Hi, as suggested I'm posting it here... I included reply from Jimmy. The post is long - apologies.



Hi. I’m new to this forum. I don’t know all the acronyms so will use the regulars…
I found out about my wife having an affair about 6m ago. She wanted to leave me right away but I was stubborn and wanted to fight for us/family/marriage. Before THAT happened, she complained about some stuff I was (not) doing (me not spending enough quality time with my kids, me trying to control etc). The parenting stuff – I realized how stupid I was and changed it because of my kids and myself. That came out of my love for my kids. Control… That’s the funny part. She had the history before we got married (long time ago - 2 relationships with someone else while with me). So whenever things would not go well I would check her stuff (e-mails etc). That (me opening her e-mails) happened 2 times in the past 10y. But when/if I would bring those two up in our fights she would say: “that was “just a relationship” before marriage…”

Now… After I found out about the affair, the other side said he did not want to have anything more because he “loves” his family?!@*&#$*#%$. Then my wife started her usual attack on me: about my checking – how I was obsessed, jealous and controlling, how all of that was sick and that whatever she was having was just "a fantasy". She was telling that to her friends and of course she never assumed responsibility for what she did. She said it was my fault… I tried to back off with checking her stuff. However there was a worm inside of me. I found out that she would send an e-mail (in error he claimed) to the guy. The way she explained… …I believed her. She would always say: “It ended THAT day. Do you believe I have not tried to contact him since?” I would say yes (an idiot).

About a month ago I found out by mistake (from some logs; and this time was really by mistake) that in the past 6m she's trying to get in touch with him and also trying hard to forget him. She was telling that to one of her acquaintances. On the other side (from the same logs) I found out how she was telling her friends that I was still checking on her and jealous, without mentioning what was actually happening. I guess there are always 3 stories: one for me, one for her friends and one for "whoever". Which one is the truth I wonder. I went nuts. I wanted to leave her but couldn’t leave my kids behind. I would not be able to bear someone else being with them. I know – I was not great at the beginning but now I can’t think about being without them for a single moment. To continue the story… I have to mention that our relationship was getting much better in the past couple of months. I thought that we are finally getting somewhere. But than, the guy called and she talked to him and was very happy. She was boxed in when I showed it to her. The first response was of course her usual attack. Then she calmed down. I don’t understand that. She said that I’m sick person for checking on her while she’s actually doing it… Hey, if you do not admit to me, at least admit it before God. Now she’s trying to do something about it but would still say that what I have done is much worse than her affair.

The question is: does she think she could do it again? Would she? Do those things ever end? How do we now it actually ended? Are we really recovering? Do not know what to think – I’m having constant mood swings. Please share with me. I would like to hear frmo you.



Quote - Jimmy Mac:

Sounds like you are close to being in "recovery". Recovery consists of:

(1) Ending the A (meaning NC).
(2) Helping the BS recover from the trauma of the A
(3) Fixing the problems in the M that led to the A.

So, are you doing (1), (2) or (3)? ]


Many thanks for your reply.

I'm not sure.
RE: (1) I thought there was no contact and that the affair ended. Than… He called my wife and she talked to him (info from the logs - wife talking to her friends). She said that it did get her hopes up but she was not sure that she wanted to do anything about it. Her words: "it would be nice but in the long run it would hurt..."
RE: (2) I don't think she understands what that means. She's trying to help me and she says that her love will heal my wounds... But I still do not trust her. He called a few weeks ago. That was the time when she would often tell me: “you see how everything goes well and how happy we are…”. Another thing she said was after I found out about the call: “If you’re just not digging, everything would have gotten back to normal without this pain.” Is she trying to justify her feelings and behavior or what? PLEASE PLEASE help me to understand that.
RE (3) I did. I'm not sure about her - considering (1)




Quote - Jimmy Mac:
Is there anyway possible for you to get her to post on this board? There are a bunch of FWSs on this board that can really help her out.

I don't think so - unfortunately.

That guy also has family and he broke up with her after I found out... That's humiliating (for me). And then she was trying hard to forget him (those logs).

Q: how would you explain that she always has 3 dif stories: one for me, one for her friends and one for acquaintances? My guess is that the third on is the one that shows the true status and feelings (she can’t tell me because of the obvious reasons, and she can’t also tell to her friends because they may judge her or not agree with her). What do you think?
I really appreciate your thoughts.

Have you read the "basic concepts" on this site?

PS .... you're holding up pretty well .... GOOD FOR YOU!!

Thanks.

About exposure... I once told her that I wanted to check her story that he moved. At the beginning he was working right across the street from her. She went ballistic. She said I was crazy, uncivilized etc. She also said how she can't understand how someone can do such thing and potentially ruin someone’s family… All that crap. And from what I see some people actually think that I should concentrate on my own stuff (plan A I guess). I was doing that and I thought successfully (considering her telling me how well everything is going). But then, THAT CALL happened. I was not bothered with the call. I was shocked with the response.

I’ll share the log with you so please let me know what you think:

first one:

Wife today is my birthday - I didn't tell you this...
let me know when you have some time a have a story for you. so today is my birthday and I got flowers yesterday. guess who sent them. note that says Happy B and yes I know it's on friday but just in case you took a day off. now you tell me what to think?

Her Friend Oh dear, I don't know what to think. As for what you should do. Say thank you and hope you get to talk to him, but don't get your hopes up. It could hurt Alright, so I think he still cares about you lots but still feels horrible amounts of guilt. So hes sending you flowers because its the only thing he thinks he can do

Wife you know what, you are so young but so smart. i did talk to him yesterday said thank you and all that

Her Friend and anything result from that?

Wife it was polite conversation between two people who know a lot about each other but that was it. i mean, i am trying so hard to forget him

Her Friend feel crappy or okay?

Wife and he sends flowers and he is thinking about me. he wanted to make sure that I got the flowers. yesterday i felt like million bucks today - sucks. i wish he didn't send me any flowers because it did get my hopes up


next one, few days after

Wife yeah, i am fine he called on my b-day again

Her Friend Yikes. Well if you are okay, then thats all that counts

Wife it was somewhat better conversation with a plan to go for a lunch. i was happy that day because everything seemed like before, we joked a lot, laughed a lot etc. he took a week off last week and he told me to call him this week to go for a lunch. i am not sure whether i want it or not. i mean i do, but on the other hand i know nothing will change so maybe is better to leave it alone

Her Friend Well it will make you feel better in the short term, but the long term could hurt very bad

Wife yeah, that's what i think too. far from eyes far from heart

Her Friend Well weigh out whats its worth to you, and hope for the best

Wife we'll see, i'll let you know....thanks for your words of encouragement


I found out about this log shortly after (1 month ago)... than she started crying and begging, but never committed to call him and say the final word. She said she will tell him that if he calls again. She claims that she never went out for lunch. Just do not know what to think. And yes she's kind and affectionate since that day but i just do not believe her. Do you (after reading the logs) still think I should go with the exposure?

PLEASE PLEASE share.

Try,

Welcome to MB....

1st rule you have right...don't leave your house.

Buy Dr. Harley's Surviving An Affair. There's a link on the homepage. It ships faster from here than Amazon.

Read, get educated (don't educate your wife)

Get counseling. MB Coaching is the best, but if you can't do that - get counseling help - you'll fare much better as a result.

Take a look as pep said at the basic concepts. Particularly the EN questionnaire and LB questionnaire. If you want something to do right away, download them and fill them out for yourself. Then if you're really ambitious, fill out a second set as though you were your wife. It's very, very good basic information to have.

Come back and post. Vent here.....we've heard it all before, unfortunately.

"I am not sure whether i want it or not. i mean i do, but on the other hand i know nothing will change so maybe is better to leave it alone"

That email sounds to me anyway like someone who would leave for him if he wanted to but realizes he won't leave his family. Not exactly a great foundation for recovery. Sounds like she realizes she has to settle for whats she has. Just my opinion. Good Luck!! Looks like you have your work cut out for you.

TryNot, is she still in contact with the OM now? When was the last contact?

I don't know. She says she is not. The last contact (according to the logs i posted) was about a month ago. I found out about the affair in Mar/05. The other person ended it right away. I think there was contact in May but he still did not want anything to do with her (no commitments or permanent). And than that call about a month ago.



I’m also curious - what do you think, was it physical? She claims she was just using him to feel better and that the physical contact was never an option, but then how could I trust her… It appears that when I found out it was just a beginning considering that first e-mail I intercepted (they were asking questions like: what is your favorite shirt, how do you fall asleep etc.) BTW we are both 40. I think that the other person is 5-6y younger…

TryNot, hopefully you are watching her like a HAWK, because she cannot be trusted right now. There is nothing "sick" about investigating an untrustworhty person, that is just simple common sense. You have every reason to snoop on her because you have to protect yourself from her.

I have no idea if it was physical, but you need to continue to watch her.

That being said, your marriage has a serious problem that needs to be addressed or this will happen again. Something has led her to seek out an internet affair and I work on that with her. Do you have any of the Harley books, such as His Needs, Her Needs? That might be a good start in addition to finding a PRO-MARRIAGE counselor.

p.s. if you even get a HINT that she is in contact with this guy again, I would call up his wife and inform her.

I got and read those books. I addressed all the problems she complained about – that is why she kept telling me in the past few months things like: “you see how everything is nice now, how happy we are…” and I felt happy and relaxed. And then…. That call and her response...
Before I found that last log, all she’s complaining about was that I'm controlling her and that she feels like in a cage. I do not understand what is happening with her. How can I ignore something like this. She told me that she loves ME and she is with ME and that she wants happy, relaxed etc family and that I should stop torturing me and her about what happened. She told me that she will try to make me believe her again and that all she can do right now is to show me her love. I go through some outbursts from time to time but all that happened (sometimes) eats me alive… But I really have to say that in the past few weeks she is the one being good and trying to convince me that everything is OK (since I discovered the log). I just don’t believe that she could have changed like that. I also told her that I do not trust her and that that was the last one I would tolerate. The next one – I leave. I also said that “I’m in peace with myself” and that no matter how much I love her she’s left with one (cat’s) life. I needed her to prove me she’s trustworthy.

What do you think led to this? Is she having some emotional problems or is this her normal character? Does she believe that infidelity is wrong? Why do you think this happened?

Hello T'not,

I hesitate to even state this because T'not's WW (Wayward wife) has controlled the situation with anger for so long she's likely got T'not to scared to do it. However, I think T'not should expose to OMW (Other Man's Wife) and perhaps WW's parents right now. Mrs. T'not has internalized that her secret relationships are OK. Acceptable. For almost a year she has carried on this inappropriate relationship even though last few months she has been supposedely out of contact with him against her will. But the pining for him and uncertainty of the finality of the relationship means in her mind it is continuing. T'not can not fully win her heart back until she is completely out the fog and working on the marriage. Until a final NC, no progress is made in the marriage and it just stagnates perhaps until the next OM comes along.

Further, the current OM still sends her flowers and asks her out to lunch. You can bet OM's marriage is disintegrating fast around him also. The sooner exposure is done maybe his marriage can be saved and he'll stay away from Mrs. T'not forever. As of now he feels he has free access to WW despite knowing T'not knows about him. Affairs thrive in secrecy. You must blow up the secrecy. Again, my biggest hesitation is T'not appears paralyzed to make such a bold leap of faith. However, T'not you did it your way for so long and where has it gotten you?

T'not. Please read everything you can get your hands on within this site. The web pages and the books. Develope a plan and stick to it. Perhaps only a firm, never bending to hysterical rants of WW, boundry of exposure if a no contact letter is not sent would give her a chance to save face. But that can be discussed later.

Somebody above implied you were 2nd fiddle to this OM and that would be hard. I disagree. In God's eyes you are number 1. I maintain, in general, it is much harder to pull a WW out of the fog; but, once you do the recovery is a lot smoother because women generally possess a greater capacity and willingness to talk things out. However, you'll never know until you proceed to a definite "No Contact" boundry established and agreed to by the both of you. You can't demand it, it must be her choice. You must do all you can to achieve that 1st step and get your wife back. So keep Plan A'ing a work out your plan.

You've already been through way more than I. I was fortunate to have found this site early on. The MB principles are a known narrow path to marital reconciliation. Welcome aboard. We'll be here to guide you through this. Your new mantra -- You will make it, with or without your wife, you will make it.

Good Luck, Mr. Wondering

She had two affairs before our marriage while being in relationship with me. So what she used to say was: “before M it was just a relationship…” <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> I don’t buy that.

What led to this… She complained about couple of things:
1. Me not spending enough time with our kids. I have to say that I was an idiot and really did not enjoy time with them as much as I should have. It hurts me now nowing that I lost those 2-3 years with them.
2. Me not being strong enough: went through a couple of crisis in the past 3y. Doctors thought that I have cancer. I was in a really bad mood for 6 months until I got the final results. Than the job security. I was always a provider. I’m in high tech industry and was out looking for ~6 months. I took it hard. I have to admit that those two events affected my family as well – I was not in a good mood. Now I kind of feel grateful for those lessons. Now it’s different. I know I’m different. I wanted to change, I wanted to become a better person.
I have to say that she was very positive before. She also said that I killed that in her and she just could not bear it anymore.

For me, the sun used to rise and set with her. Now I don’t know who she is. Sometimes I just wake up in disbelief and think: “Is this really happening to me?”. She says the same thoughts come to her to.

But.............you did buy that, you married her. She was unfaithful when you were dating and here she is being unfaithful again. Do you see the pattern? She rationalized away her first 2 affairs and is now rationalizing her 3rd affair. Unfortunately, you now have a mortgage and kids to deal with.

She has never had to face any consequences for her affairs which is probably why it keeps happening.

How many years have you had a "funny feeling" that something was wrong? You said you snooped twice in 10 years, that tells me you have suspected something was wrong for a long time.

I just don't think this is a matter of unmet needs in the marriage, but a character issue. Which would explain why she is SO ADAMANT that you don;t snoop on her, up to the point of manipulating you into feeling guilty for doing so.

There must be a reason why she is so adamant you don't snoop on her because people who have nothing to hide, don't hide. Would you go crazy and call your W "sick" if she snooped on you? Or would you work overtime to reassure her of your trustworthiness and open up your life to her?

You say you got these chat logs "accidentally." Are you not actively snooping on her? And if not, then why not?