we were engaged, I had a really good girlfriend who supported me....and after we had separated, I knew that it was too risky to turn to a man.

Please, if you can, try to understand this from my perspective for a moment. During the emotional abuse involved in my M (not saying or implying anything about anyone else's M), I needed support against that, and could have REALLY used some practical information. My relationship with OM started innocently with that. My exH didn't think there was a problem with our M. He thought there was a problem with ME. (Which there was <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />...but there was also a problem with our M) I could not trust exH to 'protect' me or 'honor' me or 'cherish' me. Thus, I could not turn to him. So I naively (and arrogantly - b/c I truly believed I would NEVER have an A) turned to OM for support and advice. That led to an EA....which then led to a PA. By the time you are in the EA, you are fogged enough to rationalize any poor choice after that. I guess that's what I meant when I said why put your hand near the flame when you know you could get burned.

One way I could have prevented the A would have been to turn to a counselor....or a good same sex friend....or a support group....or a church group....or a priest.... instead of OM.

There are many people who have been through our situations. As is evidenced by the number of people on this board. In making the choice of who someone should get support from, I think that it's more protective to the M to choose from the category above....rather than a person of the opposite sex. For the exact reasons that are outlined in MY situation, and also in Sag's situation. It can (not necessarily will ) lead to something unhealthy.

I'm not chiding anyone who did turn to someone of the opposite sex. Nor am I saying that it always leads to an unhealthy outcome. But I'm just saying it's a slippery slope, and we all want to protect our M's from the devastation of another A. Choosing support from a healthy 'low risk' source is one way we can protect ourselves and our M's.

As always, it's just my personal opinion.