Brief history-married 14 years (as of tommorow), separated for over two years due to my EA. Reconciled in 09/04, D-day for his EA was 8-23-05. Apparently his EA lasted about 2 months, lots of phone calls, text messages, some dates, lots of lying about working late. He got busted by the text messages, I interrupted his affair, has claimed NC since day after d-day. We have had 2 MC sessions, he is very reassuring about his physical location (although he won't tell me where OW works, so him telling me where he is doesn't do alot of good) He is a subcontractor who was working at her business.

After D-day, he said he had been slapped in the face with where is values are and he wanted the marriage. We spent the first two weeks talking, hurting, trying to understand our cycle. He does not deny having very strong feelings for her and he says he is not acting on them. But he is very defensive about his "memories" and if I say anything negative about OW, he deletes all attempts at reassurance. It seems very clear to me that he will only reassure me as long as he can keep his "vision" intact.

At this point, his fog actually seems to be getting worse, he is withdrawing, he admits he is wondering if he made the right choice (to work on marriage), OW is also married and the hopes of that working out is slim to none. I am sure I have LBed plenty since d-day. I have expressed rage, anger, hurt etc. I thought he was sorry and wanted to help us, I am not sure that is the case now. I have tried plan Aing, and he says I am just acting like a martyr to try to make him feel guilty.

Some of the things he says are just so "out there", I realize I am not dealing with a rational person. Here are the most recent quotes:

" Don't you realize how much it hurts me when you say bad things about OW?"

"It has only been 2 weeks, I am trying to get over her, how long would it take you to get over you mom dying?"

These statements do not seem at all rational to me. (Maybe I am delusional) My feeling is, is that is is still very much in this fog. If I express my feelings, he can't deal with them. I understand that-he can't comfort me since he is still very much emmeshed in her. If I try to plan A-he says I am trying to elicit guilt, plus I feel like I am loosing my self-respect from eating this poop sandwich everyday.

I really want to be married to the man he says he wants to be. I am just not sure whether he is still in a daze, or whether he is just a self centered jerk.

When I had my EA, we did not try to work it out, we separated, coparented beautifully, came to respect and like each other and reconciled. This pining away for your lover while trying to be with your spouse is new to both of us. He never said a bad word about my former SO, but we weren't sharing a bed at the time either. I really can get past this EA, we are learning our triggers, we have talked about what leaves us vulnerable. I will get over GF long before he does IMO. But his behavior since D-day has been very hurtful. And his withdrawing now is almost intolerable.

How do you plan A while they are foggy and longing? I have asked what he misses about her, what EN are you lacking in? He can't/won't say what she has that I don't have. I am competing with a phantom. How do you not shrivel up and die? How do you maintain your self respect while you do your husbands laundry only after sniffing them?

Thanks for reading.

IMO they are all jerks when in the fog, so both.

Try reading some of Bob Pure's early posts. He planned A his butt off, while poor Squiddy pined her lost (gag) lover.

- Kimmy

He's in fog land and my WW is a jerk while in fog land. If they could only hear themselves, the cruel things they say, and trying to bait us into an arguement.
Hang in there........

OK Jean36 get yourslef in to PLAN A right this second which means not one more speck of disrepectful LBING from you from this moment forward...

You got 40% more than most BS here have and that is a spouse that says...

After D-day, he said he had been slapped in the face with where is values are and he wanted the marriage

also you got some honesty here..that you need to build on....
and offer positive re-inforcements for every truth he tells you even when it hurts...ie

He does not deny having very strong feelings for her and he says he is not acting on them.

there are BS that would die for that type of conversations with their husbands....

and if I say anything negative about OW, he deletes all attempts at reassurance

dopn't you understand that every negative comments and thing you say about the OW is a direct attack on him..
that the more bad things you say about her..is just throwing in his face his own stupid and hurtful actions..

the more you villify her..the more you villify him for choosing such a loser..
he needs to process those actions on his own...not with you whispering in his ear how gross she is...for then he only feels gross as well if not grosser...(OK more gross) <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

for she is he and he is she...
they are mirror images in their ability to turn away from honor and decency and cruelly hurt innocent people including children...

you will be much better served never ever speaking a nagative word about her............

plan A is not for the weak hearted
that is why it must have an ending point...
that is why it must be done in doses in which you detach emotionally and expect NOTHING in return..and I mean nothing...

maybe your husband didn't ever say a word about your OP because he realized that the issue wasn't and isn't the OP the real issue is the wayward spouse...

ARK

Thanks to all three of you for your reply, and thank you ark for the wake up call. That is one thing that he has said, he is trying to open up and communicate with me. That is how he has emotionally reassured me. He has gone to MC, and he is the most anti-counseling guy you will ever meet.

I do believe that plan A can work. As a FWW, I believe that it would have helped me in my fog. I thought we had a agreed on a "don't ask-don't tell" policy in regards to his feelings for OW, he was the one that initiated the last conversation. I really wish I could support him in his loss of his "friend", I wish I could do for him what she did.

But after reading some old threads this AM, I am thinking it is not what she was doing, but that high he got from the A. Maybe that is why he can't tell me what they had together, it wasn't her-it was just the selfish gratification.

I think we just pushed too hard at first. He acted motivated to save the marriage. He actually took several days off of work that we just spent dealing with this. We have crashed and burned. I can see that the OW looks much more appealing at this point than the wife that is always asking you to talk.

Maybe I am just doubting that he is worth the pain of plan A. What if I plan A my butt off, and when we clear the fog, he really is just a selfish jerk that never will ask about my needs? He wants that romance, that "honeymoon" phase. We have dropped of the kids and gone on dates since D-day. I ask him those "getting to know you" type questions. Try to show him that I am interested in who he is. He doesn't reciprocate, the only thing he has learned about me since d-day is that I have more of a temper than he realized.

I am scared about what I am capable of, if my EN have to be on the back burner until the fog clears. If I am getting all my warm fuzzies from friends-doesn't that make me less motivated to plan A? He didn't yell at me or get angry last night. That made me feel warm and fuzzy. He checked on me as I was puking, (this stress has wrecked my system). The cool washcloth made me feel warm and fuzzy? I guess I am lucky in some ways, but the lowering of standards scares me.

As a FWW, I know what emotional abandonment triggers in me. I'm just scared of giving up, I am scared that it isn't worth the effort, I am scared that I will never feel safe again.

Jean...

First, AWESOME post from Ark...really internalize the wisdom he imparted to you there...

Secondly, try and remember back to your own A...A's really are all about how they make you feel about yourself, not the other person...OH YES, A's ARE SOOO...SELFISH...I'm not pointing any fingers, I'm a FWW myself...

Thirdly, and I feel most importantly, one of the BIGGEST parts of Plan A is WORKING ON YOURSELF!!! That means that no matter what happens in your M, you know that you will be alright...So, join a gym, buy some new clothes, sign up for classes of some sort, develop a new hobby, get a new haircut/color, get a spray on tan, get a massage...Whatever YOU can do to make YOU feel good about YOU...That will take some of the focus off of all the relationship/affair/"where do we go from here" stuff...The better YOU feel about YOU, the better he will begin to feel about YOU(but remember, you aren't doing it for that reason...this is for YOU...any benefits that come from that are just "GRAVY"-Got It?)... So Go Get You Some Confidence, Girl!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Mrs. Wondering

I am hearing that me saying anything negative about OW is a LBer. I really have not initiated a "slam the OW" conversation. I do react when he speaks so highly of her and his strong feelings for her. I cannot seem to suck up the gumption to say "she sounds like a lovely person". I honestly do not know how to react to his expressing his feelings. Perhaps I should just practice that until it becomes second nature "she sounds like a lovely person".

Thanks Mrs. W for the pep talk. I really had a good day Sunday, was coming to terms with my feelings of hopelessness. I finally realized, if I could be this happy with someone who was faking it with me, imagine how happy I could be in a real relationship. I was sorta giddy, but that made WH a tad uncomfortable. And that evening was when he told me he had started thinking that I wasn't the right choice for him, that perhaps the M wasn't worth saving.

So now, I feel like we are pretty much where we were on D-day, he is back on the fence. I realize that me pushing too hard probably plopped him back on the fence.

Tomorrow is our wedding anniversery. I don't know whether to acknowledge or not. I don't want to make him uncomfortable by professing my love to him. But I don't want to ignore it and make him think I don't care either. It is very hard to planA when you have so little feedback on what behaviors he prefers. I don't know whether to watch TV with him, or just leave him alone. I don't know whether to cook for him, or if that makes him feel guilty. If I admit my wrongdoings-he says I am playing the martyr. If I deny wrongdoings-he says I refuse to accept responsibility for anything. And of course, everything changes on a daily basis. Every day, I wait to see who I am going to be married to that day.

So I am concentrating on NOT reacting to him, just identifying my boudaries, rights and my responsibilities.