How do you know that you are at the point of forgiveness?
What exactly does that mean?

What does it mean to YOU?

To be honest, I don't really know. I feel like in a way, I have forgiven my H, by staying and working on our M, but maybe my actions do not make my H feel this way. I have never really come out and said "i forgive you" because I sort of feel like when i do, then that means that all is well and we are over it all. Am i contradicting myself. I just am confused. I hear people say they forgave and wanted to know how they got there and what that means after they said it.

Pep:

BTW are you a therapist? lol...you seem to answer questions with questions:)

lt, I forgave my H when he asked for forgiveness AFTER he stopped doing bad things. However, it took me a LONG time to get over the hurt he caused. I see them as two entirely different issues.

Lost T~

Sorry to give a Pepesque(tee hee <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />) response here, but has yor H shown what feels to be adequate remorse for you?

Remember, just because you are commited to recovery, doesn't mean that you have to forgive right away...give yourself as much time as it takes...An A is a huge betrayal...do you feel like your hurt is healed? Forgiveness is a gift, not an obligation...

JMHO here...

Mrs. Wondering

When I told my wife I forgave her, she really opened up. Am I still hurting? Yes, of course. She's really guilty about it now and I have to assure her I'm not leaving her and that I love her constantly. Our marriage is doing great and we're going to make it.

You MUST forgive now if you want to have real progress. Ask God for help if you need it, and you'll get it.

The idea of forgivness gives you a platform to build on, assuming that is what your husband truly wants.

losttiger,
I am also struggling. But, I believe I have truely forgave, just not forgotten. Do we mix up forgiveness with trust? Trust is a long journey.

Someone going though the same thing told me to give my H to God to hold. Forgive him and let God help him. It seemed to lift some load off of my back. Does your H truly feel remorseful about the A.

I agree with "The Wonderings",
"Forgiveness is a gift, not an obligation..."

I believe forgiveness gave my H a chance to take a breath. To realize not all is lost. Show him, when you are ready, how much you really love him. I think it will help you too.

Trust? I think that is what the real question is for all of us. An A just hurts too much to go through again.

I disagree with the "now" part of this ... you can forgive when YOU are ready to forgive.


I agree with this ... but still ... no pressure or timetable set by someone else.

I think verbalizing quick forgiveness before one is ready actually does more harm than good ... which is why Tiger I asked you what it means to you.

I offered the OW forgiveness almost immediately, and then about 3 weeks later I felt as if I had been run over by a truckload of anger and resentment regarding her actions ... and my "I forgive you" went right out the window. It took me much longer to forgive my H .... because the cut was deeper by his hand.

BTW, we are almost 10 years recovered ... so good things can happen <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Saying you forgive them doesn't mean that you approve of what they did. I also agree with ML, because I wish my hurt would go away.

Sorry about the delay in response here...just took my DS8 to the Dr. He broke his arm.

So I had asked my H what this meant to him, because awhile back he said that he would like me to forgive him sometime. His response was that "he would like absolution, to be forgiven for his trespasses and no longer be punished."

I asked him if he felt punished and how...he said "when i cry and am hurt he feels helpless and that it is his fault"
I said that i needed to cry sometimes and though he is the cause he is also the solution, that i am not hiding my feelings from him just as i don't want him to hide his and this is how we will build our relationship.

As for some of the questions...my H has been VERY remorseful and has been very supportive. He is really doing everything that he should, his only problem is that he is working on not being angry with my mistrust. He completely understands why i mistrust him, and he knows that it will take time but it still bothers him.

I think that we are doing very good overall as a couple, that the road blocks are things that will only come in time. I think, and i am assuming here, that he sees us doing real good and when I have a trigger or something that prompts me to cry, or even when i am searching to make sure there is still NC, he feels like we are not making progress.
Yes, i am still hurting but when i look back to where i was three months ago and where i am now there is vast improvement. So back to forgiveness...in my heart i feel like i forgive him but for some reason i am not ready to verbalize it. Does this make sense.

Mrs. Wondering you asked my if my hurt is healed. I ask you does it ever really go away?

Well, Lost T, as you can see by our signature, we are pretty new to this ourselves. (btw, my H and I both post under The_Wonderings...we just do Mr. or Mrs.) I must say that I do not have an answer for your question...I don't think that anyone here will, as I believe that this is quite an individual issue. It is human to err and hurt, recognizing that fact is paramount, and giving yourself permission to do both without self loathing is critical...

I, as you know, am the FWS...I would give ANYTHING to be able to take away all the hurt that I've caused my H through my hedonistic A behavior...actions do speak louder than words and I am trying in every way that I can to, at least, bandage that hurt...time will tell...

Now, no matter how much I abhor it, the A has forever become part of my life story. Not exactly the yarn I was looking to spin when I set out in my adult life. But, I can either choose to let it eat away at me daily or I can accept it and ask what I can learn from it and how I can use it?

I believe that in life we must take, either what we have been dealt, or what we've chosen to pick up, and then use those experiences to shape us into something better than even, we ourselves, had originally envisioned. I think that we must then take the personal gains that we collect from life lessons and use them, to the best of our ability, for the benefit of others...

I intend to turn any part of my grave transgression into something useful. I will pick through my pain & embarrassment, mining for nuggets of insight for personal growth. What I did was, indeed, destructive, and it is now up to me, to turn it in to something constructive...I cannot change my past, so I must move forward, not forgetting my history, but rather embracing it with appreciation for how it has molded me...Because of that history, I am now a person better equipped to not only tackle obstacles of my own, but also to perhaps aid others in tackling theirs.

For instance, I know for certain, that my growing up with a father afflicted with Bipolar Disorder has made me a much stronger and more empathetic soul than I ever would have been otherwise...those strengths have enriched my life in more ways than I can count. My battle with postpartum depression became the catalyst for my H and I to become parent group volunteers at our local hospital. It was healing and fulfilling to be able to reach out and help others facing similar plights. It is because of past struggles that I am able to fully grasp the positive impact that personal turmoil can allow you to have in the lives of others. I truly believe that wisdom is born of adversity...

It is in hindsight, of course, that I am able to see that I have learned and gained so much from my life experiences, be they negative or positive...It is my genuine hope and prayer that I will be able to effectively help as many people as I can, based upon any of my losses or victories...If I am so blessed, then I will have become who I hoped that I would, and I will wear the scars from my life battles as badges of honor...

Mrs. Wondering

P.S. I hope your DS is feeling okay under the circumstances...

Mrs Wonderings, well said… This is SO true. You have come a long way and you have so much reason to feel proud of yourself in spite of the mistakes and wrong choices you’ve made in the past. Please note I also left you a message on my thread (the read for Christians) yesterday. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Losttiger, regarding forgiveness: I agree with Melody that forgiveness and getting over the hurt (personal recovery) is two entirely different issues. Its interesting that people often confuse these two and think if you still have hurtful and grieving feelings after a traumatic experience, that you have not really forgive the person who have wronged you... But this is not true. Let me explain:

IMO, you forgive someone by releasing the person from your mind with respect to seeking vengeance and hatred, but the emotional wounds are still there and it WILL take time & patience for these wounds to heal and eventually recover. Emotional healing/recovery still need to follow after forgiveness has been granted and forgiveness DOESN'T mean that a person don't still need to go through a healing/grieving process. And this process of healing/grieving includes emotions of anger, pain, hurt etc. These feelings are all perfectly normal and human. Therefore, if a BS forgives a FWS for infidelity, it DOESN’T mean that he/she will automatically be healed or should trust him/her again yet. No. This is a process which will take time & patience. Also, trust must be earned back by the FWS.

Losttiger, everything above being said, I think your issues are not about forgiveness, but about your personal recovery after your H’s betrayal and the healing/grieving process you’re currently still going through. I’m sure you have already forgive your H in the sense that you don’t harbor hateful feelings towards him and/or want to seek vengeance towards him, but you still have to process feelings which are part of the grieving. Don’t try to rush or suppress it and give yourself time and patience to heal.

Blessings,
Suzet

So why is forgiveness so important to the WS if it is not complete absolution. What does it mean to the WS to be forgiven, how has this made a difference once those words have been spoken?

Wonderings: You are both very wise beyond your years...i am not completely familiar with your story but have read a lot of your advice (both of you) and can't believe that this is still new to you both and that you are not an old married couple <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Keep up the good work and advice.
Oh and DS is doing great...i think he likes all the attention at this time and getting his friends to sign the cast, thanks for asking.

Suzet: I think you are right about confusing the two...maybe that is why i haven't come out to say it. I think that my H will think it means more than it does. I do forgive my H and it is about the pain of healing that is stopping me. I want to tell him i forgive him, but i will use some of the words on here to let him know that it doesn't mean that i am over it yet. Thanks for your advice.

First off, forgivness is for you. When you are ready to through off that heavy weight that you are carrying you will be ready to forgive.

Does your forgiveness depend on your WS actions? If this is the case, then please consider that you may never be able to let go of the hurt, resentment and bitterness no matter what the outcome of your marriage is. Don't confuse forgiveness with reconciliation for they are two totally different things.

Forgiveness is never for the benefit of the offender but is and always will be for the benefit of the offended.

TMCM

My counselor told me to not let my husband off the hook too early, for fear that he might not value my forgiveness, and therefore think there are little if no consequences for his actions. He said that if I forgive him too early, he might turn around and not think twice about having another affair.
In my heart, I forgave him right after his affair was discovered. But I still hurt from the betrayal. It is so sad when you have to hide your love from the wandering spouse for fear that it will drive them away as they see us bs as weak, needy and clingy.

exagilent1: What is the heavy weight that you speak of?

TMCM: No my forgiveness does not depend on my WS actions. I feel like i have forgiven him. I understand his reasons for the A and I accept my part in it. I also understand that they say that forgiveness is for the BS not for the WS, but my H had said that he would really like my forgiveness. Is my questioning forgiveness a sign that I truely am not forgiving him? Is there some great difference that i should be feeling once i truely forgive?

kdsheartbreak: what exactly is too soon. Gosh i feel like i am question girl here...maybe spending too much time with my very inquisitive son. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> There has been NC for three months...wow i really haven't figured out the time frame till just now. It seems like this happened so long ago yet sometimes it seemed like just yesterday i confronted him. In forgiving him i really don't believe that this will lead to him straying again, mostly i am worried that he will think all is better and we don't have to work at it anymore. This is not what he has said, this is only my fears of what he may be thinking.

^^^^^bump^^^^^^