Print out the email, and forward it on to yourself so that you've got it for future reference.

When he gets home, calmly confront him with the printed copy. Tell him very point blank (but CALMLY) that this is EXACTLY what you feared would happen if he kept any kind of means to communicate with her at all.

Let him know in no uncertain terms that you're not willing to just sit there and accept his continuing contact with her. It hurts you more than he can imagine, and that he needs to end it NOW. That includes ANY kind of contact with her whatsoever.

If he balks, just keep re-iterating what you've said, and make it very clear that you are NOT backing down and are NOT willing to accept this. Be calm, but be firm.

That's my take on it anyway. It's how I handled continued contact between my wife and OM, and it finally paid off.

Thanks Owl

I've already copied the emails! I'm getting good at evidence gathering.

But by this do I need to shore up the boundaries - this time suggest changing email addresses and mobile number, removing her from IM contacts list. Found out today that he's set up another email address - presumably just for her, because he knows I'm watching the other one. Shame he's bonkers enough to use the same password!!!

Do I mention my boundary of no things relating to her in the house - no photos, gifts.

How do I make it clear that I'm not just going to cave in every time he chooses to pick up with her again. Do I have to say that this is the last time, or give a limit?

I'm glad it worked for you, but at the moment I think our M is hanging in the balance

u_badger

I recommend making a list that includes all of the above, and anything else you can think of.

For myself, when NC was broken, I gave my H a very short Plan B letter, briefly stating the concepts of the first PBL, and when he immediately decided he wanted to end his A rather than be cut off, I had my list ready to whip out. "This is what it would take for me to even consider continuing my effort to restore our marriage." My list also contained a blanket clause, something like "...and anything else I might think of later..."

Others may have more ideas, but that is what worked for me.

One further note on IM. I don't know about the others, but at least with Yahoo Messenger just removing her from his list is not enough. He would still be on her list, she could still send him messages, and also view him if he ever logged on as visible. You can either block her addresses or click on the option to ignore anyone who is not on the contact list.

Hi,

Just read this today. Sorry for the d/d again. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

Ok, you made your point, r they your boundaries? This means if he crossed a boundary, what is your reaction plan?

This is important. If you don't have one, let's help you get one quick. I have to go to work....will be back late this evening.

Keep asking and see what the board says. Call your MC.

IMHO, you need to let him know you feel violated again....say something doesn't smell right....have you been up to something?!??!?! Leave it vague if you can. Watch his eyes. Or if that is too hard do it via e-mail. This w/b hard because you have more info.

take care,
L.

Hi all

not-so:
my H SAYS he wants to work things out with me, doesn't want to be with her etc, but says he can't forget her, and won't accept my plan of completely excising everything to do with her from our lives. He says he just can't get rid of that whole part of his life. Understands how him keeping things hurts me, but doesn't accept that his keeping things is part of what might prevent him getting over her. I feel like it's trying to go through drugs withdrawal knowing that the drugs are in the medicine cupboard just in case you need them. He doesn't get this.

Orchid:
I know that these are my boundaries, but I can't get H to accept them. He didn't say 'I love you but I'm not in love with you'. He said 'I don't love you anymore', but he says he does want to stay married to me. He is obviously going through withdrawal, and now doesn't think he will ever be strong enough to get her out of his system. He won't let ANYONE help him though - not me, not his family, not our MC (admitted to not sharing the whole truth in sessions, and evidence shows downright lying).

I feel like I'm at Plan B stage, but he WON'T leave, so if I want to go down this route then I will have to. Is there a strategy for getting him to admit that he needs to leave, or making him leave? Not sure I'm brave enough just to get the locks changed, but part of me feels like this is the level of shock that he might need to get him to DO something.

I've printed out loads of MB info and just left it for him. I said 'If you want to work this marriage out, and you don't have a better plan for how we are going to do it, then why not give this strategy a go - what do you have to lose'. No response yet.

I feel like I've hit the 6-7 month rock bottom here. Have been sent home from work, to take some time just for me - not good when company is about to reorganise and some people will lose their jobs - just something else to worry about!

Going back to doctor for ADs I think.

unhappy_badger

anyone want to comment? any ideas?

I'm at a loss. Probably as low and fed up as I've been so far.

(very) unhappy_badger

Plan B (and changing the locks) seems like an appropriate response to his disrespect and refusal to end his addiction, at least to me. Hopefully by bumping this up, Orchid will see it and can tell you step by step the best way to go about it.

Wait to hear from her, or one of the other wise ones, and in the meantime don't waste your time on R talk. Think Plan A during the short time it will take you to prepare for your Plan B.

Actually, I took the pictures down in his mother's apt., put them in a bag, and meant to throw them out, but forgot them. When I came back the next day they were gone. I searched that room over and finally found them in a chest. I then took them home and ripped them to pieces and threw away in the garbage. Husband didn't ask, I didn't offer. Now the other picture of mil, w/h, o/w, and other residents in front of riverboat, was stuck away in his drawer. I just one day got it out and threw it in the garbage. Again, he didn't ask, I didn't offer.
To tell you the truth, throwing out those pictures wasn't done for his sake as much as mine. I did not want to see those pictures ever again. To me it was a trigger that I couldn't bear to be around. I felt so strongly about this that even if he would have left me over it, I still would not have backed down.

UB,

(((UB))) How rough to be here, after all that you have been through so far.

Sounds like you are now at a crossroads. It sounds like he has been quite honest with you and laid out what he is prepared to do right now.

So now its really up to you to decide how to respond.

Have you read up on Plan B letters? I don't think you should move out if you don't want to. If you did move out, is there somewhere in particular that you would want to go? If not, then why not stay?

Thanks everyone

Sometimes it just helps to know that you're all out there, and it amazes me that you can keep helping when some of you have had far more difficult times than me. I hope I will be able to repay this board at some point (taker feels in control here <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />)

You are right Smur - I'm at the crossroads. H is at work. I'm here packing the things I need to move temporarily to MIL's house. She has offered refuge. She's a minister, and very pro our marriage (even in the circumstances). My own parents are away at the mo, but I plan to move there when they return.

I feel like I have to do this now. Otherwise there are no consequences of his continued actions, and no motivation to do anything about it.Also I recognise that it protects me from the recurring hurt of discovering more contact.

I'm taking the risk that he will go to her, but I'm also working with the fact that everything he has said suggests he wants to save our marriage but doesn't know how. I think he needs this jolt to realise that he might have to put some effort into finding out how, and that I'm not going to sit around forever waiting for him to work out what he is going to do, and letting him continue to hurt me.

Plan B letter organised, and wedding ring left with it - for the point when he might again want to give it to me 'as a sign of our marriage'. I don't want it until then.

I'll try to post an update soon, but don't know what internet access I'll have - but in the meantime, any suggestions welcome.

Thanks all of you - you have been such a life-line.

unhappy_badger

Orchid: If he isn't willing to help you heal, then you ought t/g to plan B if you are able. Realize this may push him back to the OW and lead to a D. If you can handle this, then work towards implementing plan B ASAP.


Orchid: He doesn't have to accept them. They are YOUR boundaries. You enforce them for you. Remember, plan B is NOT to fix him but for you to protect what love you have left for your H. The WS will suck whatever he can out of you. Your H wouldn't or shouldn't do that. The fact that he is lying to others as well it quite telling. That should infuse your need to go to plan B. What does your MC think?


Orchid: Give him the letter and then give him the time to digest it. That could take a few weeks. WSH's in the fog are slow learners. LOL!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> Then ask him to leave. Let him know that seeing the WS instead of your H is quite painful for you. Let him know he is NOT acting like your H and it creeps you out to see him as a WS.


Orchid: No more teaching a WS. Ok?!??!!? Doesn't do any good. You are doing waaay to much work t/b in recovery.


Orchid: Ok, see how it is affecting other parts of your life?!??!!? Time to reach out and take control back of your life again. READY?!?!?!?

Hugz,
L.

[quote]Going back to doctor for ADs I think.

Orchid:

Thanks Orchid

I knew all this - head says one thing, but heart says another. Decided not to listen to heart for a while and do the sensible thing.

I've decided to take the risk and stay elsewhere for a bit. Written plan B letter based on others here. Set out my boundaries AGAIN.

Going to MIL's house for the time being, then probably to my parents once they are back from holiday. I think this might also make him realise that he might lose his family over this. MIL has already said that she has contemplated what life would be like without her youngest son. She is pro-marriage at all cost, but still thinks moving out for a bit is the right decision - give him time to work things out on his own.

It's a risk, I know. He might go to her, but then at least I'll know, won't I? She will always have to deal with the fact that she was second choice - he didn't leave me, I left him, and OW was the option he had left. Not sure I would want to build a life on that starting block.

I'll update later, but thanks again

unhappy_badger

Why can't he move out?!?!?! If you already explained this point, I apologize. Been working on a 'broken car' this morning and am a bit frazzled. LOL!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

L.

He refused point blank to move out. I wasn't able to deal with it anymore, so have de-camped to MIL's house. So far no word from him.

Will update when I can

unhappy_badger

Hi all

Been Plan B since Friday (it's hard isn't it!)

Left long letter (modelled on some here) with my wedding rings on living room table, then packed my things and left.

Stayed with MIL until yesterday, now back with my parents. All parents taking it in their stride.

Since then have had text messages saying:

I should have added a cat and an MG to my list of requirements for reconciliation - that I deserve them

He has deleted pictures of OW from our computer (but how do I know he didn't just copy them to somewhere else?)

He also copied me into a NC email he sent to her - but I didn't get to see it before he sent it (although I guess I didn't specify this). It was short and to the point, and in no way 'loving' towards her.

So I guess things might be moving in the right direction. Still hoping, but not planning to make any moves too soon.

Looking after me.

unhappy_badger

I just wanted to drop a note saying hi and hoping everything is ok with you.
Let us know how you and your husband are doing.

HELP

In Plan B. Things seemed to be going well.

Copied into an email from H to OW this morning - a blunt NC email. Asked that she not contact him again. She wrote cursory reply.

Unfortunately, her later reply explains that she will keep hold of the 'box' of things related to her that my H said he had started clearing 'just in case' they were needed in the future. I suppose I should be grateful that he doesn't have them anymore, but to give them to her to 'look after'?

It also detailed the unprotected sex they had yesterday, and her hope that my H was infertile!!! This is just what I need - risk of STDs and an OC. She also said 'how can you say you want to marry someone and have their children one day (to her) and then just decide to try to 'be happy' with your wife'. She said she would contact him in 9 months to let him know the name of their child!

I just want to ring him and tell him it's all off. That whatever he does I can't get over this. But I know I love him, and I don't want to break my marriage vows, but if he can do this to me ... what is there left ...?

How do you stop this rollercoaster? I want to get off.

Her greatest fear is that I will expose to her school and to her parents - should I? Opinions here please? I don't know her parents, and don't have a number for them, but I don't think it can be that hard ...

I don't want to look at the info I have about what they are up to, but I just can't help myself - I need to know where I stand, but then I just don't know how to deal with it. I suppose I just have to watch and see if he responds. If he does, then I know that all his positive moves are for nothing.

I'm tired, and frightened, and hurt. I on't want to do this anymore.

Help?

unhappy_badger

I just don't get why these men are so stupid - having unprotected sex. That means the possibility of supporting a child for 18 years. YIKES!

Sorry this happened.

Because it feeeeeels gooooooood! Doncha know, and it's not about thinking, it's about feeling good in the moment.

I am so sorry unhappy badger. It will get better, one way or another. And now you know the REAL reason he kept onto all the pictures and IM and gifts is because he wanted to leave the door open, he wanted to run to her at hte first glimmer that the M was in trouble, or he was having a bad day, or there was a 2 for 1 sale on underwear...

This is the defining moment, the catalyst for change...now, is he a Slow learner, or a fast learner, is he learning how manipulative the OW is, or is he going to get sucked in (sucubused in).

Your marriage vows are already broken to bits by your husband. It is totally up to you if you decide you don't want to try and restore them with him. There is no condemnation if you decide you don't want to. And for what it's worth, I think you should expose immediately.