mrs. wondering...

I applaud your post...

ARK^^

chatabout..
have you had std testing..
I advise you to do so......

ARK

dear chatabouts husband..

be very clear in your thinking that the sex you refer to..

is the easy part...
sexual acts
false precidence and omnipitance placed on acts that are wrought from no emotional value...
lacking honor respect and the emotion love let alone true tenderness...

you know the kind that is a true intimate gift from God himself above...existing in committed respectful matrimony

for one thing is true...if it was as good as you claim you would not be able to make a mockery of your own actions and hers..
but would hold them dear to your heart..

your verbal references to them..speak volumes of the lack of any real emotion, connection, or value...

you degrade yourself and your OW...in an attempt to hurt your wife..

it is your own self loathing turned outwards....

sex that you speak of is a dime a dozen...
and you the speaker transparent of depth

BUT it does accurately reflect the acts...and their worth..

make no mistake there is no doubt your tainted words hold spears that hurt and hit straight in to the heart...

but after spoken...and her heart breaks....

the blood remains on your hands...

be careful what you wish..
for you may end up with a such a person in the end...
as you so desire...

and you will be lost to the light of the world...

I'm sure your other woman would love to know that you use her...
just as you use your wife..
to try to make you feel better....

I invite you to post and work through your pain..
for surely a person capable of such pain to others....must be in great pain themselves...

I hope you find enough value in yourself to stop the chaos..

ARK

At times I love him and other times I hate him. He saw me
on the board last night and said "make sure you let everyone
know of your flaws.." I said not a problem..He of course blames me for driving him to this affair as he has been mad
at me for a long time (a year and a half) I basiclly was in
charge of all the finances, savings accounts and credit cards. Over the period of about 7 years I was borrowing from
Peter to pay Paul. We had 3 young children, daycare, 2 loan
payments ect..anyway I was always trying to consolidate (without his knowledge) and fix things and I only made it worse - basiclly he thought we had $100,000 in the savings
account (we had $2000) and thought we owed about $60,000
which was more like $250,000. All of the bills were barely
being paid but we didn't do bankrupcty and pulled ourselves
through - although we are not rich but now have money in savings and he is in charge of all the accounts - in which
about 7 years ago I begged him to take charge of...anyway
this is when I finally figured out he loved me because he didn't leave me and our relationship actually became stronger.
He met the OW in Dec. but didn't start "seeing her till May"
he says nothing negative about her. She broke it off with him a couple of weeks ago. He said he is still thinking about her, ect..he says that he only saw her a couple of times a week - but from all the talk about Sex - my guess
is that they were doing everything in the book a ton of times a meeting...I don't think he wants to leave me as
a week ago when they had their last talk (1:30 a.m. in the
morning) I packed up all his stuff and put it in the garage.
He made me put it all back. Also he keeps talking about moving out but hasn't made the move yet...I am just going
to wait and see. I have also decided not to let him see
this board (he won't be able to figure it out since he isn't
computer savvy) I need all of your support to get this man
out of the FOG. I wish I could install some fog lights on
him.....

Thanks everyone again,
Chat

Time for a NO CONTACT letter in which he tells her that he will not ever see or communicate with her again in his lifetime. Then, all means of his communication with her need to be shut off. That means changing cell numbers.

I agree with him not coming to the BOARD while you develop your plan.

Try to get the book Surviving an Affair ASAP.

Part of PLAN A is for you to apologize for your secretiveness with him. I understand, CHAT. I was also guilty of keeping secrets from my FWH.

Regardless of your flaws, that is no excuse for him having an A. A FOGGY WS, as you are beginning to understand, will try to justify his A by blaming it all on you.

You can gauge his sincerity by asking for the NO CONTACT letter which really is a must.

Chat...what type of a man/husband was he prior to the A? Before the A would he have ever said anything so cruel to you?

Most of the BS's here realize now that even though we are not responsible for our spouse having an A. That we did contribute to the state of the M before the A.

My FWH even in the fog never thank goodness blamed me for the A (though did allude that I helped put him in the state of mind to be susceptible) and never compared me unfavorably to the OW. Even though he didn't do that...my self esteem was still shattered.

Again if your H wasn't a cruel, ugly man prior to the A there is hope for him. If he's always been this way, I'd run for the hills.

If this is not the "real" him then you need to work on yourself (Plan A).

I would also do whatever you can to have him read the MB principles here (even if you don't want him reading your posts), would start reading the A books and try to get an appointment with the Harley's.

In addition my FWH and I both went to IC and MC.

We too had some personality issues that we each needed to deal with prior to true recovery beginning...I was a control freak and tended to obsess over things and my FWH was a passive agressive, conflict avoider.

Untreated these personality traits allowed all sorts of things to build up over the years in our M. I am sure that the issue of your finances probably brewed and festered over the years and allowed your husband's to feel somewhat (unjustifyably so) entitled and deserving of his OW.

Don't let him convince you of that...but on the other hand understand that you both will have to work on yourselves.

Best wishes..

Finally Learning & ark~

Awww...Shucks Guys, thanks for the "alley-oops", it means a lot coming from a couple of pros like yourselves...

Chat~

From the sound of your last post, I think that you would be wise to see your doctor about some antidepressants. What you are going through is really difficult and AD's may really take the edge off...just something to consider...

Your "flaws" are of no significance where your H's A is concerned...Sure, he would love for you to shoulder the blame for his TERRIBLE judgement regarding his own behavior, nobody wants to own a mistake of that grand a proportion, but he is an adult and it was HIS CHOICE to have an A...you had NOTHING to do with that! Please tell him that an A is NEVER a solution to marital problems, and believing that is tantamount to cutting off your leg because of an ingrown toenail! IGNORE HIS FOG BABBLE, because that is exactly what it is! The more practical choices he could have made were to have sought marital counseling with you, or even divorce...an A is NOT on the list of ways to fix a broken marriage...an A is a selfish coward's approach!

Chat, what are your specific reasons for not wanting your H to read and post here? These boards were HUGELY instrumental in the faster lifting of my own fog and the best beginning of recovery that our marriage could have had. My H sent me a link to a particular post, as he had been only reading here at the time...it was me who first posted here...not only did I get a lot of much needed support with withdrawal, but also some very deserved "2 x 4's" that set me straight about all of my rationalizations and justifications. (that's what your husband is doing right now by blaming you...) My H and I wouldn't be where we are today without Marriage Builders, for so many reasons...It really helped us to read the stories of others that paralleled our own...reading those allowed us to discuss our own issues in the third person which gave us some objectivity and prevented emotion from boiling over at times...this board has moved mountains for many here...I hope that you guys can allow it to do the same for you...

Blessings,

Mrs. Wondering

Mrs. Wondering:

My FWH was DEEP IN THE FOG..

Although a very intelligent man, I gave him SAA and he said "that stuff doesn't apply to me"...

Steve Harley told me, "you can't be a teacher, if there's no student"...

I don't know. Chat's H sounds a lot like mine was..full of resentment over what I had done to him, using that stuff as justification for his A...

The major focus for me was PLAN A. It was important for me not to Love Bust by being demanding. Being demanding would have included directing him to this site when he was not ready....

Chat:

IMHO,it would be helpful for you to start thinking about the ENs that you failed to meet which left your relationship vulnerable to the entrance of the OW..

I agree with the others that it would also be helpful to consider whether the cruelness being evidenced by your WH is new for him...

Pig as it was used here is not an acronym but an animal, as in he is a pig, oink, oink.

FOG = stuff you cannot see through and makes (usually a ws-wayward spouse) confused
IMHO = In My Humble Opinion
IMNSHO - In My Not So Humble Opinion

Check out Acronyms, Smilies, UBB Codes

So how did his getting BJ's from the other woman fix your financial problems? Was she paying him?

Chat:

This information should prove helpful to you if you can't get your hands on SURVIVING AN AFFAIR right away:

What are Plan A and Plan B

Emotional Needs

chat you still haven't answered if this over the top cruelity is new or not..

also how did he treat you after finding out the financial stuff...when you two were working on it together..

it's hard to help you if people don't know the underlying person pre-affair.......

ark

Mimi...

I thought the same type things regarding this site and SAA in the beginning...but it was the 2 x 4's and the reading here on the boards about my situation being so "cookie cutter" that finally brought me around. My H NEVER forced me to come to this site, just provided a link in an unrelated email AND he just left SAA lying around the house without mentioning it...I picked it up and began reading it on one of my most miserable days...I needed any relief that I could get my hands on based on how I was feeling. The OM in my situation had broken up with me just as Chat's H's OW has done to him...the things that he is saying to her are the same things that I said to my H...these things occured during my withdrawal period, which is why I guess I see Mr. Chat as being in the same stage that I was...I guess we would need more info. to know exactly where he is at this point...One of the greatest things about this site is being able to get viewpoints from both sides...

Chat, does your H have an understanding of why OW broke it off that you are aware of??? Can you give us some idea of the kinds of things that he says regarding his "feelings" of that breakup?

Mrs. Wondering

I just got back from my lunch hour and purchased Surviving
and Affair..do I let my WH know I am reading it, or keep him
in the dark....
O.K. was he cruel before - I'd say yes - I used to be very
overweight and he was embarrassed by me and wouldn't take me out to his softball games ect. I have been at a slender
weight now for the last 2 years and not to brag look pretty
damn good. He is the kind of person who has always blamed me for everything that is wrong - the kids are overweight- my fault I feed them. The house isn't clean enough- my fault
because I am not strict enough with the kids (17,15 and 11)
ect....He has never taken me out with him. We got married
young me 18 he 21- he went to the bars for 3 years and when
I was old enough we started having kids and then I was stuck
at home. We don't go out to dinner, vacations are rare because he is a cheap [censored] - before because he was saving his thousands of dollars (by the way he never had any plans he shared for those- so I thought he would never know) and
cheap now because I have wrecked us financially. Although since May 2004 - I have changed all of my spending habits--sheesh I don't even get my hair done anymore to save us money- thank God that I am not gray yet - although after this could be.
The breakup coming from him was that she was "freaking" that
I would find out and also my WH wanted more to the relationship then she did....I have told him that I am just
waiting for her to want more of that "great" sex and look
him up again....I know that he still wants her - although he says he still loves me and by the way our"sex" is the
greatest ever (but a little late as he says)

Chat

Chat,
Honestly, you really need to throw your husband flat out on his [censored]. As you are showing him the door, hand him the legal separation papers, and the child support order as well. Tell him you will gladly rip them up when he decides to show you some respect, and your children as well... gheez.

It's amazing what some people will tolerate at times in their lives. It speaks volumes about how powerful love, and committment really can be.

Rook~

If all BSes felt this way then the divorce rate would be higher than the infidelity rate, and all of us here know that that isn't the way things are...

I'm so glad that my husband saw our marriage and family as worth saving...I respect, admire and love him so much for saving me from very destructive self, preventing our DD from having divorced parents and behaving as the responsible adult in our household about literally EVERYTHING!!!

I believe that Chat's husband is in withdrawal and that she needs to implement Plan A immediately. The point of this board is Marriage Building after all...

Chat...

I don't think that you should hide that you are reading SAA...but don't suggest that he read it either, just casually leave it lying around as my H did, and maybe he will choose to read it of his own accord. If he does, and you notice, don't say anything about it until he says something to you...right now he will probably be defensive about anything regarding his A...You want to create a home environment from which he will feel safe to share with you and be open to you...those are the first steps, IMHO...

Mrs. Wondering

chatabout..
I think that you need to consider moving to a plan B rather quickly...

that while plan B is best followed by a good consistant plan A...in your case you husband in my opinion shows a long history of disrespectful behavior...and MORE alarming is your long standing history of ACCEPTING such behavior in your life...

you are looking a the creation of totally new marriage with this guy ....in which you are both partners....and equal in respecting eachother...

doesn't sound like you ever had that...and people here would be unable to assist you to returning to your described pre affair marriage..and pray that you yourself want no part in returning to that either...

how does he treat the children and even more importantly
HOW does he treat YOU INFRONT of the children...?

how do you feel about plan B..

ARK

Hey Ark, how would you go about plan B while living in the same house? I would love to learn...normally I would feel bad for asking a question for my own personal learning experience on someone else's thread, but I would be willing to bet that Chat may want to know too...so please enlighten us o' wise one... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />(I am really seriously asking, just couldn't resist the urge to be silly...sorry! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />)

Mrs. Wondering

You can not plan B in the same home...either he or she GOES

Plan B is the line drawn in the sand of what is no longer acceptable.....

period..

no one has ever done a true plan B with anyone while living toghether..unless you geto out the white tape and tape everything in half...........:)

I am very concerned about what chat's children have learned on how to treat mom and their future spouses..
his control issues over money and no vacations etc...
insidious and disrespectful

ark

I agree that poor treatment of mom is very harmful to children!


And thanks for the lesson on Plan B...that's what I thought, but I'm always open for learning something new...I usually do here everyday...I LOVE IT!

Mrs. "Dubya"

Sorry Wonderings, perhaps I should have said you need to Plan B your husband. Sometimes, that point is just too delicate for my likings. In some point of the MB process you also have to apply the Tough Love process. This is clearly one of those situations. This is clearly an example of a person that needs to desperately protect whatever love may be left in her for him.