Melody....that was really touching. You have my honest respect.

Hey LIT

Its clear Sag's H's relationship has become unhealthy at least, and so perhaps the dynamics affecting my own situation do not apply any longer to his. But I write to explain why I ADVISE an alliance between BS and OP Spouse where possible as it worked so fantastically well in my situation.

I really DO understand this. I needed it both when we were engaged and again when we were separated and I found out about his EA. Luckily, when we were engaged, I had a really good girlfriend who supported me....and after we had separated, I knew that it was too risky to turn to a man.
No, LIT, I don;t think you DO understand. This situation is not about getting support in crisis, it is about the UNIQUE alliance that can and SHOULD form between BS' who SERIOUSLY want to rescue their marriage/relationship.

I confided in my best friend of twenty five years through my darkest days, but while he was UNLIMITED in sympathy and care he had little experience in such situations and he loved Squid as he did me and could not discuss her darkest failings without tears ( to his eternal credit !).

Folks on HERE could offer empathy and REAL practical advice but add no additional FACTS to my situation.

OM GF was positioned to basically execute MB in OMs life FULLY SUPPORTING my objectives because they were also HER objectives: permanent NC and resoration of relationships if possible. It is why I wrote that if a person has not experienced such a fantastic alliance during infidelity they could not understand how useful it is. No-one on earth, not even Steve Harley could offer the kind of anti-infidelity assitance than an eagerly recovering OM GF or OM spouse.

It is not like turning primarily to a friend of the opposite sex for intimation from ones existing circle of friends or acquiantances IMO.

Please, if you can, try to understand this from my perspective for a moment. During the emotional abuse involved in my M (not saying or implying anything about anyone else's M), I needed support against that, and could have REALLY used some practical information. My relationship with OM started innocently with that. My exH didn't think there was a problem with our M. He thought there was a problem with ME. (Which there was ...but there was also a problem with our M) I could not trust exH to 'protect' me or 'honor' me or 'cherish' me. Thus, I could not turn to him. So I naively (and arrogantly - b/c I truly believed I would NEVER have an A) turned to OM for support and advice. That led to an EA....which then led to a PA. By the time you are in the EA, you are fogged enough to rationalize any poor choice after that. I guess that's what I meant when I said why put your hand near the flame when you know you could get burned.

I could understand how your example might apply if OP spouse was a friend before the affair, but in cases like mine where there was no previous relationship between BS and OP spouse I see far less chance of intimacy leading to an EA/PA, though that tenet is tested somewhat by SAG's H's seemingly innapropriate behaviour with OM GF.

One way I could have prevented the A would have been to turn to a counselor....or a good same sex friend....or a support group....or a church group....or a priest.... instead of OM.

As I hope I have explained an alliance with OP spouse is nor for 'support' , its a uniquely practical and effective affair killing alliance. None of the examples you cite could have helped kill Squids affair like my liason with OM GF did IMO.

There are many people who have been through our situations. As is evidenced by the number of people on this board. In making the choice of who someone should get support from, I think that it's more protective to the M to choose from the category above....rather than a person of the opposite sex. For the exact reasons that are outlined in MY situation, and also in Sag's situation. It can (not necessarily will ) lead to something unhealthy.

Again, its not about "seeking support somewhere". I am sure I would be divorced today if not for the alliance OM GF and I forged for a while, and she stated she would have left OM imediately too.

I'm not chiding anyone who did turn to someone of the opposite sex. Nor am I saying that it always leads to an unhealthy outcome. But I'm just saying it's a slippery slope, and we all want to protect our M's from the devastation of another A. Choosing support from a healthy 'low risk' source is one way we can protect ourselves and our M's.

Once again I hope I have explained the very different dynamics in the situation of an aliance between a BS and OM Spouse. It is not the "choosing of an opposite sex confidante". Sag's sit is the first I have seen where BS and OM spouse have taken things too far and it HAS made me reconsider a lot, but I would still advise and BS to form an alliance with OM spouse where possible.

Bob,

It's the sympathy part, sharing part, and feeling part that I feel are risks. I agree that in your situation, it turned out differently than Sag's and mine. But I do still see it as a risk for some BS's who are extremely vulnerable, and don't think they should POJA b/c they feel that their WS should put up with 'whatever comes to them' - since the WS was the one who had the A.

As for my stance on policing, or upholding honesty, and other MB principles. I have NO problem with that part. In fact, I think in that case, it's good to have an alliance. And productive. It's when it crosses into "feelings" that I feel it's a risk.


Actually, my GF was a FBS who had recently saved her M from infidelity as well. Granted, she didn't know about MB, but she was part of a Catholic support group where many of the principles were the same.

Again - as for POLICING, I completely support. I'm just talking about the feelings part.


I completely agree here. To me, this is about policing and implementing MB principles. Totally in support of this.


But IMVHO, there is STILL a risk IF it progresses to feelings. And coming from a FWS perspective on this one, any risk is too much for me. I want to do anything I can to protect my M.

Perhaps we could agree that it is appropriate when certain boundaries are in place. Those boundaries being that the relationship is used to police NC and implement MB principles. But if it crosses into a 'feeling' realm, then the relationship should be ended.

Even you said that you feel it could have been detrimental to your recovery if you had continued contact with OM's girlfriend. Some people are just not as strong as you <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />(and I include my former self in that!)

I apologize if I seem like I'm beating this into the ground. I am just very sensitive to it b/c my exH's OW, while not my OM's W, was also a BS who at first supported his trying to work on our M....and adhered to MB principles, even posting on these boards. But somewhere along the line, their relationship went too far.

It's a tough call. Honestly.

And I really do respect where you are coming from Bob.

My red flags on this is that sag is a YEAR out of this affair...AND has established NO contact for that year...

my fear is her being hostage by feelins of self loathing which her husband counts on to accomodate and facilitate this affair...

his planning and looking forward to take her out to dinner is much too much...

ARK

Fully agree ark. Just wanted to state how this unhealthy relationahip may have BEGUN as a very anti-affair one, like the one I had with OM GF for a while.

All opposite sex relationships are risky, even BS/OP S ones as this sit proves, but my point is the benefits can outweight the risks sometimes, as in my case. Maybe my sit was unique, dunno, I only ever was in MY own sit.

Agree with Bob, the benefits of such an alliance FAR outweigh any potential risks. My alliance with the OW busted up the affair; Bob's alliance with the OP's GF busted up his W's affair. That kind of unique weapon can be found nowhere else. Bob's case is the rule, not the exception.

Now, I agree in this case it has gone too far, but this should not be used as an example that such alliances are not healthy to marriages. More often than not, they are.

I for one don't have much concern about contact with WS OP spouses.....when the affair is occuring and continued contact is suspected or even the known...

all of my stance on this is the fact we are year out of no contact........

AND
sags fears of standing up for wedding vows which NOW at this time hold great meaning....

I guess it's time to get to them meat and potatos about this...

what does sags husband say when sag says...

wooo bad move for you to be in such contact
and
secret emails..

what is his response to your points of his actions endagering the marriage..

ark

I really thank everyone for their response, the insight and information have been very valuable to me. I have talked to my husband and wrote him a letter explaining that I want our marriage, I love him, I want to work on our relationship! I have let guilt prevent me from seriously working on our marriage. I have realized I need to be there for him, I need to communicate and most of all not judge him or the future of our marriage based on how he is feeling on a day to day basis. I let him know that I need to be more receptive when listening to him about his feelings...and hopefully he will feel safer in communicating his thoughts to me...it is important that WE learn to both be open with one another.

I have apologzed to him for my erratic thinking that our marriage will not work if he continues to talk to the OM girlfriend. I reacted selfishly...however I do know it is wrong and is not healthy for the future of our marriage. I have let him know that I would really appreciate it if he would not talk or email her secretivly. I let him know the seriousness of the relationship and emotional dependency he is developing with her. I let him know it hurts my feelings he is reaching outside our marrige to "feel good". I told him we need to come to an agreement that will make us both happy, I want to work this out.

His response is that he feels the same. He has not said that he will stop communicating with her...he is still thinking about what he wants to do as far as talking to her. I know he realizes it is wrong, and he feels very stongly that he could never cross that line to a PA. I do not think he realizes the seriousness of his emotional dependency on her. We are talking about this, he knows how I feel, and I hope he will make a choice in favor of our marriage.
Thanks again for any input.
SAG

Accoring to Shirley Glass in her book "Not Just Friends" a platonic friendship edges into an Emotional Affair when the following three elements are present:

* Emotional intimacy. Transgressors share more of their 'inner self, frustrations and triumphs than with their spouses. They are on a slippery slope when they begin sharing the dissatisfaction with their marriage with a co-worker.

* Secrecy and deception. For example, 'They neglect to say, 'We meet every morning for coffee.' Once the lying and secrecy starts, the intimacy shifts farther away from the marriage.

* Sexual chemistry. Even though the two may not act on the chemistry, there is at least an unacknowledged sexual attraction.

If there is anything about the opposite sex friendship that is not 100% exposed to the spouse .... the line has been crossed, especially if the growing “friendship” is kept secret from the spouse. If ANY husband or wife finds him/her self editing the truth and keeping facts about their life from their spouse (no matter how small or insignificant)...the line has been crossed. One must be aware when they are beginning to leave their spouse out of the loop as far as what things they feel for, say to and/or do with the opposite sex friend.

I say that we monitor sag's husband.