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I must admit that some of the recent threads have brought sadness for the morality of our friends. There have been threads of “Friends with Benefits”, having sex while the divorce is being processed, and even having sex with other’s while there is no separation or divorce being processed. With the exception of one, I’ve steered clear from these and have not interjected my opinions and Christian beliefs.

From the Religious peeps out there, I’d love to hear your views on dating, sex, and the whole FWB proposition. If you are Religious and living and choosing one of these lifestyles, I’d also love to hear what your views are on that. I fully realize and appreciate that we all fall short in the glory of God, so with that understanding, let’s not make this a thread of persecution but rather one of fellowship, each learning from the other.

God Bless


Hugz, Thoughtz, & Prayerz

Bill
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"I must admit that some of the recent threads have brought sadness for the morality of our friends."

Well, you are sure interjecting your religious beliefs now, LH and in a very disrespectful and highly judgemental way. How dare you question MY morality based on YOUR religious values? I do not happen to hold YOUR interpretation on the morality of sex outside of marriage (premarital sex), but I can assure you that you will never meet a more moral person than me.

You believe in God in your way and I will in mine. We will let God be the judge of who is and is not moral. Whatever makes you think that everyone who comes to this site is a Christian?

Bad form, LH. I'm very disappointed in you. Frankly, I don't care to know what the religious peeps think about these issues. That is their business, not mine. Such matters are between them and God and should not be for public consumption.

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Gee, CheckUrHeart, I don't remember LH ever specifically pointing you out, as you are not the only one who has been talking about these subjects lately. Hmmm...someone a little defensive???<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />
Guess what, LH has just as much right to post about his beliefs and ideas as you do.

Did you happen to notice he respectfully did NOT post this on your thread? He was simply wishing to start a conversation about it with people who DO share similar beliefs to him. Why? Because he wasn't trying to start a board war, just a thread on an issue of interest to him

Maybe you ought to Check Ur Heart.... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />


26 years old
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MARRIED to LostHusband 7/23/05!!
3 step DD's, 15, 13, 10
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(((Check)))

First off, let me say that asking for Christians or other religious people to come to a thread and post their beliefs is not Judging you, interjecting my beliefs on you, or IMVHO disrespectful in any way.

“””How dare you question MY morality based on YOUR religious values?”””

Check, I didn’t question your morality. I did try to pose this thread in a non-threatening manner to get some Christian perspectives on these real world issues. Morals are defined as “principles of right and wrong in behavior”. So the question becomes, where do draw your rights and wrongs from. As Christians we are called to form those from the divinely written Word of God. Furthermore, we are called to read and follow the Word, not just the parts we like or don’t like. Again, that’s why in this thread I was asking for the perspective of Christians or other religious people. If you are religious, I would love to hear why these things are “moral” or in-line with “religious” values?

I will say one other thing and that’s about questioning or judgment as other may call it. Again, I say this without knowing your religious perspective, be as a Christian I am called to make a difference in this world. I am called to prophecy the Word of God and if someone were claiming to be in the word but living and recruiting people from the word then again I am called to question, judge, or whatever you wish to call it.

“””I do not happen to hold YOUR interpretation on the morality of sex outside of marriage (premarital sex), but I can assure you that you will never meet a more moral person than me.”””

The interpretation that I hold is based on scripture and my understanding there of. Have I fallen short of the word in my life? Many times…. If you are a Christian and have a different interpretation of the scripture, I’d love to discuss it and frankly I’d love to hear under which scripture FWB and Pre-Marital sex would be justified as something to glorify God, rather than man exercising self-will to glorify himself.

”””You believe in God in your way and I will in mine.”””

Again, if you are a Christian and claim beliefs that go against the word then it’s my obligation to point that out especially if that is being preached to other believers. You sound like a very learned man, have you ever read Screwtape Letters? Me or somebody else not addressing things that go against the Word would be like letting the Nephew in the book run wild.

“””We will let God be the judge of who is and is not moral.”””

And he shall as it says in Galatians 6:7-9: " Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap. 8 For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting. 9 And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not."

But again, that does not stop me from promoting, teaching, and sharing in God’s word nor should it stop anyone for pointing out what is against His word with other Christians.

“””Whatever makes you think that everyone who comes to this site is a Christian?”””

I don’t and again that is why I specially addressed this thread to Christians as a place to discuss these issue’s. If a sinner is weak in temptation maybe I or someone else can help them.


Hugz, Thoughtz, & Prayerz

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Read your first sentence again. You write: "recent threads have brought sadness for the morality of our friends"

That is a prima facie judgement by direct implication. It is the exact same thing as saying "some of our friends are immoral and that makes me sad." So in reality, you didn't question my morals, you flat our judged me to be immoral. Perhaps that was not your intent, but that is the way it happened. And I have to say, after having read so many of your other posts, I was shocked that you would post this.

I do not question your interpretation of scripture or your Christian values. They are yours and I must respect them. You must also respect mine. The Harleys have gone to great lengths to keep this site wholly secular and I believe that we should honor that as well. To my thinking, your questionhas no place in this forum. There are religious sections of this forum for the discussion of religious topics. If you wish to discuss what you consider the shortcomings of other with other Christians, take it to a Christian forum or a Bible study group. I'm calling you down. Where you in a group therapy situation, the group moderator would call you down too. A place like this is not one where you should ever consider pitting your religious beliefs against another's. It is counter-productive to the purpose of support forum, since all it can ever do is alienate and divide.

No, I do not discuss religion with people on the internet. I have tried this in the past and found it to be a waste of time. You do not know who you are dealing with and there is no way that someone who was brought up being taught that the Bible is not meant to be interpreted literally will ever be able to see eye-to-eye with a Funamentalist who was taught the opposite. And the Bible was only the start of my spiritual quest.

Yes, faithhopelove04, LH has been reading the FWB thread, wherein I describe my FWB relationship. So he most assuredly is judging me. I do not believe LH was trying to start a board war, but this kind of post most assuredly will. That's why I deliberately responded somewhat harshly.

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“””That is a prima facie judgment by direct implication.”””

HUH?...... I’m a simple Kansas boy and ain’t into all those big words.

“””So in reality, you didn't question my morals, you flat our judged me to be immoral. Perhaps that was not your intent, but that is the way it happened.”””

Again, my intent was to start a discussion among a portion of this board that profess faith. By my, and what I believe to be the majority of Christians, some of these actions of recent discussion are immoral. Further, in your thread I saw someone who professed faith teetering between right and wrong. In Christianity there are absolutes. While being respectful and tolerant of your views, I started my own thread rather than crash yours, I can see that you don’t extend the same respect and tolerance.

“””You must also respect mine.”””

As a member of these boards I feel I did by not crashing your thread. As a Christian it’s my obligation to point out things that go against the word of God PERIOD.

“””To my thinking, your question has no place in this forum.”””

And to my thinking, a thread about non-committal sex has no place on a “marriage BUILDERS” forum.

“””If you wish to discuss what you consider the shortcomings of other with other Christians, take it to a Christian forum or a Bible study group.”””

Because my views are different from yours, I should go somewhere else to express them? That doesn’t make a lot of sense to me.

“””It is counter-productive to the purpose of support forum”””

IMVHO what is counter productive to this forum is pushing views that go against the principles in which this forum is based upon and the Harley’s teachings like Radical Honesty, which if memory serves me correct you oppose.

Again ((Check)), this is a thread for like minds to come together like many other threads started on these boards for support, validation, and comfort. And again, I truly wish that you would have exercised the restraint, respect, and tolerance for my thread that I did for the one you posted to.


Hugz, Thoughtz, & Prayerz

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I'm not responding to the subject at this point--lack of time for me to post my normal length post. But I will say that while this board may be a secular board, I have posted many times with questions or things to bounce off of people who share my Christian beliefs. Those people who don't share my beliefs or feel comfortable responding don't have to. I feel the same about others' posts on here. If I disagree with a particular thread's subject matter, I don't have to respond. However, I see nothing wrong with starting a separate thread of my own related to that other thread. I just don't think my thread should be used to specifically identify someone to tear them down, but more should be used to gather other points of view which I thought was what LH was doing.

LL

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LH: I for one see no problem in anything you wrote. This might be due to the fact that I also believe in God - or it might not. This is a public forum and I appreciate your questions and comments as much as anyones. I am the one who started the FWB thread in connection with a personal situation and simply desired input from all who cared to respond. I didn't feel that you called me out nor do I feel that you think bad of me for starting it. And even if you did/do have a problem with the fact that I started that thread - I would be fine with it because I know my position on the subject.

Perhaps Check is having a bad day - heck we all have them! He is a valuable contributor to this forum and I always look forward to reading his thoughts. The one thing we can always count on about religion - is that it's sparks passion in people. And passion is a good thing as far as I'm concerned.

As to your questions:

Quote
From the Religious peeps out there, I’d love to hear your views on dating, sex, and the whole FWB proposition. If you are Religious and living and choosing one of these lifestyles, I’d also love to hear what your views are on that. I fully realize and appreciate that we all fall short in the glory of God, so with that understanding, let’s not make this a thread of persecution but rather one of fellowship, each learning from the other.


I guess since I believe in God - that means I fall into the "religious peep" category and can tell you that my particular view on having sex outside marriage is that I should not. However, I will also tell you that I am not 100% sure that my belief is Biblically correct only due to the fact that I have been married before. (Here come the 2x4's!!!) I will tell you that I rejected the FWB sitch and also that I am researching the sex-after-divorce notion as to how it applies to me in the Biblical sense. Like you, I do not wish to get into a "religious debate" about this - at least not on your thread.

I hope this answered your question(s).

FR


You gain strength, courage, and confidence by every experience in which you stop to look fear in the face. Challenges can be stepping stones or stumbling blocks. It’s just a matter of how you look at them. The purpose of life is to live it, to reach out eagerly and without fear for newer and richer experience
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I understand your intent, LH, but you went about it all wrong. That's what I called you on. You took God's right - judgement of morality - onto yourself. A Christian is never supposed to do that. If you feel it is a sin, then you do not do it. If someone asks you your opinion about something so personal, they yes, tell them what you feel. Yet you should never do this unsolicited, because many people will find it offensive. And you should never forget that Jesus told the crowd "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone." Undersand what I am saying?

"By my, and what I believe to be the majority of Christians, some of these actions of recent discussion are immoral."

You did it again. By whose standard? Yours and no doubt many others. Yet, there are just as many others who subscribe to a completely different standard. We would ask: How can a discussion be immoral?

BTW, thanks for the hug!

LL, I don't have a problem with someone coming in here and asking questions other Christians. Even on a secular board, there's nothing wrong with this, though I have participated moderated boards that prohibit and will not approve such posts for publication because they require the discussions to remain purely secular. Normally, I do not participate in strictly religious discussions, but leave them to those who enjoy them.

I can understand that LH feels that any sexual contact outside the confines of marriage is immoral. He flatly stated that he feels the poeple who do such things are immoral. Had he not included this judgental statement, he would have recieved no response form me at all. His would simply have been a thread in which I would not have participated.

I've read the materials on this site and I can find nowhere where it speak out against extra-marital sex except for adultry. Nor have I once read anything about morality in any of Harley's materials. This site is about helping people build strong marriages, not to impose any particular religious belief or morality. If it did, as all therapist understand, it would fail utterly. Therapists never question a client's belief system because it is unethical for them to do so.

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(((FR)))

“””I didn't feel that you called me out nor do I feel that you think bad of me for starting it.”””

Good, cause no I didn’t call anyone out. And to be honest with you FR, that you started such a thread or actively questioned your belief and heart is a wonderful thing.

“””Perhaps Check is having a bad day - heck we all have them!”””

Perhaps…. Or perhaps is something deeper. I dunno. I will say he does have a history with the theological arguments.

“””However, I will also tell you that I am not 100% sure that my belief is Biblically correct only due to the fact that I have been married before. (Here come the 2x4's!!!) I will tell you that I rejected the FWB sitch and also that I am researching the sex-after-divorce notion as to how it applies to me in the Biblical sense. “””

FR, I don’t recall your situation or the events surrounding your divorce. I will say that for me a wonderful resource in not only processing my divorce but defining my views about S E X was 1st Corinthians, specifically chapters 6 and 7.


Hugz, Thoughtz, & Prayerz

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Ok... I'm going to be a pain in the butt here.

If I believe cows are sacred, does that meet the definition of "religious", and my viewpoint is welcomed in this thread?

This is a world wide community anymore. To be honest, I don't mind the thread. I don't mind if someone wants to solicit a particular viewpoint. I do mind sloppy thinking, particularly from someone as well spoken and well thought out as LH.

If you want North American Evangelical Christian viewpoints on FWB, then just say it. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> But then, really you're just asking for a cultural point of view, aren't ya, and morality or lack thereof is just deviation from culture? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Ok... I'm going to shut up now...


~Big Guy

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"I will say he does have a history with the theological arguments."

What? LH, I almost never make theological arguments on this site. I avoid religious discussions like the plague unless I know who I am talking to and what they will bring to the discussion. I generally limit them to ministers and learned theologians. So I am not sure where this comes from. There have a few people here who I've notice attempt to turn every discussion into a religious discussion and I've made a few comments. I do remember one case where some guy took somehting I said and tried his best to make it seem as if I was trying to discuss the theory of evolution and all I did was tell him (repeatedly) that he was way OT.

Now, since I really have nothing to add to this discussion in its real intent, I will bow out and leave it to those who wish to discuss the issue from a religious perspective.

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“””I understand your intent, LH, but you went about it all wrong.”””

Thank goodness you are here to set me straight….lol…

“””You took God's right - judgment of morality - onto yourself….And you should never forget that Jesus told the crowd "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone."””

Let’s look at the act of judging for a moment and since you’ve thrown up a scripture, maybe I can round one up to.

Was Hitler right or wrong to attempt the extermination of Jews and should he be held responsible for the death of so many? Only three possible answers can be given: 1) "yes or no, he was wrong or not wrong" (in which case that is a judgment); and, 2) "I can not give an answer, because that is for a higher authority to judge". Or,

If a lady friend of yours is raped, would the rapist be wrong?
The same answers apply. Or,

Your car was stolen and when the police found it, it was stripped of all usable parts; would the thief be wrong? Same answers. Or,

A child tells you something you know, and you know that he or she knows, to be untrue; is lying wrong? The same answers apply here too. Or,

A mother abuses her child by leaving the child unattended for hours while she goes out clubbing. Right or wrong? Still, the same answers are applicable.

Sure there are different levels of judgment but as a matter of fact we all make judgments every day and we are charged to do so.

"So give your servant a discerning heart to govern your people and to distinquish between right and wrong..." I Kings 3:9. [King Solomon's prayer to Jehovah.]

"...judge your neighbor fairly...rebuke your neighbor frankly so that you will not share in his quilt." Leviticus 19:15-17.

"By Myself I can do nothing; I judge only as I hear [from God], and my judgement is just, for I seek not to please myself but Him who sent me." St. John 5:30

"The spiritual man makes judgements about all things [examines, investigates, inquires into, questions, and weighs all things]..." I Corinthians 2:15.

I don’t know who said it, but I have this quote saved on my computer ”It is necessary, at times, to explain our understanding of Scripture, and even to elaborate on sin, what God thinks of it, and of the destiny of sinful actions and people -- especially if we have a deep love and concern for those God has placed in our world. But, we must NEVER condemn people or write them off; for as long as they breath, God's Spirit of Love will work on the callousness of their hearts. As Christians, our goal, our love must be the same as our heavenly Father's -- to show people that He cares for them and wants them to have victory in their lives.”

I, ((Check)), have that love for mankind.

“””By whose standard? Yours and no doubt many others. Yet, there are just as many others who subscribe to a completely different standard.”””

And again, Check, that’s fine and again that’s why I qualified this thread for Christians.

”””BTW, thanks for the hug!”””

Ur welcome and BTW I do love you, brother, even if our views are different.

”””What? LH, I almost never make theological arguments on this site. I avoid religious discussions”””

Well, LOL, if I remember correctly the discussion with evolution vs creation with High Flight. And again, if I remember correctly, you avoided the discussion much like this one in post after post after post…..

Bottom line, Check. There is an issue and we are on polar ends. You’ve stated, advised, warned, and promoted your view point on a thread. I respected that and formed another thread to state, advise, warn, and promote my view point and for some reason you have chosen to not respect that. I didn’t call you out, I called out the issues. You chose to engage with me whether it be from pride or whatever.

If you’d like me to expand this topic to be just about you I’d be more than happy to do so. If you’d like me to say that I believe a FWB relationship is immoral, again I’d be happy to do so and quote plenty of scripture in doing so. But I don’t think that would help anyone because it’s obvious that the basis for our morals on this issue comes from different places.


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(((The Bid Guy)))

First off, if posting your Match.com addy down there is to try and solicit me for a date, it ain’t gonna work….. I’m married buddy.

“””Ok... I'm going to be a pain in the butt here.”””

I’d expect nothing less from you….lol….I’m just kidding…..

”””I do mind sloppy thinking, particularly from someone as well spoken and well thought out as LH.”””

Interesting thought. I don’t quite grasp what you’re saying but it is thought provoking.

”””If you want North American Evangelical Christian viewpoints on FWB, then just say it.”””

Actually, I thought I did say that….. But seriously, I was wanting a discussion with people of faith who may be confused by these issues. People who have been through he!! on earth, had there lives thrown into pieces, and are now trying to find where they fit in and where their views on these issues is.


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Quote
First off, if posting your Match.com addy down there is to try and solicit me for a date, it ain’t gonna work….. I’m married buddy.

That's it! I'm cancelling my subscription! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Quote
Interesting thought. I don’t quite grasp what you’re saying but it is thought provoking.

The sloppy thinking is assuming that either 1) when you asked for "religious" viewpoints that only North American Evangelical Christians qualified and/or 2) FWB, etc. are considered immoral for all religions.

I knew you were looking for the Christian viewpoint, but the thing is, even among Christians, what is considered moral and immoral varies.

Ok, enough nitpicking.... and yes, nits are pretty small.

By many standards I am considered a religious person and even a person of faith. I don't personally take care of widows and orphans and I'm certainly not unstained by the world, so maybe not so much. But here is where I stand.

Since Christ came to the world to render the Law useless, then as Paul says, all things are permissible, but not all things are beneficial. Is it immoral to eat pork? Is it immoral to remain uncircumcised? If I were bound by the Law, then the answer is yes. But, I am no longer bound by the law. So, I can do these things and not consider myself an immoral person.

Ok, so then is it ok to commit murder since I am no longer bound by the law? No, of course not. Paul asks since all things are permissible do I continue to do whatever I want? I think he says "God Forbid".

So, if some things that were immoral under the law (pork, circumcision) are no longer considered immoral and yet some things that were immoral under the law are still considered immoral (murder), then where is the line? How do I determine what is immoral or conversely moral (God like) under the new "law" which is the blood of Christ?

Herein lies my fundamental core value system which I adopted as a child.

Every decision I make or action I take has either a constructive value, destructive value, or it is neutral. Constructive is that which promotes order, harmony, happiness and love (OHHL). Destructive are those things that take away from OHHL. Neutral does neither. Constructive decisions/actions are moral (God like), Destructive decisions/actions are immoral, and Neutral is neither.

Ok, if you've made it this far, congratulations, cause I probably wouldn't have.

So, lets apply this value system to eating pork. Does my eating pork promote or detract from OHHL? Personally I think it does neither, so it is a neutral decision and thus neither moral or immoral. Now if I find out that eating pork causes cancer, then to eat it is immoral. Same with circumcision. Murder is very destructive, and therefore an immoral act.

So, lets apply this to FWB. Is FWB a destructive or constructive decision? In and of itself, two consenting adults agreeing to meet various ENs without being fully committed BUYERS is only potentially destructive (immoral).

Rental situations are not inherently destructive (immoral), but I believe they are potentially destructive (immoral). How many "marriages" are Rental situations? Does that mean that half of the marriages are immoral situations?

So... do I recommend FWB? No, I don't because of the potential destruction. But, I put it on par with gossiping. Do I recommend that someone gossip? No, I don't. But I'm not going to have a conniption fit if they do.


~Big Guy

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Hi LH

I haven't read all the responses on here, but I'm sure this is a hot topic of debate

I am a Christian, and I do, with all good intention, hope to continue to abstain from sex until I marry again. I have many reasons for this decision, one being my faith and another being my daughter (there are more, but you get the gist). Is it easy... ummmm, not a chance! Is it possible...yes, but it has to be a desire as well as a conviction

However, I do realize that once I met Mr. The Rest of My Life, and we fall in love, the draw to want to be together is all aspects is a very strong pull. It will take a great deal of prayer and will to wait.....passion can and does carry away, even with the best of intentions.

FWIW <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />


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Bill, I'm glad you started this thread. I don't post much here anymore, but I read here pretty frequently - except that over the last week or so I have come very close to a decision to abandon these boards completely. One of the reasons is a growing sense that my perspectives are irrelevant to what people are willing to hear.

At the center of my life is my relationship with God, and the foundation of how I walk out my faith is the Bible. Some of what I read in the Bible is troubling. Some of it is ambiguous. But some of it is very clear.

My perspective on Biblical morality is that it is not an arbitrary system of rules which God imposes upon us in order to test us, nor is it a lofty ideal which God gave us to admire but which He couldn't possibly expect us to really try to follow. Rather, I believe that Biblical morality is a set of life principles which God laid out for us for our own good. This does not appear to be a popular viewpoint. Christianity - at least in North American culture - seems to be treated largely as a smorgasbord of ideas, some of which are helpful and some of which are outmoded. We pick out what matches our taste - what we think will make us feel good - and we leave the rest. Then we claim that we have experienced what God intended for us.

To me, "falling short" is not really the issue. It is sad when we do so, since there are consequences that we cannot fully escape, whether those consequences are to our own lives or to God's glory. But when we fall down, God offers a hand to help us up again, and there is once again opportunity for God's love and mercy to be manifested. What is really sad, in my opinion, is when we decide it's perfectly fine down here on the ground, and we reject God's plan for our lives in favor of our own blind improvisation.

There is a lot of room for interpretation and application when it comes to issues of divorce and dating and remarriage. But I believe the Bible is quite clear about the matter of sex outside of marriage, and it leaves no room for such behavior.


Profile: male in mid forties
History: deserted after 10+ years of marriage, and divorced; no communication since the summer of 2000
Status: new marriage October 2008
Joined: Jan 2001
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Well, you are sure interjecting your religious beliefs now, LH and in a very disrespectful and highly judgemental way.
Judgemental? I'll grant you that, CheckUrHeart. One definition (from Merriam-Webster) for "judgement" is "the process of forming an opinion or evaluation by discerning and comparing." That certainly applies, as LostHusband has a long track record here of demonstrating both opinions and discernment.

The "disrespectful" bit I'm having more of a problem with. What Bill said is that he felt "sadness." I'm really having to stretch to see this as disrespectful. To be sure, he wouldn't be sad unless he believed that his own religious perspective offered a better and healthier way of living, but it seems to me that an attitude of disrespect would lead to contempt rather than compassion.

I'm not clear on where you see the problem, CheckUrHeart. Do you have a problem with the fact that Bill dares to consider his opinion to be better-founded than someone else's? I hope not, because not only would that go beyond PC to the point of nonsensical, but it would also be hypocritical: some of your own recent posts have been pretty darned patronizingly judgemental.

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Frankly, I don't care to know what the religious peeps think about these issues. That is their business, not mine. Such matters are between them and God and should not be for public consumption.
CheckUrHeart, how dare you try to assert your moral position regarding what is suitable for public discourse, based on your arbitrary values?

You can't have it both ways.

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You write: "recent threads have brought sadness for the morality of our friends." That is a prima facie judgement by direct implication. It is the exact same thing as saying "some of our friends are immoral and that makes me sad." So in reality, you didn't question my morals, you flat out judged me to be immoral.
Prima facie? To Whom? Not to me. You offer a false dichotomy, and one based on an unnatural interpretation. Bill specifically referred to "the morality of our friends" (emphasis mine). He did not say "the immorality of our friends." Morality is neither a binary condition nor a linear measure. Rather, there are many different moral systems, and to suggest that someone espouses or adheres to a different moral system does not imply that that person is completely unprincipled.

And by the way, I do know that Bill later referred to specific actions as immoral, which he did in an explicitly stated context of Christianity. If you want to blow that up into some sort of character assault, there's no way anyone can stop you. But you've got no right to expect to receive respect for it.

Joined: Jul 2005
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TBG posted:
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If you want North American Evangelical Christian viewpoints on FWB, then just say it.

To which LH replied:
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Actually, I thought I did say that…..

Ummm... no... You said:
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From the Religious peeps out there, I’d love to hear your views on dating, sex, and the whole FWB proposition.

If I am a devout Buddhist or Hindu, I am Religious. That does not make me a "North American Evangelical Christian" by a longshot. The fact is I am none of the above, and therefore I should ?? be excluded from this thread?? Not normally the way we conduct business at MB...

Further, LH says:
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But seriously, I was wanting a discussion with people of faith who may be confused by these issues. People who have been through he!! on earth, had there lives thrown into pieces, and are now trying to find where they fit in and where their views on these issues is.

I have a problem with this particular paragraph, because the implication is that people of faith are the only people who have been through he!! on earth, had their lives thrown into pieces, etc... Somehow, this particular paragraph minimizes MY journey: my pain, my shattered life, my struggle to get my feet back under me after a divorce that I didn't want, my subsequent recovery and entry back into the difficult world of dating for 40 somethings.

I'm hoping that is not how it was meant...

I'm not so much troubled by the Christianity thing. I deal regularly with "North American Evangelical Christian" sisters and parents. Most of the time we can agree to disagree. I'm always, here and at home, more troubled by the judging that seems to go on by people who should be living by the Word of God - which was pretty clear when He said "Judge not, lest ye be judged" and was then repeated by His Son in different words later on: "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone."

Perhaps you don't think you are casting stones or judging, but you are definitely drawing a line in the sand between what you deem as "people of faith" (as well as pretty narrowly defining who they are and what they are) and those you deem as people without.

CS


Crystal Singer -------------------- What about love? I only want to share it with you - You might need it someday ... Heart - from the album Heart
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