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Shaden Offline OP
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I'm not sure what to do. I've recently said that I thought my M was doing fairly well, considering everything... but the last few of days have been rough.

My WW finally put on her wedding ring again last weekend and she has been sympathetic to me... hugs, touching, etc.. No real LB from either until recently.

We went to a wedding on Saturday. One of the bridesmaids knows of the A. I asked my W to dance and she said no. We are not a couple that dances a lot, but will slowdance at weddings. She said she felt awkward because of people knowing (only one person). I said that it would show that we are trying to repair things. The dance didn't happen. I sat there thinking about the fact that if the OM would have asked, she would be jumping to please.

I went away on Monday evening for stressful business meetings (union negotiations). They didn't go well. I called her from the hotel...late, around 11:30, but she is normally up past midnight. She was already asleep and I woke her. She barely asked about my meetings. That was ok, but when I took an early flight home the next day... in time to take her to work, we spent 3/4 of the drive hearing about her work before she even asked about my trip and meetings. Normally I expect this... she doesn't ask much about my work... just this was a bigger deal to me.

I've asked several times about meeting for lunch. She is always too busy. She hates her job and wants to quit... would find any reason to go out if she could. She used to go regularly pre-A and she met with the OM during the day several times. When I spoke to her about it last night, she just said she didn't want to meet and discuss our issues and go back to work upset. I said that I wouldn't discuss issues over a 1/2 hour lunch.

I have given her a list of needs and suggestions. The 8 needs are fairly basic and most of which she had already agreed to...eg. selling our home and moving to concentrate on getting out of debt, changing churches (the OM attends the church), continue MC, I asked for a list of needs from her, to begin praying and devotions together, and to send a NC letter.

We discussed the NC letter last night. She was still reluctant... said I was trying to control her (the MC warned her that because of my dependency some of my actions are controlling. I have worked hard on the dependency issue... but that's a story for another time). I said that stating how I feel and telling her what I need is not controlling. When I asked why she was not willing... answers ranged from uncomfortable to not knowing why it was necessary. I asked her if she was afraid of hurting his feelings, to which she replied, "Yes". I then said to her "You can let me know when my feelings are more important to you than his feelings."

She doesn't believe it's necessary or it is my right to expect her to answer details or questions about the affair.

I have been very understanding of her and supportive. I've been loving, although that wasn't the problem pre-A anyway. I have tried to build her up, realizing that she is also in a lot of pain from the realization of what she has done, and what she was capable of. She often says that she doesn't know if she can handle the months/years of recovery... that she is undeserving, etc., etc.. I have told her she is deserving, that I want to stay married.

I was angry last night because of her responses. I feel like I have been the giving partner pre-A and after. I am now starting to draw the line in the sand as to what my needs and expectations are... my boundaries.

My WW did say she would write the NC letter and did say (to my suggestion) that I could write out my questions but could not guarantee which, if any, she would answer. But both were offered very grudgingly (not in tune with the MB policy on joint agreement).

I spoke to my W about the fact that I don't believe she is giving very much to the marriage... and she didn't prior to the A. She is being affectionate... and she said she thought she was doing well... I did think so as well for a while. Maybe the wedding incident had me stop and take a closer look. Maybe the stress from my job has affected my thinking the past couple of days.

My question is to the many of you that have experienced this... is this a normal reaction from the WS to these issues? Am I on the right path, or should I be looking at the fact that she still seems to be acting so selfishly, is this a deal breaker for our M. We are selling our house... should I then move into my own place when it sells until she is ready to start "giving" and meeting some of my needs? Or is the slow progress I've seen with its setbacks and attitudes normal. I've told her I understand her feelings... that I just want to be able for both of us to share how we are feeling so that the intimacy will start to grow. I've said I want her to fight for the marriage and relationship... not just to stay because she feels it is right or because of the kids. She doesn't have contact with the OM and she has said she is sorry every day, but she said that this is the best she can give today and doesn't know what the future will be like. When I was again talking to her last night about my feelings on how the A happened and what she may have been feeling, she just said "why do you do that? why do you have to talk about it?" She thinks I am just trying to bring pain to her. She wants to just move on. I said that by her saying this, I don't feel she really is sorry. (I think our roles are mixed up... she is acting like the typical guy and me like the typical female in these situations... no gender discrimination intended.) (LOL)

Any thoughts or advice... sorry about such a long post.

Shaden


BH (Me) - 38
WW - 36
Married - 16 years
2 children - 10,12
DD1 - 05/30/05 - EA suspected, W wanted space
DD2 - 07/01/05 - EA/PA discovered & confronted WW
DD3 - 07/21/05 - Further contact discovered and now ended.
11/07/05 - exposed to OMW...
07/01/07 - separated to give "space". recovery was not progressing.
09/04/07 - DDAY all over... new OM.

Patience with God is Faith.
Patience with myself is Hope.
Patience with others is Love.
FAITH REQUIRES ACTION!
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Shaden,

Even though I am not a huge fan of Plan A, it appears you are making progress. While it seems forever since your DDay occurred, it is still quite fresh. If I saw too much co-operation from your WW this early THAT would raise my BS meter.

Good luck


Divorced:
"Never shelter anyone from the realities of their decisions": Noodle

You believe easily what you hope for ernestly

Infidelity does not kill marriages, the lying does
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Shaden Offline OP
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Thanks for the reply, Cymanca.

I do realize that we, although it does seem forever, are just babies to this process. That is what scares me... am I going to go through the pain and suffering for months or years just to end up with the same W who isn't willing to give in to the M? If so, history will probably repeat. If I take a firmer stand now, maybe she will "wake up" and start trying to balance the relationship? Or, like you said, maybe it's just too soon.

Shaden


BH (Me) - 38
WW - 36
Married - 16 years
2 children - 10,12
DD1 - 05/30/05 - EA suspected, W wanted space
DD2 - 07/01/05 - EA/PA discovered & confronted WW
DD3 - 07/21/05 - Further contact discovered and now ended.
11/07/05 - exposed to OMW...
07/01/07 - separated to give "space". recovery was not progressing.
09/04/07 - DDAY all over... new OM.

Patience with God is Faith.
Patience with myself is Hope.
Patience with others is Love.
FAITH REQUIRES ACTION!
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Stop pushing for "talks".

You may ask her using a normal tone of voice... "I am ready to listen to any of your concerns today regarding our relationship. Is there anything on your mind?"

If she says "No." ... say "OK. Let me know if you change your mind."

THEN GO DO SOMETHING REALLY COOL AND REALLY FUN .... sign up for DANCE LESSONS at your local community college (cheap) if WW doesn't go with you (be sure to ask her to go) then you go anyway !!! It is important for you to establish your ability and willingness to work WITH HER but also your ability and willingness to FUNCTION WELL WITHOUT HER.

That will give her pause to think .... when you go to the dance class without her !!! (make sure it's salsa or some other sort of sexy fun class ... OK?)


BTW, it doesn't have to be dance classes, but I think this is an especially good idea since the wedding incident.

Show her by your ACTIONS what you are going to do .... have fun and try new things and even if she wants to be a stick-in-the-mud ... YOU have decided NOT to get stuck there too. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Remember .... convey with your actions 2 separate things at the same time

1. You are willing and able to do fun things with her.
2. You are ~also~ willing and able to go without her to the fun and interesting things if she declines.

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Shaden,

Who knows what tomorrow brings. Stay the course and verify, verify, verify that the A is dead. I know that is tough when you are trying not to LB but remember those rules don't apply if you are trying to expose the A.

Also plan ahead. Be prepared for the worst case scenario. If it happpens you have to react rationally not only for yourself but for your children.


Divorced:
"Never shelter anyone from the realities of their decisions": Noodle

You believe easily what you hope for ernestly

Infidelity does not kill marriages, the lying does
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Shaden Offline OP
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I like your advice, Pepperband.

I never saw myself taking dance lessons before, but maybe that's a great thing for me.

But I get your point. Continue working on me, but be willing to share what I'm doing with her if she wants... if she doesn't, no big deal... I'm still going to be happy.

Shaden


BH (Me) - 38
WW - 36
Married - 16 years
2 children - 10,12
DD1 - 05/30/05 - EA suspected, W wanted space
DD2 - 07/01/05 - EA/PA discovered & confronted WW
DD3 - 07/21/05 - Further contact discovered and now ended.
11/07/05 - exposed to OMW...
07/01/07 - separated to give "space". recovery was not progressing.
09/04/07 - DDAY all over... new OM.

Patience with God is Faith.
Patience with myself is Hope.
Patience with others is Love.
FAITH REQUIRES ACTION!
Joined: Jul 2005
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Shaden Offline OP
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Cymanca,

I am fairly certain that the A is atleast at NC. I certainly don't believe that her feelings are over and probably never will be, but she does say that is getting "better" every day... whatever that means.

I do check occassionally on her cell phone and computer. But she knows how I found out last time and if it is still happening, would be smarter about it. There hasn't been a lot of time that she is away from the family except during work. I can't check her work email or phone. I do believe she is telling the truth in that respect. The OM also says the same thing to me. He has apologized to me, whatever that is worth, and says he doesn't know how or why it happened.

Shaden

shaden


BH (Me) - 38
WW - 36
Married - 16 years
2 children - 10,12
DD1 - 05/30/05 - EA suspected, W wanted space
DD2 - 07/01/05 - EA/PA discovered & confronted WW
DD3 - 07/21/05 - Further contact discovered and now ended.
11/07/05 - exposed to OMW...
07/01/07 - separated to give "space". recovery was not progressing.
09/04/07 - DDAY all over... new OM.

Patience with God is Faith.
Patience with myself is Hope.
Patience with others is Love.
FAITH REQUIRES ACTION!
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 35,996
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Quote
I'm still going to be happy.

It goes beyond "happy" ....

functional
interesting
exciting
strong
caring
vibrant
adventurous
non-dormat
not-stuck-in-the-mud

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Quote
am I going to go through the pain and suffering for months or years just to end up with the same W who isn't willing to give in to the M?

No. Neither one of you will ever be the same. It can only get better or worse. We are still early in recovery but just a little ahead of you. You'll hear a lot of people on this board talk about the "fog". It sounds like that is where your wife is at. The A has to be ended, but it is not something that can be fixed. In recovery, you work together on the problems that existed in your marriage before the A. You both have to change to make it work.

It takes time. Some days I too wonder if all my effort is wasted. Some days my WH is so sweet and I still cry because I'm reminded that he took that part of himself away from me for so long. There are good days and bad days. Our MC told us that if we can see improvement from month to month, we are on the right track. Take care of yourself and be patient.

PS There is no way I could go to a wedding right now.


Psalm 57 (a cry for mercy, refuge & praise)
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Shaden Offline OP
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fbwidow,

thanks for your encouragement.

I've actually had to go to 2 weddings in the last month. One was a girl who stood in our wedding, the other is one of my employees whose office is right beside mine. with both I felt I should go. The first, luckily was outside and I couldn't hear the vows... but I still cried. The second was a private ceremony, so I only had to go to the reception.

Shaden


BH (Me) - 38
WW - 36
Married - 16 years
2 children - 10,12
DD1 - 05/30/05 - EA suspected, W wanted space
DD2 - 07/01/05 - EA/PA discovered & confronted WW
DD3 - 07/21/05 - Further contact discovered and now ended.
11/07/05 - exposed to OMW...
07/01/07 - separated to give "space". recovery was not progressing.
09/04/07 - DDAY all over... new OM.

Patience with God is Faith.
Patience with myself is Hope.
Patience with others is Love.
FAITH REQUIRES ACTION!
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 928
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Shaden Offline OP
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 928
Ok,

I picked her up from work and apologized for my reaction last night. Not for the questions or what I said to let her know what my boundaries and needs are.

I also told her that I have to stop judging progress on a daily basis, but look at it month to month... (I read that somewhere on these posts). I should have known that already from managing at work.

She reached over and held my hand the rest of the way home.

Thanks for your advice and encouragement... those who replied and from all the posts I've been reading.

I've got strength now for a while longer. It should be a good weekend. Our house is having an open house so we are taking the kids to a hotel with waterslides. Then I am away again for work.

...and thanks Pepperband for the rest of the list you sent... "functional, interesting, exciting... etc."

Shaden


BH (Me) - 38
WW - 36
Married - 16 years
2 children - 10,12
DD1 - 05/30/05 - EA suspected, W wanted space
DD2 - 07/01/05 - EA/PA discovered & confronted WW
DD3 - 07/21/05 - Further contact discovered and now ended.
11/07/05 - exposed to OMW...
07/01/07 - separated to give "space". recovery was not progressing.
09/04/07 - DDAY all over... new OM.

Patience with God is Faith.
Patience with myself is Hope.
Patience with others is Love.
FAITH REQUIRES ACTION!
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 928
S
Shaden Offline OP
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Quote
She reached over and held my hand the rest of the way home.


I can't believe I wrote that... how pathetic does that sound when you consider all the things we are writing about in these posts. Oh well, I guess I'm still in love.

Shaden


BH (Me) - 38
WW - 36
Married - 16 years
2 children - 10,12
DD1 - 05/30/05 - EA suspected, W wanted space
DD2 - 07/01/05 - EA/PA discovered & confronted WW
DD3 - 07/21/05 - Further contact discovered and now ended.
11/07/05 - exposed to OMW...
07/01/07 - separated to give "space". recovery was not progressing.
09/04/07 - DDAY all over... new OM.

Patience with God is Faith.
Patience with myself is Hope.
Patience with others is Love.
FAITH REQUIRES ACTION!
Joined: Aug 2005
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I'm jumping in about half way through your posting.
I understand what you are saying. My fiancee is doing the same thing. I try to question why he did what he did, he just gets upset and says he doesn't want to talk about it because it just brings up the past that he is trying to let die. I've also made a list of needs with him and for the most part, we are giving and taking on that. I can't say I have really made up my mind yet if I am going to stay or not. The wedding was called off so the pressure there is gone. I'm just taking it day by day. I look back at when I first found out, August 1st, and I see places that progress has been made. And then I see places that REALLLLLLLYYYYY need attention.
I wish you luck in your efforts. Don't give up!
I read pepperbands response and was floored!!!!! I LOVE THAT POSTING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! WONDERFUL ADVICE!!!!!!


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