Are you ready to ramble? My love bank got a transfusion just in the nick of time.

The past couple of weeks have been horrible. Awful. Really bad. The ups and downs were way out of control. A week and a half ago I thought I'd had a new all-time low. This past week I had an even newer all-time low. Who'd have thunk? Not me.

Yeah, I know - I know the whole undercover thing is slightly silly but it makes me feel better so bear with? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Just check out the old posts if you're scratching your heads... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Read on.

During the past month of very deep, dark Plan-BONP (Bizness Only Nothing Personal) Mr. J. called once a week leaving looooong messages saying nothing, and send at least one e-mail a week also saying little. In return I did - Nothing.

This week I needed (or thought I needed anyway) a biz. item attended to by Mr. J. I sent an e-mail and got no response. For no good reason I thought Mr. J. was punishing me for going dark on him for a month.

I called him at the office and the conversation started out very nicely. All biz. no personal. And then -- it got personal. More than TWO hours later we were still having the you and me talk and Mr. J. was doing most of that.

Luckily my other line rang and I had to take the call and said I had to go. Mr. J. was b*llsh*t. Too bad. He left me.

Well while I was on the other call Mr. J. sent two very commodious e-mails and called me back. He really wanted to talk. I told him what the boundary was again and he couldn't, wouldn't but I think couldn't let go. He talked a lot and said he would send another e-mail.

Skipping ahead quite a bit, Mr. J. and I spent almost 7 hours on the phone and Mr. J also managed to find the time to send some VERY long, very heavy e-mail. The points he raised are something like this - in no particular order:


Yes, he lied to me about OW. No shocker there! No problem for Miss Jinx. I expected it. But what I didn't expect was an apology. He apologized and TOOK RESPONSIBILITY! Said he did it because he wanted to protect me or because he didn't think he could trust me and that he knew it was wrong and that it was him and not me.

He really does love me in an oh God I don't want to live without you but I don't know how I could ever live with you way.

He thinks about me and misses me every day.

He is looking for reasons for us to stay apart. He is looking for reasons to be angry.


His family doesn't hate me and they don't think I'm crazy. They don't know the truth because he is still lying to them, but they don't think I'm crazy. He said that he only said that to hurt me because he knew it would.

Well it did. It hurt a lot. On so many levels.

Quote: Honey, they ask about you every time I'm with them. There's not a single conversation that takes place where they don't ask about you and how you're doing.

I don't know if I can believe it, but the gag order was lifted as well. If I want to talk to them, Mr. J. doesn't have a problem with me doing that. Though he didn't know what I would say and honestly, neither do I... and then he decided that I was threatening him and he lost it a little.

When all the temper was gone from the first talk, what Mr. J. said he couldn't trust me about wasn't affair-related at all. He is so self-contradictory! He said that he didn't feel like he could trust me because I'd cut myself off from him.

I said that's only been for a month. He said it's been since February. GOD! That's when he left me. I said well what do you expect? You left me. Tough sh*t you felt cut off -- YOU LEFT ME. I didn't leave you.

Well I guess I finally know what it's like to be everybody else who ISN't close to you.

Huh?

You only share yourself with your closest friends. Everyone else just gets the nice-looking shell. But anything important about who you are and what is important to you as a person -- anything like that you keep only for the people you're close with.

Well why in the world would I want to share myself with people I'm NOT close with?

I guess I'm just saying I know what it's like now not to be .... privy to all that stuff - the exciting magical stuff. You've been evasive. You don't tell me anything that's going on with you. You don't tell me if you're all right or not all right.

YES! That's right. BECAUSE YOU LEFT ME! You. Left. Me. You don't get to leave me and have me. I don't want to be just a pal. I'm not going to pretend that's OK with me. If we are going to have any future together we can talk about you and me and if not, I don't want to discuss anything personal about myself with you. We can have a kind of cold and biz-like relationship and that's it.

And I don't even think there's that much for us to talk about that isn't personal so I don't think we really need to talk to each other.

He started exclaiming, There's a ton of stuff for us to talk about!

He doesn't trust me and doesn't know how he ever will again. Well since I don't trust him and never will again I figure that makes us even. To me this was just WS babble. I let it roll...

The weekend I went dark on him because the pain was so unbearable -- he had an unbearable weekend of his own missing me. He spent days visiting my favorite places (alone) and eating my favorite foods (alone) and couldn't bring himself to go anywhere romantic because the pain of missing me and having so many good memories was so unbearable.

And then he spent quality time discussing how he wound up thinking about our last months together and how horrible they were and how he hated himself and just wanted to get away.

He was extremely pissed off about me taking ME away. Later he was less angry and more plaintive. He was genuinely hurt and scared - no more Jinx. Now what was he going to do?

He has had second thoughts and third thoughts (a few times) about us reconciling.

He said he doesn't think he's had any sexual attraction for me since he left BUT when I asked about the rather obvious erection he's sporting when he's around me his response was well if you already know, you feel it and see it why are you asking?

Well if you know I know, then why are you telling me you're not interested?

It's just something that happens.

It's just something that happens whenever you're near me or touch me?

Yes but it's just something that happens.

It just happens when you're near every other woman?

No. Not really. But that doesn't mean anything. It's just something that happens around you. It happens.

But you're not attracted? OK. I can live with that. I think I kind of like it that way. Your body is telling you something anyway. I'm glad because you know, I'm pretty damn hot!

Oh you think so do you?

Yeah. I know so.

You do have a beautiful body. Honey, you're beautiful. I've never denied that. I'll bet guys are drooling for you...

I don't want someone else. I want you.


and he listened........


Dig it - sex with the OW is not the carnival ride previously purported. Frequency isn't big either. First answer to "Having sex a lot?" with no pauses was "Not so much." Then there was some scrambling with "Everything works. I'm a red-blooded male" talk... And at the end of the sex she's still - the OW. She's not me.

And Mr. J. agreed with me, at the end of the day, the people we're lonely and yearning for are each other.

He misses everything about me. He actually had written a list! He talked about how so much of what he likes and what he wants and his own attractions are really just reflections of me and my influences. (Knew it! Screaming that here for months.)

It's almost like for all my problems, the post-pregnancy depression, the being so sick without knowing why, the crisis over becoming a haus frau - despite all that, he has no spark. He misses my quirks and interests and the way I try anything new and introduce him to things.

Folks, I feel really vindicated on this score. He is running out of interesting material. He used mine up already and all that is left is bland cottage-cheesy Mr. J. He misses me but it sounds a lot like he misses what being with me made/gave HIM. Reminds me of how Dorry's Sprint described missing her...

And that makes us even too. Because I like bland, cottage-cheesy Mr. J. I liked the way he let himself try things because I wanted to. So I could tell him that I miss him terribly.

AND, he also said he missed the person I was - before I started trying to make him happy. He liked the feisty girl. He liked the fast girl. He hated me on medication and he hated me in therapy and he HATED that I tried so hard to make him happy. He liked me better the way I used to be when I painted the walls orange and electric green. He hated my walls but he adored me.

Which I'd already figured out for myself too.

I got to tell him a lot of the same stuff back. That I loved him for who he was and I didn't want him to change. And I didn't want or need any of that fancy shmancy stuff he kept buying. I just wanted him the way he was. Plain old humble man. Not the stuffed shirt who's such a - starts with P and rhymes with Ick.

and he listened........

I said I still thought there could be a future for us and that I didn't even think it would be so much work to fix things. For us, possibly, deciding to try again could be the hardest part. But if there was no future for us, I was prepared to never speak to him again because I'm ready to stop hurting.

and he listened to all that too. And contributed some and he could have argued, but he didn't. He'd already made his pre-emptive there's no hope for us statement anyway... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Seven + hours of talking and long e-mails aren't all going to fit here. I think this is a good stopping place. C'mon everyone. Jump on! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Slam, support, pray. Warn. Admonish. Enjoy.

I think we may have reached a true turning point. But I'm scared to really believe it. We'll have to see. I'm prepared to go dark again. Today, in my best survivor fashion -- I changed my stupid lock. For real. He can't just come in anymore. I'm taking care.

and...

He said he misses the sound of me laughing.

Jinx

Lots of talking...

Did he say he was going to make it right? Or was this long hours of talking just about what he needs and how dare you take yourself out of his life and not let him cake eat?

Til he says he will do it what it takes to make it right...back to biz as usual hun.

This guy sounds like a prime candidate for Plan B.

Sounds like he is starting to come around. Don't back off until he has NC with OW. However, it sounds like there is real hope.

Hiya BrambleRose!

I'm not sure you read the whole post? (It was long.) I have been doing a very dark, modified plan B. "Biz as usual" if there is no future for us is exactly what I had to say to him. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Also, I think there is an option to consider that his putting in so much effort can be considered an action. Yes, let him be measured by his actions. So let's see if there are any changes before we decide it's crap.

Mr. J., though a Wayward, was sharing something personal about himself and he did that for a long time. He was expressing feelings and not really needs. He did talk about my needs though and then he listened to what I said about what he said.

You seem to be inferring from my stating he showed some temper that there was attacking and blustering going on when there was none. He showed some temper. His voice got louder and terse at times. B*llsh*t for Mr. J. isn't typical MB WS acting out. It just isn't...

There was no yelling and actually, there was no LBing. There was no arguing aside from my brief argument about the erections. Just want to be sure you're reading what I wrote the way I wrote it... I'm happy to clarify <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Please don't start a fire where there isn't one K? Thanks!

Jinx

Uh, not sure where you are getting all that.

Hun, I read the whole post.

Your husband spent hours of jabbering at you, and did not so much as once say that he was going to do a darn thing to fix it.

Either you are in Plan B or you aren't. You aren't. Are you dark? Yes, and thats fine. But you just gave him a big darn fix, and I'd bet money on it that he's no plans to end the affair.

What I see in your thread is a man whining about not getting to cake eat.

Why do I think he's a candidate for plan B? Becauseif he wants you so badly, he won't be able to take it. Write your letter and let him figure out how to fix things.

Until he is presenting you with a plan to fix it, I don't see anything but a WS trying to get his way.

BR, OK. I see you have formed an opinion. That's cool.

Of course you've been reading ten minutes and Mr. J. and I shared some very decent and constructive (though no, not entirely positive by any stretch) communication for much longer than that yesterday.

Yes, one month of nothing is dark. And he got next to nothing. Unless you consider forwarding one phone message from the IRS pearls from my platter...

Maybe he did get a fix. What I know he got is this - he heard, acknowledged and understood that there are consequences to his actions. He'd heard it all before but now he's getting it.

I'm big into running. I like the marathon and the ultra. I like training even more than I like the racing. I want the real deal and that is going to take time and patience. I am not going to give up on my goal (to finish) just because the course is long and the road is hard.

Instead, let's see will there be motivational spots. Some change. A reason to continue a difficult endeavor... I have no expectation that suddenly, Mr. J. will say, Hey! I changed my mind. Game on! and he'll kick the OW
to the curb.

That's not even the standard pattern for recovered marriages here. Yeah, I am pleased with how I am handling my modified plan B. I think I'm doing a very good job. It doesn't hurt me to listen. How exactly would I know if the plan was successful if I didn't listen?

Does Mr. J. have to break down the door and make some crap macho display of false devotion? That's not appealing to me. I'd rather have slow, small meaningful progress. That's me.

And in the end if Mr. J. does not return, well, I now have something that a lot of BS never get. I know he loves me. He loved me then. He loves me still. I know when the affair was and wasn't. I know it was the first. I know it's still going on and I know he's still not happy. Not with himself and not with his choices.

That's a pretty big gift of peace that I didn't have 100% before yesterday.
Jinx

Hewwwoooo Jinxy <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Well awesome on the Plan B, and the progress, - be ready to go dark again if Mr. J doesn't make progress on coming home!! We've talked about that though.

He sure didn't like that you cut off whatever he was getting from ya!! Be ready to cut that off again if you need to - but I know you are ready for that and that you have told him you are ready for that!!

I don't have another song to get into your mind right now unless one of the kids song's playing right now counts - but Billy Idol is way better than what I am hearing LOL

Dang! Now I'm all Name Game songing! Dorry Dorry Bo Borry. Bonanna Fanna Fo Forri. Me Mie Moe Morry. DORRY!

Yep. He didn't like being without whatever it is that he gets from me. Still have no clue. You have no clue - I don't get it. Not sure I ever will. Maybe it's a guy thing? Does Sprint have a clue?

But anyway I am ready to be dark again. Dig it! I changed the lock! By myself! He has no key. Awwww. Isn't that too bad? NO! He left me! No key for him.

Jinx

I'm sorry, thought you said:


Listen, you aren't in Plan B, so I don't have a problem with you talking to him. Thats fine.

yes, its great that he shared all that stuff you.

And I think, he'd problably cave to a really good Plan B.

this is Marriage Builders after all...so I gave you a marriage builders based answer.

The biggest mistake I've seen in the years I've been here, is that the BS gets excited about "progress" too soon, and lets the WS come home before the WS is ready/willing to do the work.

I had my own false recovery hun, so I know what its about.

I think we can all agree that with her talking to Mr. J she isn't in plan b anymore...but I know she did a dark plan B. So maybe she failed - I know she will be ready to put in a good plan B is place if Mr. J doesn't figure things out very quickly during these conversations. I agree he is getting a fix - but due to all the Jinxy has posted in the past and what I know - this is a huge step for Mr. J - feelings have not been discussed in any conversations previous. the door might be opening, and if he isn't coming home - then back to a dark plan B where no failure takes place.

I am not up to read on all MB plans, as i never had to do a Plan B, and so would never advise on how it goes - I do agree with BR that he would react to a GOOD plan B. But I do see this as a huge step - in what direction? i don't know. But Mr. J seems to be realizing life isn't so great on the other side as he thought it would be?

Maybe I am rambling, or too close to the sitch with Jinxy...

I'm not saying for a second she's wrong for talking to him.

She's DARK, which isn't either Plan A or plan B. You can call her talk with him Plan A.

Plan B would probably get this guy's attention really fast.

BrambleRose,

Yes, in extreme good-naturedness and some gentle cheekiness, I did invite people to speak up but I did not invite acrimony, lack of consideration or snottyness.

I am telling the board what my experience was. I value the experience you bring to the thread but please remember that it is/was your experience. Not mine.

I ask that you show me the courtesy of learning from your experience and wisdom, or not, as I perceive them to benefit me. Not how YOU perceive they should or will benefit me.

It would be ungrateful for me to disregard your offering. Of course it's very rude and inconsiderate of you to disregard my points and push your own agenda.

You and I don't agree on what constitutes plan B. I don't need to argue with you. Your outright denial of my plan speaks for itself. I am proud of the effort I have given and am giving. You can't take that away.

I have certainly had NO recovery yet at all. How could I decree I'm having a false one before I've had any? Have you read Alice in Wonderland? May I recommend a visit to the Mad Hatter's Tea Party?

And third time's the charm. Please stop calling me "Hun". I'm sure it's not your intent; I think it's not. I hope it's not, but it seems very patronizing. Please call me Jinx, or ... Tallulah. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Thanks,
Jinx

Boy you sure can read all kinds of stuff into the written word can'tcha?

No on is patronizing you. I had the impression you thought I was attacking you. So I was trying to be friendly, since you are obviously reading all kinds of stuff into my posts that just arent there.

Oh well.

As for agenda pushing - I have none to push. I am simply going to use the MB concepts as they are meant, when I reply to anyone. This is the MB website last time I checked. I've been here a long long time and seen very many newbies misinterpret or "modify" the Plan, only to do damage to themselves.

You can choose to do whatever you want in attempting to recover your marriage. You can be proud of it. Just don't call it Plan B - and no, its not open for debate. The Harley's are pretty clear what it is. To do anything else muddies the waters for people trying to learn how to do it the MB way.

You asked for comments and you got mine. Not only have I been through false recovery as a result of taking back a husband making "progress", but I've gone on to recover my marriage by not caving until there was committment and proof by action (not words) that he meant it. He had a plan, which happend to be an MB plan, because he had counseled with SH during our false recovery and knew what he had to do.

I've been here since Dec 2000. In that time, I've seen dozens, probably hundreds, of BSs take back WSs who said some nice stuff. I could be wrong, but I don't recall any that ended in recovery...at that point. If recovery happened later, like me, it happened because the WS knew for certain that the BS was headed out the door.

So yes, I've got a pretty well formed judgement on these kinds of things. Does it mean I'm always right? Of course not.

But anyway, if what you want is applause and agreement with your points of view, then state that, instead of asking for honesty. Then I'll know that my posts aren't welcome, that you consider honesty to be rude and inconsiderate.

Not sure what you meant by the rest of your post. I've read it over several times, can't make heads or tails of what you are expecting.

Mmmmmmmmm

plan A or B or G ...don't know it matters right now Jinx ....I think you have got some peace and some anwers you have wanted for a while now.
THAT IS GOOD!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />

Of course unconditional surrender would have been the best, but hes not there yet.

Have you worked out your campaign yet? Because you have certainly hit him in the right spot!! Of course you may not want to set that out here right now <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />

LOTS of real hope here, the comparisons are starting in YOUR favour.

BrambleRose,

Desist and whoa. You're giving me a headache.

I'm expressing my responses to your posts. They are valid. They are my impressions, my experiences and my feelings. I'm not reading into your posts anything that isn't there to be read.

I have no expectation from anyone other than constructive input. I'm not taking much that's constructive from anything you've posted here tonight. I'm not willing to continue this further.

You've already sucked far too much good and needed energy from me with your incessant "I'm right and you're a fool" implications. Pitch your B-fest with someone who goes for that.

Jinx

AW,

The campaign has been clearly delineated! I told Mr. J. what I was going to tell him, then I told him, afterward I summarized what I'd told him and later we had a brief review. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

1. He can have me OR anybody else.

2. We can't be only friends. We can only be friends who are also married to each other.

3. If there is no future for us there is no need for us to have any contact with the other (other than emergencies and what I think is humane consideration) that is personal in nature. Nada. Niente.

(btw, Mr. J. did have an unexpected emergency last night - unrelated - and so he's getting a brief respite from the cold.)

4. If there is a future for us, I am willing to work toward that future with him as his equal partner.

5. If there is a future for us, I am willing to let the past live in the past. And move forward from...


I think that's about it...

Mr. J. went one whole month without hearing my voice at all. I did hear his when he left VM... That's the longest either of us have gone without speaking directly to the other since we met.

The effort brought me to new lows almost every day and I stuck with it. Mr. J. was hurt and then he was surprised he was so hurt and then he was angry and then he was hurt some more.

He's finally learning that I very much mean what I say. My plan A wasn't perfect but it was very strong. Mr. J is beginning to comprehend that I'm not running from the pain. I'm choosing to cut him off.

Essentially, I am rejecting him. Yeah, he rejected me first. So what? I'm rejecting him last. Or accepting him last. But one way or another I'm going to be the last woman in his life. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> How that last applies is up to him.

Jinx

Jinx,

I believe that you are missing a very important point. To be in Plan B you need to make that very clear to your WH via a Plan B letter. If you don't, your Plan B except for business and 7-15 hours of serious chat, are worse than doing nothing at all. Most BS's that get caught in the WS trap(yes, trap)are all aglow over the "meaningful and apologetic" claptrap that comes out of their WS's mouth.

Contact during a Plan B or really anytime after a D without a NC letter, BENEFITS THE WS NOT THE BS. You have given him the ability to gauge your emotional position and to "see" if you are still there and in essence how much more cr*p that you are willing to take.

I am sorry that you feel someone is mistreating you on this board. But let it be known that the majority of posters have earned their education by virtue of their own mistakes.
No one wants to make you sad but conversely no one wants to see the enormous hurt that BS's go through as they go on their personal rollercoaster ride called infidelity.

Best of luck and you are in my prayers.

Oh gee. Mr. J. sent two one letter and one shorter note by e-mail this morning.

What I think were the most important take-aways:

He gave me his work/travel schedule for the next two weeks. He did not give me contact numbers and I didn't ask. He said that he is not traveling with OW. I have hard time believing that but the last time he went away he said that he would not be with OW and in fact, he wasn't. I still assume she'll be with him though. It doesn't feel good.

He thinks his mother would appreciate hearing from me. (She is the one who had the emergency Fri. night.)

Just after I found out about A, he asked me never to contact his family or friends again. And I didn't. When he retracted that request Friday it was during the day quite a bit BEFORE the family emergency. It seems like didn't just mean what he said, but also like he is encouraging me to make contact with the family. He could so easily have said nothing more about contacting them...

Mr. J. wrote that he believed me about not spying on him through his mail.

That is a big deal I think. That suspicion has been his ONE and only reason for hating me/distrusting me/not resolving problems with me that he knows (and has said) doesn't actually coming from inside him. He gave up his only (reliable and useful for him) anger vehicle.

I've been consistent on this since before I ever knew about the A. And after I found out!? I really wanted so badly to read it and I would have if I could have without getting caught... but I didn't know how. Then when I went on holiday I actually had a couple of opportunities to read his mail without his ever even knowing and in the end, I chose not to.

Mr. J. THANKED me for talking to him Friday night. He thought it was very brave for me to make my heart vulnerable (one more time) and that he would try to treat my heart with the best care. Actually, the word he used was utmost...

He wants to write to me more. (Meaning more long heart-spilling letter writing, not let's trade palsy e-mail stuff.)

I don't know what that means.

I wasn't expecting to hear from him. I really did think it was likely I'd get the BrambleRose ending straightaway instead of progress. I think this is progress... but you know? I don't know where to go with any of this.

Jinx

I don't know where you go with any of this too. Could he still be comparing what he has with OW to what he had/has with you? Or could he really just be getting his Jinx fix and wanting to extend the drama and intrigue? I know if their A was that intrenched then it can take time to get out from under and save face. I think that you've clearly shown him the road home...did you ever put it in writing...a la plan B letter? Anyway...where will this lead. I get impatient for you and wish he'd just wisk you away and get hitched...and live happily ever after...but that patience is still needed and you may need more darkness before the light. He will need to s**t or get off the pot pretty soon.

You did acknowledge to him in your conversation that you were screwed up for quite a while by the counselling you had received. You see how that affected your choices, and that mistakes were probably made which had contributed to your depression and both of your confusion.

It sounds like you will have to make the difficult decisions should he stall and indicate that he is just wanting to eat cake a while longer.

Cymanca,

Thanks for the input. Quickly, I didn't say I was mistreated by anyone here. I very much am interested in discussing different and opposing points of view. To me that means agree or disagree, I will consider what you are saying and explain myself or ask for further explanation as the discussion evolves. I think it's rare that I've ever just dismissed someone here as I don't really care to be dismissed... you know? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Also, for the sake of peace in the garden, I am willing to just give up the whole plan B naming schema, though I did say one last time that I was up front my plan being a modified plan B, which it was and that I did outline what my boundaries were to Mr. J.

I've been very clear about my boundaries (if that is what we're calling them). Mr. J. said as much. He said he he'd heard, he'd read but (his words) he never really listened before. He said it was like he'd never really paid attention and now he is understanding.

Whatever we call the plan, there were some necessary changes to the *ahem* standard plan B outline that I felt I needed to apply to my situation.

1. Mr. J. works with OW. Not only works with but she works closely with. Demanding a NC letter before he is even allowed to talk about business-related things with me, let alone talk about reconciliation, seems self-defeating.

Mr. J. can avoid OW outside of work should he choose, but he would have to quit his job and move to adhere to an NC letter. I am not saying I'm not interested in a NC letter, BUT, there are certain life - business items that need to be addressed from time to time. Even within a plan B.

2. Now, regarding a plan B intermediary, well, it's a fact of my existence - I don't have any family other than my elderly gran and she's too fragile. Friends are understandably in one camp or another (certainly not neutral) and there is no reliable intermediary available to pass "business" items between us. Retaining an attorney for that purpose alone is expensive. So not having a better alternative, I decided it's Ok for me to allow only non-personal business.

The contact basically was like this:

Can you pick Squirt up and keep him with you for a few weeks?

Jinx

No pleases, no thank yous, no explanations, nothing extraneous, nothing that can't be answered with a yes/no. When Mr. J. would write and ask about me I didn't respond. When he would write about himself I didn't respond. When he sent me money I didn't respond. When he sent me information I needed I didn't respond. Contact was kept to an absolute minimum.

Friday when he started with the personal stuff I said the old business only line and he heard me and he kept going. I repeated it. He kept going. I could have hung up the phone on him. I didn't. If that is being a failure. Oh well.



This is not part of my reasoning but I will observe here at MB that for many people the NC letter was a vital need for their recoveries. For others here, even a NC letter did not protect BSs from WSs continuing contact with OP or new OP. It's just an observation. When someone gives their word verbally or on paper, it would seem that they are still only as good as their continued actions prove them to be.

My boundary regarding OW or any woman is remains:

Mr. J. cannot have an A (emotional or physical) and have me.

Regarding being friends - Mr. J. can't have me as his friend without also having me as his wife.

Those are clear boundaries as far as I'm concerned.
I agree with you. Yes, he was able to gauge my position. He knows without any doubt that my position is, and remains, no more cr*p. He understands that he can't bargain his way back into my life.

I can't make you believe this but as an explanation I will say that Mr. J. has known from observation for many years that I have never withheld forgiveness from a person for any reason. I have never withheld love or friendship. I have never withheld personal or professional accountability. He has seen me in several situations over the years where he thought I could have or should have.

Mr. J. now sees that I am capable of withholding all of those things from him, and that I am prepared continue this way indefinitely. He can see that for the first time since he's known me, I will not change my mind. I will not budge. If there is not future for us together I am through with him. It doesn't matter how many belongings are left here. It doesn't matter how often he calls. It won't matter how much he says he loves me.

No future together = nothing.


Thank you for the prayers. Thank you very much. That means so much to me.

Your input means a lot to me too. I hope you understand that I am not disagreeing with you, but instead am explaining why I chose the way I chose. I make mistakes every day <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Maybe this has been a mistake and I need to correct it. Could be. I will have to think some more on it I am definitely open to the idea. Also I'm not dissatisfied with what is taking place now...

I still think this is all going to take time. For Mr. J. to figure his life out and for me to grow some more too.

Thanks,
Jinx