He lied to me. He broke every vow he made to me on the day we got married. He continues to lie to me because he believes he is protecting me I guess. My marriage is nothing but one big lie and I just cannot deal with it anymore. I feel like I am going to break. I feel like everything has shifted in my life and I don’t know what is or was true.

On our ten year anniversary he gave me this power point presentation that he had made for me of our life until that point. Now I just feel like that was a lie too……Why did he even bother making that for me when he didn’t feel it? I wonder if he was trying to impress OW and everyone else with how romantic he was? It was more about his image to others than it was about us. Apparently there was no us and I wonder if there ever was?

I look back on our marriage and I realize it was all about him. The only time it wasn’t all about him was during the 1 year when I was trying to be a person of my own again. It just made him angry. He didn’t want me to be happy unless it was on his terms. He has never cared about what was important to me. He has never listened to what I have to say about anything. He is doing it now.

I’ve told him many times that I need answers and he never gives them to me. He will never tell me the truth and I just have to accept that I guess. I’m not sure if it is out of fear or if he is covering his own rear or if he is protecting his relationship with OW. At this point I wonder if it is too late to tell the truth. All this time he has continued his lies just adds to the affair. I don’t know if I can live with him and not know the truth. I don’t know if I want to be married to someone that I don’t even know.

The thing that kills me the most is his total unwillingness to even try to figure things out. He is content to put it all behind him and move forward as though it were a blip on the radar screen. He has done no soul searching, no reading, no talking through things, and has never even suggested going back to counseling. Of course, when I am upset he walks around like a beaten puppy dog, but I wonder if it is all for show??? He pays lip service and tells me how sorry he is and how guilty he feels, but………….If he truly cared and was truly sorry wouldn’t he be working on those things that I have said I needed? Wouldn’t he want to try and answer my questions to help me heal? Yet he does nothing. And it is like a knife in my heart every day that passes like this. It is killing my good feelings about us. It is making me numb…………………

If I pretend that I am okay, then he is okay. If I pretend that everything is fine, then he is happy. In other words, he seems happier with the illusion of having an intimate relationship with me than the actual reality. He seems happy to pretend that the marriage is fine and if we just keep looking forward to the future then it will be even better. He has shattered my illusions about our marriage up to this point and yet thinks that I should be willing to work on a future with him without even knowing what the reality of our marriage was. At times it enrages me, but tonight it just makes me very sad.

Not sure why I need to post this, but somehow it helps to think that maybe someone is listening...........

I hear your frustration. It seems to be going around there are a lot of recent posting about lying and forgiveness. I don't have any advice but I stole this quote from Loy on Cambridge Man's post. It made me think.

Just wanted to give you some support. Hang in there.

Wow. Thank you SpouseGuess. You have put into words what I fear lies ahead in my future. My H already displayed these characteristics before the affair. I've told him so many times that I don't and have never really known the real him. He tells me it's because he hasn't let me really know him.

Thank you again...I have connected to this post more than any other I've read. You've given me a lot to think about.

I'm sorry I have no words or insight for you. ((SG))

Thanks for the replies. I am feeling frustrated, sad, and alone tonight. My saving grace is that I do not drink much or I would be passed out by now:)

I have seen many posts about the WS that doesn't tell the whole truth and those really hit home. It isn't that I think my H doesn't love me, it is more that he doesn't seem to get that by withholding the information I need to heal actually is having the opposite effect - it is making me wonder why I hang on? I love him and I want my kids to have a two parent home, but sometimes the situation just overwhelms me. I don't know how to get him to open up to me about this and I am having a lot of trouble moving on without it.

It isn't new - it has been ongoing. He lied for several months about even having an affair (even after I found proof) and he didn't admit it until I was ready to walk. But I am not willing to make that an ultimatum at this point in time. I have so much invested in this marriage and he has really turned into a much better H since all of this happened. Why can't I just let this go??????????

Rare is it that I get time to post and stay online, but tonight is one of those rare occasions. My posts are downers - no doubt about it. Usually it is something I have been down about for a while and intensifies in times of stress. This issue has always been a sticking point with me and no one really seems to know what to say. What can you say I guess. Either tell him that I will leave unless I get the full truth or learn to accept that I will never get the full truth and move on. I guess I just wish I knew how to do that.

I did everything wrong in the beginning and I pay for that in many ways. I hope if nothing else, the newbies will learn that the advice given on this board, while harsh at times, will serve you well in the long run. And if any WS should happen to read this - please don't withhold the truth from your BS because it only causes more damage.

Back to lurkdom.

Why can't you let go?

Because your mind and heart are not in sync.... yet. It w/b.
The problem c/b when it does sync up, u r gonna be one angry BS.

Need to get you past the anger point. Your WS is selfish and always has been, right? U know that now. The question is..... is the investment into the M worth ruining the rest of your life?

No A for you but do you really want t/b tied down to an arrogant selfish WS?

Mine was neglected by his mother (MIL admits it and asked for my forgiveness about 3 months after we were married). Wow, that should have been a huge red flag but naive me keep trying to help H become a better person. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> Ok move forward, then H turned into a WS, had an A, almost lost his family and at some point decided t/d the right thing and come home. Except when he came home, I had already lost a lot of love for him. Had no problem implementing plan B in an instant. Still don't have that problem. LOL!!

So the recovery put more on his plate. He had to make the effort more than me. I was done with my plan A. I was sure of myself, knew my boundaries and able to implement them and stick to it. I also was not easily threatened. I reverse babbled my way out of a lot of tight spots.

WS knew he was conquered. If he wanted t/b selfish, he c/b but by himself. His family was not going to enable or support such conduct. If he wanted an OW, he could have one but w/o his family.

Going to plan B was the best thing. Learning my D rights and not being afraid of it was healthy for me.

L.

(((( Spouseguess )))) I have only read this one post from you. (computer problems) So, I do not know your entire story. I just wanted to let you know that I feel very much like you do. The lies are the worst. I too, feel like my entire life with WH has been a lie. And, I do not even know one thing about his A. He will not admit to anything. I have no place to start recovery without some kind of admidtance, and I doubt if I ever will get it.

I just wanted you to know that I feel your pain and can relate entirely to what you are saying and feeling.

Sincerely, Carnation

SG,

I don't know if I can help due to the fact that I am the one who lied but maybe you can get an insight on your H as I have gotten an insight of my W from you. However, not every H is the same so he may do and feel things different than I do.

First and foremost, I lied to my W and I do see that it was wrong and cruel. My W should have had a chance to know if I was the kind of person she thought she could live her life with.

I lied out of fear. I blurted out the lie when I had been exposed to try and diminish what I had done. Right after I lied, I felt terrible and afraid because not only did I keep an A from her (lies) but I just lied about it again. I don't know why it happened, except for fear - the fear of showing her who I really was. So Loy's comment really holds a lot of water. I didn't want to accept that I was a cheating liar because I was "supposed to be" more than that. My foolish pride kept me from doing what was right.

When my W told me after that if I was lying or if she ever found out that there was more, which she expressed to me repeatedly throughout our engagement and marriage, that we'd be done. This "helped" me to keep the lie. It did not justify keeping it, it added to the fear of exposing it. So I held on to the lie out of fear of losing her and accepting the truth about myself that I really, really screwed up.

I thought that I could handle it until I died. I told myself that she would never know the whole truth because it would hurt her too much. I tried to justify it to myself instead of doing the right thing.

I did tell her the truth recently and she was true to her word - we're done. I revealed it because I was spiralling down from the guilt of it on my conscious.

It's funny, in a not-so-funny way, that I lied to keep the thing I wanted, but in by doing so I lost what I wanted.

Your H may be feeling the way I did/do. He might be trying so hard to disbelieve what he has done because it will mean that he is not perfect or infallible. That is a biggy for me. I never wanted to be this person I turned out to be. I was brought up in the catholic religion and I was not supposed to do this. I could not accept it and made sure that it never had to be accepted it. Until now of course.

I was like your H in terms of when my W was happy I was happy. I guess I felt that she didn't despise me at that moment and had moved forward and everything was going to be alright. It was all just wishful thinking that IF she got over it then maybe my lie and guilt would be easier for me to deal with.

My W never got over it. Never. She never got over what she thought was the truth and will never get past what is the truth. She told me that basically every time in our marriage that we had sex she thought of me and the OW. It's hard for me to imagine someone thinking this every time after 10 years but she did. I can understand at times, but every time? So she never moved forward. I hope you can.

Now a question to you - how will you know when you know the whole truth? My W still believes there is more - that I must have be sleeping around all the time - and will never really know if the entire truth is out. We could work on it for years but the fact remains that she will never know. I have broken her trust. He has broken your trust. Is there enough pieces left for you to put back together?

All you can see is the lie. Your whole marriage to you is a lie. If your marriage, prior to knowledge of the lie, was marital bliss and you connected on every level (minus total honesty) and you were happy would it be enough? I'm struggling with this. Yes, there was a lie and the lie changes who you think your H is but what about who you thought he was. Are his actions of every day life what defines him or is it the lie? If he was the man of your dreams by his actions does the lie really change who he is? If of course he truly has been a bane to your existance then the lie is just a facet of who he is.

So, the big question is is your married life worth keeping? Not your marriage, but your married life. That's the way I see it. Can your H change? Can you handle the truth? Will you accept the truth? Will you be able to handle the marriage knowing that you will never know if you know the entire truth?

I hope you choose to keep your marriage and I hope your H is 100% with you on your recovery. I also hope you two are in MC or will start.

Wow, CM...thank you for the post! I'm hoping my WH can come to that same realization about the truth.Thank you for sharing that. Good luck with your journey.

Orchid - I understand what you are saying. My H was very, very selfish and the A was merely the icing on the cake. It is almost like he had to push me as far as he could - at least that is what it seems like to me. As far as his selfishness goes - that is a boundary I have set and he knows it. This marriage is no longer about his needs only -my needs count too and he is really working on that. He does many good things for me on a daily basis, but he has always done this. While he is/was very selfish in many aspects he can be very thoughtful at other times. He defintely participates much more in parenting and being a husband than he ever has before.

The anger - well I could already write a book on that! I have times when I just become enraged and resentful towards him about everything. Giving to him was always easier before the affair, now I find myself giving less and less. I've never been this angry with anyone before and it makes me feel helpless because I know that I must control my actions/words or destroy any chance at recovery, but it is very difficult on some days.

The lies are a real sticking point for me, but is that really a reason to give up? That is where I am at right now. He has made many good changes and I feel if I could just let this go it would move us forward. But that makes me mad too......It's like a vicious circle. As if the affair wasn't cruel enough, does he have to lie about it too? He thinks because he has changed his current behavior that the past is irrelevant to recovery. He doesn't get that it impacts my trust a great deal. You can't make someone tell the truth and I have done everything I can to make him feel safe with me. I need to know the true reality before I can build a future with him.

Thanks for your input. I know this is something I need to decide for myself, but it is a tough decision to make. My children will be the ones to suffer most if it becomes a deal breaker for me and I don't want that. I do love the man he has become most days - should that be enough???? He claims he will never understand why he did what he did, but he wants to spend the rest of our life making it up to me - is it wrong of me to expect more????

Carnation - thank you for your reply. I feel for you because I know exactly where you stand. I hope that your WH will see the light so that you can move forward.

CM - Thanks for such a thoughtful response about what my H may be thinking. Actually, your story is familiar to me because it is one of my biggest fears. That some day the real truth will come out and I will be devastated all over again. I just don't think I can go through this process again in 10 years!

I do believe it is fear that keeps my H from telling the truth. I've never been a WS, but I'm sure that it must be incredibly difficult to tell someone you care about just how much you hurt them. No one wants to be in that position - I understand that side of it completely. Unfortunately, as a BS it hurts to know that your spouse is withholding information from you that could help you heal faster. Not to mention how it affects your ability to trust. In your case, your wife made decisions based on what she thought was the truth and now she feels duped. Neither side is a pleasant place to be.

That being said, I have a great deal of respect for you for finally coming clean. In spite of my fears about doing this again, I do think that it takes a lot of courage to come clean after all this time. You did the right thing. I really hope that your wife is able to work through her anger and give your marriage another chance. The ten years you have spent being a good husband does count - just as some of the things my H is doing NOW count. It feels like you are in a catch 22 either way.

SpouseGuess,

I'm sorry you're feeling so down. I have had SO many of those days myself! My FWH lied to me for the first 3 months of Recovery. Oh, he "answered my questions" but they were interfused with lies, from everything about who the OW was to the length of the A. I would check into the things he told me and they never panned out.

I had been in IC for a few months before D-Day (thank heavens, it saved me!!) and she encouraged my digging for the truth. Finally, I told FWH that I was having him take a polygraph in XX number of days if I didn't see any proof of his story and OW's identity. Finally he did reveal the truth which was the most devistating day of my life. I was a wreck for weeks.

I know my FWH thought he was protecting me with his fictious story and there are times I wished I hadn't found out the truth. But for my own sanity I had to know who this person (the OW) was. It gave me a sense of power where I had none.

Do you think this is keeping you from moving forward?

Nay-nay - most definitely it is a major sticking point in our recovery. I should have pushed more in the beginning, but I was afraid of losing him. Now that I am not afraid of losing him, I wonder if it is too late. I was a coward and I regret it. Things have improved in many other ways and I am trying to weigh the good and the bad. It comes down to my kids - is destroying their life worth the truth? That is what I feel like I'm doing if I make this a deal-breaker.

What you have described is the dance of conflict avoiding in a relationship.

Sometimes you have to try something radically different to get a conflict avoider UNcomfortable with avoidance.

Right now, conflict avoidance is the most comfortable familiar place for him to be. And your nagging, nudging, begging him to step into the necessary conflict does not look too inviting to your husband!

Learning how to step into necessary conflict willingly is very hard for people who have spent their lives avoiding that step.

Know how to eat an elephant?

One bite at a time.

Try and approach this from an oblique slant with him.

ASK HIM FOR HIS HELP SOLVING A PROBLEM

Make this a test run ... an experiment if you will.

"Dear H, I have something bothering me and I need your assistance to come up with a workable solution. Please let me know when it is a good time for you."

Then ask for his help with an interpersonal problem WITH SOMEONE ELSE (not with him)

Make sure this interpersonal problem has some element of conflict avoiding in it. Ask for your H's wisdom ... how to talk with someone who does not see the problem you are having.

NO MATTER WHAT HE SAYS ... PRAISE AND COMPLIMENT YOUR H AND THANK HIM FOR AT LEAST TRYING TO HELP. *kiss him* and make him feel like he gave you something of great value (his time and his concern, basically)

then ... after about a week, do something similar with another issue. Same script. Get his input and thank him for his time and his concern.

slowly work your way into this so that your H feels you are actually looking for solutions and not for a way to hold a grudge about interpersonal issues.

then finally, when he is relaxed and you are not needy ... begin a conversation referencing his past history of helping you solve important issues ... and ask him something SMALL about the affair.

When he answers ---> STOP ASKING ANY NEW QUESTIONS !!! Repeat it back to him, thank him ... and then do something sweet for him.

Without him knowing it ... the elephant is slowly being eaten ... and he will eventually relax and stop avoiding answering questions because he has experienced success doing this (thanks to you) and he doesn;t feel the conversation will be endless questioning on and on and on ...

See?

SG,

Thank you for thinking of your children in all of this. My W has stated that she is doing this (separation & D) for herself and that the kids will adapt. It breaks my heart that the children will have to adapt.

So again, thank you for thinking of your children too.

PS... I see your M as ~very~ salvagable

Pepperband - I have to leave again, but I wanted to respond to you. I get what you are saying and in fact he will admit to avoiding conflict. Doesn't stop him from doing it though. He is very good with finding solutions for others so maybe that is the best approach. I see my marriage as salvagable too, which is why I have NOT given up yet - in spite of my pain I see the good he does. Thanks for your usual GREAT advice:)

CM - I'm really hoping that given some time your wife will realize how unfair that is to the kids. She may not have known the truth before they came but it should NOT be their burden to bear. She can work through these feelings so don't give up on her. She is just very confused, angry, and hurt right now - as are you. Prayers to you both......

Hi SG,

I don't know if you will remember me, but I have posted to you many times. Our sitches were very similar, altho your H admitted finally, to something at least...

I read this last nite and wanted to respond, but finally came out of lurkdom for the socks post... now feel like I got the ball rolling, must go on...



Yep, again our sitches are so similar it is eerie.. I am dealing with it tho, BY MYSELF! H will still not admit a durn thing..says he was talking to himself (even answering self in higher tone, hmm) I have been a SAHM, mostly, working parttime at a bar, where I worked thru college. Now, I reapplied to school, will earn secondary degree, probably in teaching. Told H upfront that I will go to school and stay here, if that is ok and if things don't improve, will move on later when back on my feet! I really feel positive about this. I love my H, hate what this will do to my kids (that is the major reason that I am still here). BUT, as Pep said recently...I will not be married to a cheater!! OR a liar. Or to someone that is not committed fully to an intimate relationship with me. I am 41, dammit! Life is TOO SHORT.


I want to go on, but H is out of town and I have to go pick up D15 from football game.

I will try to finish this later.

SG, I really can empathize with your situation. I wish I had words of wisdom too. There are a lot here on the board, I just read them and bookmark and try to live by some of them!

jls