This all comes down to a matter of trust.<P>We (my wife, our six kids and me) were planning on attending a miniatures conference soon. Today she asked if I’d have a problem with her going alone for 2 days.<P>The last time I let her go on vacation alone, I had serious misgivings, but I kept my mouth shut and trusted her. That’s when her internet affair turned physical. <P>After not snooping for a while, I checked the hard drive disk cache and discovered she’s been E-Mailing another guy and was telling him about the conference she’d be attending in October. The E-Mails are, not too surprising, very explicit.<P>Part of me wants to confront, even though I know she’ll vehemently deny everything as she’s done in the past.<P>Another part of me wants to ask one of the neighbors to watch the kids and “surprise” her at the conference.<P>If she can’t/won’t stop, I don't know what else to do. BTW my therapist didn’t think she’d be able to stop, he says the the internet is so addictive that it takes a major shock to even have a small chance at stopping this behavior.<P>Please let me know what your experiences have been.<P>Thanks<P>John <BR><p>[This message has been edited by john53 (edited September 29, 1999).]

My experience wasn't an internet thing but when talking to my H about my lack of trust and how when he is out of sight I can start thinking very irrationally he encouraged me to come see him, surprise him. I am always scared of what I might find but you really do need to know. Maybe, just maybe you will be surprised in a good way. Either way, I think its best to find out and for her to be found out. I know alot of people here think that being honest is the best but I think we betrayed need to do what we need to do to make us feel okay with our situation. Best of luck to you, I hope you are happily surprised at what you find.

This is right up my alley. Sure, let her go alone, and gee, you're such a good hubby that you should make the room reservation(s) yourself....be sure to arrange with the hotel a room nextdoor, and make sure that an extra key to hers awaits....tell them to keep it a secret so that the surprise isn't waisted. When YOU get to the hotel, make sure she's out of the room, then place the wireless mic or baby monitor where she won't find it...near the phone attached to the underside of the bed is a good place.......<P>------------------<BR>

Well, I sympathize with you being you're on the hidden end of the stick here. Meaning you are the one who had to snoop to snap into reality.<BR>I experienced the same type of thing, but as a third person, it was my friend's marriage, I spectated and listened. She pulled the same type of thing, net affair and all, and I don't think anyone ever believed she would take it to another level, but she did. Hubby found out, and was confused as you were, but he went and surprised her when she used the excuse of visiting her mother, (whom lived in a different province than where she met her net lover), grabbed a hotel room in the same hotel and observed for a bit just to see how serious it was. Once it got to kisses and holding hands over dinner, he left and waited in his room. He then ordered a nice bottle of wine and snack tray, had it delivered to her room, and waited it out. Upon their arrival to her room, and their surprise of the kindness of the "hotel", the indulged in a nice passionate evening, only to be interupted, by none other than the gracious husband. Unfortunately, their marriage was not resolved...but nor did her other relationship work out as she did not tell her net lover that she was married. But as far as I know, she is no longer ONLINE. Perhaps a good thing too. Hope you can work things out which ever way you decide to deal with this.

Trust her? No! John53 you make it sound like all you want is an excuse to divorce. Is that true? If you don't, then I suggest you nip this thing in the bud as soon as possible.<P>Tell her yes you do have a problem with her going alone for 2 days. You can tell her exactly why in a non-lovebusting way. She has given you an opportunity to show her that you do care about her, that you do love her. Be prepared for an outraged denial. After the dust clears, try to listen carefully to understand why this happened. Sift through the garabage you hear, and hear how some of her needs are not being met. Plan on going to the conference to work on your marriage not on catching your wife.<P>On the other hand if what you really want is divorce that's the easy way out, or is it?<P> <p>[This message has been edited by awoken (edited September 27, 1999).]

Kris10 - the odd part about this is when we were newly married I attended a couple of IBM workshops, I’m a systems programmer, and she later told me that she suspected me of fooling around whenever I was out of town. This, even though I was at the hotel (alone) every single night and usually ate dinner in the room as I had homework (at age 40, unreal!!) to study for the next day’s class. She views any kind of trip away from home as a junket as her sister works in sales and tells her stories of what her trips are like. However, when you’re attending a 5 day class, with a lab, in gathering diagnostic info and using it to solve major problems on a mainframe computer system or learning about the internal flow and logic of an operating system, there isn’t much free time. No, if I show up unexpectedly WW III will commence.<P>Snooperhubby - I already thought of that, see my comment above about the anticipated result.<P>Benna - I’m afraid that my experience will be like what happened in your friend’s marriage and I really don’t want that.<P>Awoken - if I wanted a divorce I’d have gotten one in April after I’d discovered she’d been unfaithful to me in January 1999 and was planning another tryst in April 1999. However, now I see that the last 6 months has been nothing more than a sick game in her eyes. She took off her wedding band, after putting it on last month, and threw it at me last night when I was non-commital about her plans. Every time I try and talk about what happened earlier this year and the events that led up to it last year she gets enraged (a direct quote – “Nobody is going to tell me how to live my life, I’ll do whatever I want to do whenever I want to do it and you can’t stop me”). This attitude is OK when you’re single and not seriously involved with anyone, but in a marriage or serious relationship you must take your partner’s feelings into consideration or you’re just asking for trouble. I know I have to nip this right now, I just haven’t been able to figure out a way to broach the subject in a way that she’ll take as non-lovebusting so that we can have a rational discussion instead of a knock-down drag-out donny brook.<P>Any ideas on this last thought would be greatly appreciated. <BR>

John53, I have to say that I agree with the notion to nip it in the bud and I also think a surprise event might shock her out of her behavior. But there is something additional I think you should discuss with her when alls said and done and that is that is sounds like the two of you have two totally different idea's on marriage. I think you need to let her know that the notion that the two of you have a "right" to do whatever you each want is something you don't agree with. I think a marriage should be based on consideration of each others feelings. Maybe if you asked her how it felt when she suspected you of cheating will remind her of how hurtful it can be when she cheats. I would also remind her that this isn't an "open" marriage to you and that cheating is cheating in your eyes. It's funny though, my husband and I are also going to attend a minatures convention this month, I wonder if it would be the same one??? Either way, God Bless You!<P>------------------<BR>Chick's<P>You won't see things until your ready to not be blind!<BR>

Chick's - Ft.Lauderdale ????

Chicks; John53:<P>This is totally off the subject but my curiosity got the better of me. What is a "miniature" conference?<P>Thanks<P>Flip

Flipper - these are dollhouses for adults. The one my wife's working on now is 1/24 scale including all of the furniture and accessories. I put them together and do the wiring.<P>John

HI,<P>It does not sound like your wife has read Harley's books. Is that so?<BR>It does sound like she is one selfish lady, and unaware of what her part should be in the salvation of your marriage.<P>Way I see it (IMHO) you have two choices...<BR>1. Just stop worrying about what she does. Accept the fact that she is going to screw around when given the opportunity and you look the other way. Can you do that? Are the positives in your marriage enough to justify giving her the time and space necessary to explore other relationships?<P>2. Confront. Get it all on the table.<BR>Your suspensions. Your fears. Your hopes.<BR>Your concerns. Your expectations. Your love. Go with her to the conference. Hey.. you did the wiring! You have been looking forward to this time to get away together for a long time and are hurt that she would even consider going without you. Right? You want to have fun and be with her. Right?<BR>Tell her. You would not be telling her what to do. You are telling yourself what to do!<P>On the subject of her expressions of "autonomy". That I can somewhat relate to. I used to get all the more stubborn and dig my feet in deeper if my H tried to persuade me to his way of thinking. I resented him trying to control my life with his expectations! I resisted becoming a new entity with him, holding fast rather, to my own individuality. I don't know why my thinking changed on this. Can't say if it was caused by external imput, or soul searching of my own, but one day I realized that I was not a single unit, unaccountable to anyone but my self, I was half, yet not half of a new entity. I was still whole too! How can a whole still be whole, yet at the same time be a half? And in being a half of a new entity, does that not mean I am also a reflecton of the whole of that entity? (Half of an orange is still an orange!) As such, my autonamy is expressed through this new whole, of which my whole is half of! hehee (this is fun to write, even if it makes no sense to anyone else reading it!) My husbands thoughts, wishes dreams, etc. become a part of who I am and vise versa, so what I am doing thinking "no one can tell me what to do or how to do it."? No one is telling me what to do or how to do it. Decisions made come from within the framework of the new whole of which I am part. <BR>If you follow any of this.hmmmmmmm, then I will conclude by saying that your wife has not reached this understanding of the truth. You nor anyone else can make her see it either. It is sort of a "AH HAA!" experience.<P>Gosh, anyone reading this please let me know, honestly, if you think I have gone OFF THE WALL, or if you get it?<P>Good luck John.<P>Beth<p>[This message has been edited by Pilot's wife (edited September 29, 1999).]

My wife too, is an Internet junkie.<P>That is how she found the guy who has become her soulmate. That is how she now has him staying in her apartment.<P>Yes, you must make it clear to her that there is to be no time apart (if you are still with her now.)<P>I understand Beth's[Pilot's wife] "AH HAA!" experience. But if you are to be honest with yourself and with her, let her know your dissatisfacton with her going. You obviously can't stop her... but let her know your feelings....<P>In rebuilding a marriage... you need to do everthing together. If you're far from that stage now... let her know you want to work towards it!<P>I hope it works out.<P>Jim

Hi all,<P>This is for Pilot's Wife. Hi Beth, I read your post to john53 and I wanted you to know that what you wrote made sense to me. Both my H and I have come to the same conclusion albeit in different ways from you and different ways from each other. We consider it becoming conscious to the bigger picture. Those who are not aware, have not figured it out, yet. We have hope that everyone will figure it out, one day. The interesting thing is that we all figure it out mostly on our own although it is basically the same thought process and end result.<P>Thank you for taking the risk of opening up and explaining your process of Ahaa! <P>Hugz and prayers,<BR>Thoughtful (Deb)

Hi John me again. Well your wife has to be willing to work things out and part of that willingness means she is being honest with you. If it were me, as much as it might hurt, I'd need to know what was going on for real. If she is doing what you suspect, maybe its time you tell her..either we give this an honest try meaning counseling, honesty, no love busting, policy of joint agreement, etc. or its time for us to be apart until you decide for sure what you want. This is totally unfair to you if she has you believing one thing and she is doing another. Throwing a fit (or her ring) because you were questioning something to me shows more guilt than anything. One thing I have to say for my H is that this whole thing taught him what caring about the other person's feelings is all about....ask your wife to read about the PJA, maybe it will help. Good luck to you!

John, <P>I can certainly symphatize with you. You have a very interesting situiation. I was wondering how much long term thought your wife has actually put in concerning your marriage. I would think a good father image and financial security would be pretty high on her list of needs. Are they? <P>I think Beth (Pilot's Wife) hit the nail on the head as far as your options. You can either look the other way and pray she comes around, or confront. I honestly don't think your wife is looking at the big picture. <P>Beth - Believe it or not I understand your half and wholes description. I had to read it a couple of times, but it did sink in. My wife is following a similar pattern to what you went through. She hasn't reached that "AH HAA"! revelation yet but I think she is getting there as the days go by. You are also correct in that I can't make her have the "AH HAA" experience. It took me a while to realize that. <P>SHA<p>[This message has been edited by Sir Hurts Alot (edited September 30, 1999).]