I am not a fan of imposing NC or verification on a WS.

well gee 2long no one in there right mind is 'for' imposing NC or verification on a spouse..

that would be quite the exercise in futility in attempting to control another...

I for one much prefer a person setting limits and boundaries in their own universe and politely informing the other of such..as in..

dear spouse...
while I am sure I can not and would not ever tell you to whom you can or can not speak to...you need to know that the intrusion of third party in MY marriage is unacceptable to ME... and that while you are free to choose to continue to commincate with such person ...I also am free to choose not to be with someone who makes such harmful hurtful decisions over and over and over and over..............

Like now, my W hasn't "really" volunteered either NC or verification, though she has acknowledged that she does need NC 2 start recovering without resetting the clock every time

her recovery right???

2long...I don't believe for a minute that your wife is interested in your recovery at all....
that if she does go no contact it will be ID EGO driven in some way of not being in a high frontal lobe pissing contest with the new wifey to be........and that the decision to be in contact or not to contact...will be made with no thought given to what it could or does mean to you..............

wouldn't be at all surprised if contact happens again at some point. If it does, I hope she learns something from it

Man I wish I had been given such a learning curve in my life....
so many damaging me me me feels good things I could have accomplished...

I offer my OPINION not to annoy you
not to make you feel bad ...this is just cyber hyperbole on one hand...........

but because 2long...I think you have the tools a fullfilling self worthy relationship...............
but you are a little fogged and scared......

I will leave you alone...but know my silence doesn't mean that I don't care..
and know I hope you are right...for surely you have your finger on the pulse of things more than I....

ARK

2long, you always think "I'm doing this right, though."

Wasn't the 4th of July supposed to be some sort of deadline? Then Labor Day? Nothing ever seems to change.

I'm with the earlier post that says eat it or leave it. I don't think anything is going to change in your situation. If there's NC, it's because Rat Meat wants it that way. And when he wants to resume (perhaps first time he and chicky-poo have their first inevitable problems), he will.

You are very persuasive, 2, with all your palaver. But in the end, it just seems like a long justification for doing nothing. Go back and look over your past posts, about how you are always on the verge of acting, but then decide not to.

What you are getting from WW is all you are going to get. She doesn't want to change. That's all there is in the box. Can you live with that?

Don't wish to be mean, 2, but nothing ever seems to move in this one. It seems one, long stasis. And maybe that's okay...

I think this is the most beautiful post, from one of the most beautiful people I have ever read.

And I for one hold enough respect for this guy to think he might know what is best for him, his W and his family.

He opened this thread for support in trying to work through the new development of positive communication and a new hope of rebuilding with his wife, and got mostly advice that was in direct conflict with the way he said he wanted to go in his sitch.

There is sometimes, especially in the case of a thirty year marriage when the partner knows what is best for all involved. And where that partner considers the individuals involved to be as, if not more important than the contract of marriage.

He doesn't want to destroy his wife, and he feels that a Plan B would do that, even though HE may be able to walk away and start over at this point.

And he thinks that now is the time that she is most open to committing to the marriage.

That is uncondtional love in my opinion.

And this is only my take on the sitch from following it so closely for so long, but I feel compelled to post it anyway.

Just a friendly "Hi" to you 2Long.

-AD

2long, do you agree that sometimes it's an act of love to turn away from someone?

Did you ever read any of M. Scott Peck's books? Some of what he writes makes sense. Some of it is just silly, like when he extrapolates the 2nd law of thermodynamics into something metaphysical. Man it bugs me when people do that.

Anyhow, There's some interesting stuff in The Road Less Traveled when he distinguishes between "neurotic disorders" and "character disorders".

I'm not trying to give you advice. You've got conditions older than me.

But I just realized something - Since a few weeks ago, I'm old enough to be President. Hm. Maybe I should try and give you advice.

Since we all know how wise Presidents are.

Here I go swinging at ideas like there's a bee in my car.

GC

well Weaver...

2long is well aware of my and his differing opinions on unconditional love in ACTION

so while I may suscribe to the ability to love someone no matter what..
I can not suscribe to unconditional love in action that harms the giver and denies them not even entitled things for we are not entitled...but basic common respect and decency....

there in lies my core disagreement with 2longs approach...

let me say that I have only felt bad about my posts to him (you) 2long
and I apologize sincerely for my 'meanness' in my descriptions of his wife..

I am sure that 2longs wife is lovely and has many many good qualitities....and I am wrong to paint such pictures of her...for those things aren't all she is..and I get that..

I believe that in her core being she knows exactly the impact of her choices and actions ..that she is highly intelligent..

weaver I also hold great respect for 2long...but when you say he came here for support...I am at a loss of what he wants to be supported on..

the no-boundary request for no contact
the no boundary request for disclosure
etc
etc
etc...

here's the thing 2long..if I went to my husband and said...
when I travel I don't even miss you...

you know what my husband would say..
crap or get off the pot...
do you want to fix that issue
or do you want to walk....

because what my husband doesn't do is entertain nebulous marital complaints that are spoken with NO intent to address one way or the other...........


they become pointless complaints piling up in the corner,.
and he does not entertain the throwing out of painful show stoppers with no real meaning...for entertainment..

If I were say something as big as that red marital flag is..
he would
1. assume I really really mean what I am saying
2. have said it for a reason...either lets fix this issue or lets acknowledge it and do something..

but your wife says such things..
and no one flinches...
which then forces one to even doubt their validity and ASSUME they are just whiney poor me mantras to get attention...

either his wife ACKNOWLEDGES that saying such a statement is something worth addressing one way or the other..or she is smart enough to know there is NO point in saying it if she doesn't PLAN on fixing it...
so in the end does she just say those things to wound??

OR can she say any hurtful thing she wants..because nothing ever changes................

I am having a hard time to find any type of ACTION plan to support...

2long you do have my support...
but sir..
you don't have any plan that I can see.......
and the just wait plan really isnt' a plan now is it...
for real?

I just end up feeling more and more awful the more I post on this.....BUT when I let them go by without speaking my OPINION I feel bad as well

and I don't believe that 2long is only interested in opinion posts that support his every move....he's smart enough to know he can skip any and all that I say...and I'm smart enough to not be offended or hurt.......
and I think he is as well...
the man's got his finger on the pulse on the universe...surely I am nothing more than speck of space dust in the total picture............

ARK

You and everyone else too I am sure because everyone does truly care.

For me when my opinion is so different from those who I admire so much (such as you) I just need to keep trying to figure out why I feel differently and why they feel like they do. Because I really want to understand others POV's, even if I never agree, I can respect how they feel and see the merits in it. And learn.

I was shocked at the Plan B suggestion because isn't there a big chance that the conditions of the Plan B will never be met, and then the spouses will never speak to each other again.

Isn't that the way Plan B goes when it doesn't bring about reconcilliation?

And to me it just seems like if she is starting to open up to him, and even agree to read a thread he has asked her to read (for the first time) that she is starting to trust in him and a new friendship is happening?

Isn't there a possibility that the dynamics are beginning to change and that a Plan B now would destroy that?

There is no substance abuse or physical abuse to be protected from as in the case of many here who should go into Plan B and don't.

And he says he is past the point of needing Plan B for protection and has no desire to hurt his W and would like to help her come through this and have her re-unite with him in a committed way of her own accord. I think he feels a Plan B would be too damaging for all.

I don't know, I guess everyone see things differently.

That is the beauty of getting responses from different people I believe.

I was shocked at the Plan B suggestion because isn't there a big chance that the conditions of the Plan B will never be met, and then the spouses will never speak to each other again.

weaver isn't that true with anything....
plan B conditions are only ever met when they are met with meaning...
if his wife wants reconcilliation than she will have to work it....

not 2long..
he has only offered reconcilliation all along...and she hasn't chosen yet.......

three years weaver...
three years and she won't even stop contact knowing it hurts her own husband...

three years....

ARK

Three years and counting ....

Look at how this reasoning is fear-based .... "will never speak to each other again" .... you know that's not true.

If there is a "big chance that the conditions of plan B will never be met" ... then there is a big chance that the affair will never end.

True confessions: I don't miss anyone, either. I don't miss my kids when their out of town, and I don't miss my spouse. I don't particularly miss people when they die. Doesn't say anything about my feelings. Just means I don't think about people and things who aren't there. I'm just hooked up that way.

So I think this means nothing.



But he's not beyond needing Plan B to protect himself from the vague, lingering, decades-long hope that this are slowly getting better, that we're just about to turn a corner.




Well, maybe. But slowly coaxing her into a friendship on her terms, now that her lover has split, is not the same as a hard, punishing work of recovery after a 14-year-or-so affair. She still doesn't "get it."

I, too, hope I'm wrong. I hope 2long's patience and endurance pays off at last. We all want 2long to win. And I'm not even advocating Plan B -- separation from lover has already occurred with the passage of years. What I am advocating, I guess, is movement.

But if this were a new poster saying this stuff -- what would we say?

I don't know that this is fear based, as there is a very real possibility of Plan B ending in divorce, or after the divorce (if it comes to that) do you just drop the plan B and decide to be friendly?

Is there such a thing as being friends after Plan B without reconciliation? Does Plan B end when the divorce occurs?

I'm not trying to be cute I truly don't understand this part of it.



AM,

I thought your question about what we would say if this were a new poster was a very good question, and I really don't know what I would say.

And I don't post to new posters anymore for reasons along this line.

I think the theory is that Plan B ends when divorce proceedings begin.

But since Plan B is to protect myself, I didn't see why I should end it with D. And, come to think of it, I think my PBL is a good excuse for lifetime silence. Why would I want to talk to a guy who treats me like this?

That's very different from 2long's situation ... but I think the point about ending Plan B with D is Harley's.

Love you folks!

I'm going 2 take some time off. Maybe a long time off. But I feel like singing about it. So, from the good old days of "avante guarde" rock music, before there was even the term, and with the good old "Melotron" as backup (before Moog synthesizers 2k off, even)...

"Exiles" -King Crimson.

"Now... ...in this faraway land
Strange... ...that the palms of my hands
Should be damp with expectancy.

Spring... ...and the air's turning mild.
City lights... ...and the glimpse of a child,
Of the alleyway infantry.

Friends... ...do they know what I mean?
Rain... ...and the gathering green
Of an afternoon out-of-town.

But Lord I had to go.
My trail was laid too slow behind me.
To face the call of fame
Or make a drunkard's name for me.

But now this better life
Has brought a different understanding.
And from these endless days
Shall come a broader sympathy.
And though I count the hours,
To be alone's no injury...

My home... ...was a place by the sand.
Cliffs... ...and a military band
Blew an air of normality."

signing off for now, with much love.
-ol' 2long

2Long,

Wait!

2Long,

I can imagine - only imagine - how you feel. I, for one, completely respect your ... right? ... more than right - we're not talking about rights here...

I respect your freedom to chose your path - and I respect you for your integrity in being yourself.

Only you know what is best for you, ultimately.

You're a fine man and I'm glad to have "met" you on MB. You have my email. Send a note anytime.

-AD

Peace to you 2L!

2Long, CSue said it perfectly. Peace, our friend.


slh

I think you'll let us know if your W has an epiphany or something. Otherwise, I also, wish you peace. I will miss you.