We are 16 yrs. married w/15 yo daughter. The last few yrs of our marriage have been awful - with both of us mostly in conflict or withdrawal.
I found out 5 mo. ago that he was having an A with a co-worker for 1 yr. and that they were in love. He said he would always love me deeply but that he was no longer "in love" with me. He said he ended it and we started marriage counselling. The OW knew I thought they had ended it, because I sent her a couple emails telling her that as long as there was no contact, I would not tell her H. (Although I later found out they had separated during the A) Then 3 mo. later I obtained her phone records and found excessively numerous phone calls to my H. (He has a work cp., office ph. and email I cannot access) He admitted he had continued contact by phone (a lot!) and saw her for coffee a few times in the last 3 mo. (but no sex). She felt no guilt, was crying all the time, and didn't want to lose him. After confronting him a 2nd time, I believe he did end it because of all the pain and tears I witnessed. (I watched the phone conversation from a distance - so he could say everything he wanted & get it done in one shot) He told me not to bother her or tell her H. or "we'll have problems". I agreed.
Problem is, a few days later she found out I ordered an online report of her phone records and H admits they spoke several times because "she didn't know what to do". She was afraid I might mess with her personal ID, credit, or whatever - she wanted to protect herself & file a report, but H is a Lt. for a PD, and an investigation would expose their sordid A. (The OW, Her H, and I are also the same PD!) Even so, she DID file but supposedly didn't name me and asked that it not be investigated - for "documentation only" in case anything else happened. Even though I promised H that I wouldn't order any more records or bother her, he told her to call him if any reason to believe I was up to no good again, because he wanted to know. Supposedly, there has been no contact since then (about 8 wks. ago) - the reason being "It's too painful for both of us"
Problem is, changing jobs/moving is not feasible. H has 20+ yrs. on dept. and only 5-6 til retirement. OW works in a different division/bldg (more of a day shift civil position - but she is free to come and go) and he could easily avoid seeing her, but there's still the risk he may need to go to her building due to job requirements - or they may accidentally see each other at work related functions (promotion ceremonies, committee meetings, annual parties, etc.)
Even though 8 wks. have passed, H still seems to be in withdrawal. He says he's trying, but not wholeheartedly. Sometimes he's affectionate, sometimes very cold and apathetic. He doesn't seem to notice or appreciate all my efforts - in fact he says I'm "pushing him away" and he wants to "just live a normal life" and try to work on our communication and stop arguing and talking about our relationship and "heavy" subjects every day. I did back off, but H seems to turn every small discomfort into an argument, then blame me for it - saying "We argue every day! You're killing me! I have to leave!" I looked up information in this site and printed out a lot of it (Emotional Needs Q, LB Q, etc.), thinking he'd find it helpful - but he's not interested in reading it. Says it's "too much - We need to take baby steps - If we try to do too much at once we could fail - let's just work on our communication - that's what I feel is our main problem."
He said he felt 20% of our problems are due to our marriage issues, and 80% due to his own personal issues. He wants personal counselling to find out why he's been unhappy his whole life, to work on his "anger over little things" problem, and his resentment issues. In our case, HE is the resentful one - he can't let go of the anger he feels (at himself, he says) for not standing up for what he wanted. Now he's not living the lifestyle he wanted and he's very angry and resentful about that. Obviously he blames me at least partly, because he says that's why he can't drop his defenses and move forward and fall back in love with me - because of his resentment of the past. He also says he's scared - that we will go back to the way we were. Neither of us will be satisfied with that.
It seems to me that, if he was willing to go through all the pain of ending a relationship when they were both still very much in love, for the opportunity to mend our marriage - after 8 wks. of allegedly no contact, shouldn't he be more enthusiastic? Could it be that the "ending" wasn't done right? Could it be that they are still in contact? Could it be just a long withdrawal period? Could it be his own personal issues? Is he right?
To muddy the water further, the reason he initially wanted to stay is NOT because of me, but because he was afraid a divorce would hurt our daughter (the love of his life). Now it turns out that she found out about the A (because I stupidly left an email I found between him & ANOTHER OW in the scanner - which of course he is angry at me for) and told her older brothers, so all the kids know. AND, she doesn't care if we split anyway because she's tired of all the fighting in the house. SO... the initial reason for staying is mute. Now the only reason to stay is to try to save OUR 20 yr. relationship/marriage. I worry that since he's not "in love" with me that perhaps that isn't motivation enough anymore to go through all this work. I also worry that she is waiting in the wings because she thinks it's all about our daughter, who will be 18 in 3 years and then won't be a factor - or because she's hoping our efforts will fail in the near future, and he maybe left her with the impression there was still hope for them if that happens.
My instinct is to wait it out and hope that the personal counselling does him good and knocks some sense into him re: reality and his priorities. But what to do about the contact issue? Is a follow-up letter in order in order to clarify the terms/situation, or should we just "let sleeping dogs lie" in order to not extend withdrawal and move forward? I feel a solid foundation should have been set, but maybe it's too late and more trouble than it's worth - & I'm afraid to bring it up in counselling because I've been yelled at for "obsessing" about the past, and that we need to work on the present. I need an outsider's perspective about this... PLEASE HELP! Thank you so much in advance!

Sad Linda,

I decided to pop into the Just Found Out side of MB to see if could help anyone out. My FWH and I have been recovery for almost 3 years.

I so understand much of your dilema. My FWH is a Police Sgt. I wanted nothing more than to move after D-Day because the FOW works for the same PD, but in a different building. But, it would be financial suicide for us. He has 20 years here and is eligible for retirement in 6 years. I finally decided that I would see how I felt when our youngest daughter graduated and left for college which is less than a year away now.

I do have some suggestions, but I don't have much time right now. I am going to shoot them out quickly and maybe when you reply you can address them. What have you read? SAA, HNHN? HNHN literally saved our M. Did WH write a No Contact Letter? She's married, too, right? Did you say if he knows? You are doing MC? Have you gone alone to discuss your situation? We had the most wonderful C and I went alot my myself and it really helped. Gave me insight.

Well, I gotta go and get some things done before DD and FWH get home.

Welcome to MB, sorry you are here, though! It was a lifesaver for us!

Sad Linda,

Ok, I had more time to reread your posting. OMG, it sounds VERY much like my FWH's situation. She, too, is a civilian & has been able to come and go when needed. But, there was no love or feelings on his part (who knows about hers, though he says no) and no withdrawl or fog.

In my case, I always reserved "Exposure" for if I found out there had been any contact on either's part or any renewed A. There have been many times, though, that I have resented the fact that our family has gone through H*ll while she came through unscathed.

FWH and OW have run into each other face-to-face once since D-Day. He was going out and she was going into the main building between their offices. We have not run into her at any functions (thank god) since D-Day, and they do not use the same parking lot at work (thought that will change in Jan).

Back to No contact and Exposure. My feeling would be YES, do a no contact letter. Have him compose it and you read and approve it. Had I found MB before I did, we would have done one. FWH called OW within a few days of DDay and talked to her telling her I knew (though I didn't know it was her) and it was over. I have no reason to disbelieve it or suspect any contact. He has given me the ok to check his voice mail (he doesn't know I know the password and until several months ago would check it often), email (though he has to open it for me), and cell phone (its work issued so I can't get detailed calls). I feel confident he has opened his life and work to me for the first time EVER.

Although PDs are rampant with infidelity, and its almost accepted, I know if they knew of the A it would devistate my FWH. It is very sordid and no one would believe it of him. He is looked up to as the ideal officer and family man with the highest morals.

As for your D, ours did find out and it hurt my FWH terribly! In fact, our younger D had to go to counseling over it, she was a real Daddy's girl and couldn't believe that her Daddy cheated most of her childhood. It still tears her up, though we can talk about it. Last week he talked to her about it for the first time and she said he started crying before he even got started. I think it's helped her get over some of the anger she had.

IC really saved me. We later went to MC. But I think its important to be sure the C is Pro-Marriage if you want to stay together. FWH and I went to MC around the time the A started and it was actually a waste of time and money. He almost compounded the problems by bashing my H's feelings.

My advice would be: 1) Do a No Contact Letter ASAP, 2) TRY really hard to get him to do the EN questionnaire (OMG, it worked wonders for us!!), 3) resist arguing, LBs, no conflict in the home, if possible. As for the EN sheet, I would say something like, "I can see where we haven't been making each other happy and I would like a fresh start in our M. This will take 15 minutes and if you fill out I will know how best to be the kind of wife you want." Hopefully that doesn't sound cheesy!

I can tell you, I never was 100% positive I would get over the A and be happy again. I mean, a 12 yr on and off affair?! I am sure people think I am crazy. But these past few months I have felt like my old self, and even better since my M is better than it ever was. Its taken a long time, almost 3 years, but i think a lot of that was because of the magnitude and length of the A.

Keep me posted on your progress!

S&L

If your still around I wanted to point out you will get a lot more responses over on the Infidelity General Questions II board. You kinda got lost over here.

Welcome to MB. It appears you've lurked for awhile, but much more progress can be made with posting and asking questions.

In my honest opinion (IMHO) you should have exposed this at least to the OWH. He has a right to know and do what he must with the information. The threats of your H are just that, threats. You've read here long enough to know that affairs thrive on secrecy and as long as contact continues or remains a possibility to your WH no reconciliation is feasible. Your WH must accept no contact as a final decision.

As for your current situation, if he is in withdrawal then it remains difficult to force working on your marriage. His first and only requirement is to end the affair and establish a firm no contact boundry with OW. You Plan A and expect nothing in return until well into recovery. This is difficult and unfair but you've got to make love bank deposits while you can to entice him to believe and trust that your marriage can and will be better.

Read the books, keep monitoring for contact, have patience and keep posting.

Sorry you have to be here.
ACT OUT

nay-nay and ACTdontreact,

Thanks so much for both your advice!

WH still behaves much as if still in heavy withdrawal and completely disregarding my efforts to make love bank deposits. Instead, he seems to be looking for conflicts, then blaming them on me. His resentment for how much I hurt him in the past is so strong, and the defensive walls he's built against me to protect himself from getting hurt again are so high, that he can't get past them in order to move forward. I'm hoping IC will help, but he has yet to make his first appt. Right now, everything I do is "controlling" and he's fighting against it. And he turns every conversation into a big communication problem in his mind (or starts an argument) - then blames me for it, & threatens to leave, etc. I'm pretty convinced by now that most of his behavior has to do with his personal issues. One thing I think he's right about though - we're not communicating because we distrust each other's motivations. (Yeah, trust is the issue all right, isn't it)

The only thing I don't agree with right now is expose the A to the OWH. They have been separated for some time anyway, and its my understanding that the OW is not interested in saving their marriage. Since we all work on the same PD, EVERYONE (but least of all, the OW) will be hurt. (Now if it turned out that the OW would be the one MOSTLY hurt, that would be a different story) <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> On the other hand, if I find out about any other contact, I am prepared to do this if necessary. (But I must be careful & sure I want to do this - The OW obviously doesn't care if her H knows because she threatened to open an IA investigation against me for ordering her phone records, and decided not to only because she didn't want to hurt my H. If I expose to her H and the A is "outed", the OW will then have no reason to not follow through with her revenge - I would undoubtedly get in a lot of trouble, if not possibly lose my career over it - & the scandal would be devestating to all involved. On the other hand, maybe I could bluff H and tell him I won't have anything to lose because I'll have already lost the most important thing (my H), so I won't care much about my job anymore - I'll just go into real estate like I planned... what do you think?)

ACTdontreact, what you say about the NC letter, etc. sounds right on. I'm planning to bring the idea of the NC letter up at our next MC appt. I'm sure this will infuriate my H, but I still want to know what the C's input is on this. I can't let him intimidate me!

nay-nay, I will buy and read HNHN. My goal now is to follow your advice and ride it out and avoid LBs at all costs for awhile. Although this is REALLY hard - he so easily sucks me in! - I must try to stay emotionally detached (ironically, like him). <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I'm grateful for your advice and will keep you posted. Any other input or ideas, please bring em on!

Sad Linda