Recap of my story - married for 11 years, first M for both, no children. H had A that resulted in OC. Currently he has NC with C & OW. He would like to see OC but has agreed not to because I'm not comfortable with it.

H has been in therapy for just under a year and seems to like his counselor. We started joint weekly sessions about a month ago. I do not really like this counselor - he is usually late, looks at his watch the whole time we're there, and in the beginning really pushed me to reconsider my need for there to be NC between H and OC because "children need their parents". He's backed off of that after I very strongly stated that I would rather not be M than have to deal with OC & OW and that the issue was not negotiable. But my real problem with this guy is that even though my H had been seeing him on his own for several months he did not know the whole story of our situation. Now I know he can only know what H tells him, but they were pretty basic facts that I would have thought he would have asked. He has been focusing on how we can strengthen our M, which I know we need to do, but I sincerely think nothing will change long term unless H figures out what about his personality allowed this to happen in the first place. The counselor agrees with that but wants to get into that "later".

I am only hesitant to change counselors because H seems to like him, H took the initiative to find him (which was a very positive step for us), and the insurance co will pay for our appointments there. This is our second counselor - the first one I found and neither of us liked her.

Disbelief,

Could you see this couselor by yourself and discuss what he knows (been told) about the basic facts? He probably has had an edited version of the truth, even if your H means well and is there for help. I think it is sometimes too hard to say ALL the events that make you look terrible.

I think it will be harder for you to heal and work on your M if you feel any of the A has been glossed over in counseling. I would speak frankly with the counselor before changing since he is in it this far. Ask him if he has a plan for your H when he talks about working on something "later". He could have some steps in mind, but it would help you to know that.

As far as the OW/OC are concerned, I think you are right to state firmly your opionions. Maybe they will change with time. Maybe not. I have seen all the stories written about the drama and continued pain for BW with contact. Mostly because of OW.

When I was trying to decide what I could do and live with, I felt a lot of guilt for not wanting to have anything to do with OW/OC situation. My counselor told me that no woman in her right mind would want that situation and NC was the way that our marriage would be able to be saved. That helped me alot. When I worried about the moral issues of my H not being the father for OC, our religious leaders told us that it was our duty to protect our marital unit and that H was not available to parent OC. Financial support, yes, but otherwise not available. My H said he had made it clear to OW that if she kept the child, she would basically be adopting it, because he could not be part of raising her. She used OC as leverage even after she was born to get him to leave our family, but now I guess she must have accepted it. Anyway, long ramble, but I understand how you feel.......I didn't agree to stay in my M and work this hard to now have contact with OW/OC. That was not what I signed up for. It is still non-negotiable for me, as well. I don't think it will ever change for me.

A good counselor is truly worth their weight in gold! If you are eventually not happy, look further. Even if you go alone first and then as H to switch. We moved in the last 2 months and I miss our counselor terribly. My H still sees him because he commutes back to our old area, but I am left out. Maybe a phone consultation............

You sound very strong! Good luck!

Thanks for your thoughts - this board is such a great way to get impartial perspectives. I do feel like this counselor "hears" me and has acknowledged my feelings, but I'm not sure he has the experience to deal with our issues - he has said he's never worked with anyone in our situation. I wonder if I will ever change my mind on NC. Sometimes I feel guilty for not being able to accept the OC into my life because he is so innocent in all of this and my H would probably be a great father. But then I think of all the problems that would be created with contact and having to deal with OW. One of my big issues is that because H and I don't have children I don't want him to experience all these first child events with the OC instead of our own. I know that sounds so selfish, but I can't help feeling that way. I wonder if once we get our M back on track and possibly have a C of our own if that will make me feel differently about the situation. May I ask how your H dealt with the decision of saving your M or seeing OC? I have used the adoption similarity in discussing this situation also, but along the lines of what I'm asking H to do is similar to what a woman does when she gives a child up for adoption - to let the child go so that everyone can have a chance at a "better" life. As much as I hate OW she probably is a decent mother. I also wonder if I am feeling this way to try and punish H - as a way to make him suffer a loss the way I have. I'm working very hard to sort through that because I know it's not a healthy thought. This is all so difficult, but it does help to know I'm not alone.

disbelief,
If you do not feel comfortable with the counselor, would you want to find a counselor for both? Your H will keep going to his counselor and a new counselor for both might be better.

Before xH went to IC ... we went to MC together ... the counselor suggested that because he needed to work issues on his own that he might wanted to get a IC for him. She said that she could not do it because she already saw the two of us together and it would not be fair.

On dealing with C with OC, what I'm trying to do is seeing it as the OC is from a previous marriage ... yes, I know he is not the truth but I know how to deal with that situation better (xH's first son was from his first marriage), then DD and now OC ...

I know I would never ask xH not to have C with OC <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />
xH does not have C with his first son because of other issues with his 1st xW ... but I live in peace knowing if was not something I asked or demanded ...kwim?
In the long run if someday he does not have C with OC, it is not going to be because of something I said or did.

When dealing with his first son, I also had to deal with the fact that it was not with me that he was sharing that <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Good luck!

Disbelief,

My H had to decide for himself on the issue of our M or OC. After the 2 D-Day (it seems most people have more than one!) he TOLD me that he was going to go NC. But what he did was get two secret phones that had picture and video capacity and gave one to OW to keep in touch and that he could see OC.........they live several states away. But he soon found out that it kept him "foggy" and that OW was not going to give up at ALL on breaking up our M. He was sent a consent stream of pictures, e-mails and voicemails daily. He came to the realization that HE couldn't do both......keep them going a little on the side and recommit to our M.

He told me he was able to reconcile somewhat about not seeing OC because he felt he had done everything he could do to help her get started and he knew she would be a good mom. Once he saw that he had no "say so" in OC being adopted, 1) he paid for everything for PG and delivery 2) he paid to get them settled in a house and supported them in the transition 3) paid for all OC furniture and baby clothes, 4) had always said he was not leaving him family prior to PG 5) when pg discovered, he told her he was not available to be the parent. He knew he would be paying CS and felt that OC was adopted by OW. She had to make that choice before OC was born.

She had told H repeatedly she was on BC pills, but she wasn't. Of course, he should have never trusted her with this statement and worn a condom anyway, but we all know that OW and MM never lie to each other so there is no reason to distrust! ha ha.

OW had been involved with MM before. She broke up one other M and then when MM divorced his BW, she decided she didn't want him anymore. One other MM didn't work either and she ended up loosing her job. I think she just wasn't going to LOSE this time and OC was her trump card! For everyone who thinks these PGs are always accidental, they are not. She was 43 and supposedly on the pill--her fertility rate would have been nearly sub-zero! We checked the stats! She also had been married to two men in 14 years and didn't get pregnant.....so I am assuming she knew how not to! She was not really on BC. H confirmed this later with her.

This has partly become a rant. Sorry. I just wanted to explain how H told me he was able to come to terms with not seeing OC. I know he still feels a bit badly about it, but he is taking care in what he can. Both the H and the W have to make their decisions on what they can live with. If our OW hadn't been determined that H divorce me and be with them, maybe I could have done something different. But that was not the case. She wanted to take my place, so I don't feel bad for her problems. She, of all people involved, knew what she was risking by getting pregnant. I have had to reconcile myself about OC, too.

I am sure to any OW these sound very inadequate and like she was bought off. But what else is there if a man is not going to be the parent? This is a situation that has no easy answers and someone is always hurt......thoughout the whole ordeal.

Belief, I hope this was helpful and your H can come to terms with what the two of you are working towards. My H and I really only started recovery when he stopped having C with OW. He would take several big steps back everytime he talked to her. You are going in the right direction!!

Stay positive!