Something in someone's post made me think about this. I think that a WS who stays in this mentality too long...the BS really has to examine things closely.

For my own part, I went from blaming my WS for EVERYTHING wrong in the marriage, to blaming myself for EVERYTHING, then sharing the blame for the state of the marriage. Finally I am at a point where I understand that yes, I could've been a better partner, however there is something with in HIM, something in his character to allow him to take the step that I never took. I will take my share of responsibility in the state of the marriage, but ultimately I blame him for the affair, of course, and for the break-up of the marriage.

My spouse took a similiar but divergent path. He first internally felt he had a right to his affair. Then he felt guilty and blamed himself for EVERYTHING. Then he accepted my apology for the things that I felt I had done badly. Then he just felt guilty for things (but feeling badly wasn't so much a factor anymore) and now he blames mostly me for everything.

There was a point where we were still trying to work things out. But the day he said to me, "I don't think I can ever forgive you for all the things you did." was the day I think I really truly realized that has was very self-centered. I don't know if he was always that way and I just never realized it, but he definitely became that way. Forgive *me* for everything that *I* did? No, I was not the perfect partner. I could've done things differently. I did not take care to protect my marriage and my husband. While my husband is not responsible for my behavoir after his affair, behavoir consistent with depression and basically not giving a FF about anything...it boggled my mind that he could not see the big picture and think to question himself on why I was like that. Like it would be a huge gift to forgive me for being depressed over his infidelity. Yes, I wish I had done things differently..if not for the sake of my marriage, just for the sake of my own mental health. But give me a break.

I understood then that I need to have someone in my life who is empathetic and compassionate.

In the post the prompted this one, the WS said something to the effect of the BS being lucky if the WS gave them another chance. I don't think that was it exactly but it was certainly the sentiment.

Oh my gosh, what a toll on someone's esteem to hear a statement like that. What a supremely narcissitic thing to say!

This couple is fairly new to D-Day so one can't really know if that is truly what is in the Ws's heart. But if that feeling lasts too long, I think there is going to be a very hard road the travel if the BS decides to work towards recovery.

I think what is so sad about MB sometimes is the misconceptions of Plan A and Plan B. And oftentimes it's the timing in which we choose to do it. I'm guilty of it myself. My Plan A was having a positive effect on my husband..and because it was, I kept putting off plan B...and the timing of my Plan B ended up being a quite laughable (if not so sad) situation. My WS met the current love of his life very shortly before I chose to go into Plan B. Luckily for myself, although I'm sad about my marriage, the plans have worked for ME.

Timing of Plan A/Plan B are tricky. Because if Plan A is having an effect, then one can be lulled into seeing their WS warming to them. So they don't go into Plan B while the going is good.

I don't really know what I'm trying to say here. I just feel that if people really read and practiced Plan A/Plan B then everything really *would* work out for the best one way or the other. Both Plan A and Plan B prepare you for a life without your spouse but too many people view them as plans designed to win their spouse back. Plan A and Plan B should be making you think that your spouse would be damned lucky to have you as a partner, and at the same time teaching you how to care for that marriage. If your spouse is too far gone to realize what they have in you, then you should be thinking how damned lucky the next partner will be. Unfortunately I don't think it usually works that way.

Thank you for that though provoking post. I think I have apologized to WH more since d-day than he has to me. And you know why he says he was vulnerable to the A. He said, I looked like I was getting into a depression again. He never asked how I was, just saw me and ran. (We had a high needs nephew living with us and yes, it was very stressful, WH's solution was to stay at work longer). And after d-day, he called my sister asking her to help me work on my self-esteem! Ya think that little mistress of yours might have been a kick to the ole self-esteem-ometer??

I did read something in SAA that was very helpful in regards to planA/B. Like you said, the only objective is not to get the WS back. If you do the plans right and they fail, your love for WS will naturally fade during an unsuccessful planA/B.

I know for me, that is the case. I have never been treated so cruely by another human being. I hate, hate, hate, this alien. And I am starting to think that my husband may be too far gone. I do know, that half-a$$ed efforts at reconcilition won't work, failing at this has made me look at my very low standards of marital happiness. I forgave, I gave, I comforted, I took care of the children while he was off in la-la land...

I know that I am not a plan A poster child. I think if I could stay drunk or something, than I could pull it off. I am amazed at anyone who can eat the poop sandwiches a WS/alien dishes out and not lose their mind. Maybe I was just on two shaky mental ground to start off with.

But failing at plan A is makingme stronger, raising the bar for future realtionships (either with WS or not) and has taught me so much about myself and what kind of partner I am.

This has been one of the most painful but enlightening things I have ever experienced.

Thanks aislinn for this. My WH has said those exact words, "I don't think I can ever forgive you for all the things you did."

You've managed to put into words how I've been feeling about it. It really bothers me that while he claims to have taken full responsibility for what he's done, he refuses to see the complete picture. I mean, it's not about which came first the chicken or the egg, my lack of caring for your needs or your affair. It's about understanding each our hurts and needs and wants.

No more action vs. reaction!! The fact is, WH had the affair. I felt personally attacked and I fought back the only way I knew how at the time. Was it the right way? Maybe not, but it was the ONLY way I knew of.

The bottom line is, I have learned some very valuable information about myself and relationships and yes, even my WH, that I would like to put to good use and build a new, stronger and healthier marriage from it -- with WH's help.

I don't know what I'm trying to say, just thanks for saying it better. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />