My wife and I are at the brink of divorce.

She thinks we need a 6 month seperation so we can work on our marriage
but I am resisting.

I feel if I leave the house there is a 90% chance I will not come back.

She thinks being away from each other will give us time to understand
what is missing and work to fix it.

I see seperation as more of a dress rehersal for divorce. You know,
working out visitation with the children and learning to pay 2 sets of
bills.

She is calling the insurance company today to get us a marriage
conselor.

We are not ready to give up yet but I am running out of steam
and begining to see the end in sight.

Is seperation a good idea or do you think it might make the situation
worse?

Hugs, John.

Welcome, and sorry you have to be here.

Separation can be a good thing. It depends. A willy-nilly separation is usually a prelude to divorce, but it doesn't have to be.

First, have you been to marriage counseling at all before? Second, is that affair completely over? And third, do you have children?

All those factors come into play.

Read up on Plan A and Plan B, here on main section of the site. Plan B is a separation that is made when one spouse refuses to stop a destructive behavior. It is a complete separation in that the one spouse refuses all contact with the other spouse until the destructive behavior ends and a few other conditions are met. The separation actually preserves what little love is remaining in the marriage by keeping the two people apart. Please read up on BOTH Plan A and Plan B and the Love Bank concept.

Lee RAffel wrote a book about "controlled separations." The book is called "Should I Stay or Should I Go?" It's an excellent read. In a controlled separation, the two partners work together to negotiate the terms of the separation. Everything from when it starts and ends, to the finances, child/pet visition, and dating. Dating each other or others. It's all on the table. Usually couples have a counselor to help them through the negotiations. The act of negotiating the separation is part of the therapy. Then, the separation allows both people to get their heads cleared and find out a little about what life on their own is like. Most couples continue going to marriage counseling while in a controlled separation. Sometimes they go together, sometimes separately. Sometimes only one spouse goes. One very unique aspect of a CS is that it's limited in length. Raffel recommends not longer than 6 months. After that, you get back together and make a decision.

I hope this helps.

Ditto. GG's given you great advice. Make no decisions about a seperation until after you've been in councelling awhile. A SHORT seperation can help a couple who are at one another's throat and need a cooling off period. Most marriage therapists would disapproved of a six month seperation; it's just too long.

She thinks we need a 6 month seperation so we can work on our marriage
...
Sept 9, 2004 W revealed affair
lasted on and off for 10 Years.
I believe she wants a separation to continue her affair without you being "in the way".
Harley also states this is usually the case when a spouse in an affair requests a separation.
Also, a separation is almost always very harmful to a relationship unless some very strict guidelines are agreed upon before hand AND they are very stricly adhered to, which is almost never the case with a ws.
They usually use the separation to "be single" again. In all respects.

She thinks being away from each other will give us time to understand
what is missing and work to fix it.
This makes no sense althoug it is a typical comment from a ws.

EVERYTHING will be missing form your marriage if you separate. How will it help understand what is missing now?
How can you work to fix something if you are not involved in it?

As a cooling off period (if you are fighting as in "The War of the Roses"), a very short separation could be useful, but again, very strict guidelines should be in place BEFORE this is done.

So, I want to ask a question as I most likely will be asking my wife for a separation tomorow after meeting with a marriage counselor by myself because my wife there's nothing wrong. I know there is a 90% chance that if I say the word separation that my W won't come back. I'm not sure I want her to after what she's done to me. We aren't fighting the war of the roses. I've simply gone to plan b (tried plan a as much as I could when I found out about her online affair a year ago... My story is in many of my other posts... ) I'm treating her as a roommate as much as I can without letting her know I've found out again about her relationship. The reason for this secrecy is so I can meet with a counselor and devise a plan of action and responses and methods of handling the fall out when I bring separation up. I know in the past when it got close to this... She stated that if anything like this happens she wouldn't do anything but abandon her entire life and leave for her parrent's house 600 miles away and not come back.

So, my question is, if I ask for a separation to determine what to do next, and offer to her to come with to counseling if she wants to, and she just chooses to abandon me, do I just proceed with divorce proceedings? What if she refuses to pay any of the bills but takes things like the car that we have a car payment on and so on. I can't pay every bill by myself, I can pay 90% of them. I believe she'll even abandon her job, maybe even all of her belongings. She'll just walk out and get in one of the cars and drive 600 miles, no matter what time of day or night.

WW32,
So, I want to ask a question
You should start a new thread.

Have you read "Surviving An Affair"?

I've simply gone to plan b
Did you write Plan B letter?
You only have 23 posts here & I couln't find one posted.

I most likely will be asking my wife for a separation tomorow
You said you were doing Plan B.

What if she refuses to pay any of the bills but takes things like the car that we have a car payment on and so on
This is all sorted out before you go into Plan B.

do I just proceed with divorce proceedings?
You said you are asking for a separation. Why would you go straight to divorce?
Do you want a divorce? Don't even bring it up if you don't.

Read the links below.

NO, I meant, what if she refuses separation and just goes straight to "good bye, never see you again." I don't know if I can bear to stay with her anyways.

I've got a budget done up of how I can pay for everything if I'm careful.

However, she's a very emotional person and will abandon everything at the slightest hint of the word "separation".

She will immediately think I mean Divorce and just plan on it. There won't be any discussion, she'll just go for that.

I looked at her cell phone tonight, she's got the OM's phone number listed as "secret" so I can't view the number..

He has a server that she uploads and views videos of himself and sends videos herself to. before I knew about this sight I thought I'd fight him and give her all the love, emotional support I could possibly muster, avoiding anything that irritated her. But, nothing improved, I went through the questionaires with her, still nothing changed, she still talks to him. does stuff with him when I'm asleep, etc.

My plan B though I haven't directly mentioned it on here, it's in my head, is the following:

A) Talk to a marriage counselor ASAP.... Tomorow, subjects of discussion will be:
1. Find out options
2. Make a determination as to whether I am willing to waste more time and effort (I've wasted a year already) to save this train wreck at all or if I should total it.
3. What's the best way to confront My W. with everything that I have learned.
4. How to deal with the W if she goes crazy, where I"ll stay if she chooses not to leave right away, etc.
B. Draw up a budget of how I would pay the bills myself. I have a budget, I can pay about 95% to 100% of the bills pretty easily if I'm only supporting one person and change my payroll deductions around a bit.. i.e. have less taxes taken out, change health insurance to single instead of spouse coverage, simple things like that. -- so this is done, pretty much.

C. Decide on the confrontation time, environment, location, words. The words will be developed with the counselor.. Hope they have extra time.

D. Lastly, during the separation, determine if I'm better off with or without her in my future and at which time, deal with what to do with our stuff.

E. Decide on what to tell my parrents... With the counselor.



I want time alone to sort out what I want and if I can cope without her and see what she does with her life. If she abandons everything, it should be of no concern to me.

Irregardless of what happens, I plan on going to counseling on a weekly basis for a few months until I get things figured out. If she happens to go, it's totally up to her, but she been pretty resistant to it.

I've gotten books, for us to read together, she literally had a mental breakdown when one of the books was about repairing a relationship. She literally chewed me out and yelled at me for getting it, until she calmed down and I assured her it was a free book, that I didn't purposly order. Which I didn't, A acquaintance jus sent me 3 books that might help and the one she was extremely mad at me for was included. (books by Chuck Snyder.)

So, she is very closed to trying to repair our relationship, though she has done everything to keep her affair hidden from me. She mentioned the other night that she's found it hard to make sure videos she downloads are removed from her computer permanently. She was referring to music videos and stuff and tv-series clips that she likes to download (or that's what she wanted me to believe.) but it's actually the videos that she sends to him of herself that I find hidden within temporary files that she thought she deleted, but never got rid of them permanently.

Anyways, That's my rough sketch of plan B. I realize there's a lot of unknowns and I think, or at least am hoping that a majority of the questions will be answered in the counseling session. If the information is incomplete, or insufficient for a confrontation, I may have to put it off. But the longer it goes, the worse it is for me. As it is, I am almost ready to move out if she doesn't leave. Granted I couldn't afford that. I'm counting on her to leave..... I'm thinking of saying tomorow night or Friday night, you have until Monday to decide what you're going to do, but I can't be in the same house as you anymore after what you've done with my trust, my love, and my support of you. Then show her the logs and the movies and ask her if she remembers what I said about the last time she did this..

Anyways, These are my general plans, I hope to have a clearer picture tomorow afternoon. Maybe I'm expecting too much... But, I'm out of options. I've been sleeping 3 to 4 hours a night, I've been eating less than one meal a day, and I've lost 10 lbs in around a week's time. Problem is I had triglycerides up to whazoo (454, supposed to be 150 or less) before this, my cholesterol was high, I can't imagine what it's up to now. I guess what doesn't kill you makes you stronger? Hopefully this doesn't kill me.. I'm only 28.
Oh and my vision has become somewhat blurred in the past few days. I can't concentrate on my work. I have to ask her to separate. Of that I don't believe i have a choice.

If you have additional suggestions... Does the Marriage builders counseling center charge?

It's $65.00 a session for the counseling person I'm seeing (christian agency.)

ww32,
I don’t think you should “separate” in the way that you are referring to.
I think you should do a proper Plan B.

She will immediately think I mean Divorce and just plan on it. There won't be any discussion, she'll just go for that.
This is exactly why you explain it, very clearly in a Plan B letter. You state you do not want a divorce and that you want to stay married. She won’t “think” you mean divorce because you state exactly the opposite.
What she chooses to do is another matter that you cannot stop but she KNOWS exactly where you stand.

2. Make a determination as to whether I am willing to waste more time and effort (I've wasted a year already) to save this train wreck at all or if I should total it.
I hope you haven’t wasted time. You should have been looking at yourself, your actions and how you relate to others in a relationship. Plan A/B are not failures, simply because a divorce happens.

3. What's the best way to confront My W. with everything that I have learned.
Just tell her what you know. Don’t tell her how/where you got the information. This will simply allow her to hide it better.

4. How to deal with the W if she goes crazy,[
Plan B. You don NOT deal with her at all.

change health insurance to single instead of spouse coverage
Be very, very careful about this. Iwould get legal advice BEFORE you do this.
If she gets sick or in an accident and you have dropped her coverage, as her husband, you WILL be responsible for any bills she gets.

E. Decide on what to tell my parrents... With the counselor.
Just the facts, sir, just the facts.

I've gotten books, for us to read together
Don’t try to educate her. The best way for you to let her know anything is by your actions. Demonstrate things you have learned.

So, she is very closed to trying to repair our relationship, though she has done everything to keep her affair hidden from me. She mentioned the other night that she's found it hard to make sure videos she downloads are removed from her computer permanently. She was referring to music videos and stuff and tv-series clips that she likes to download (or that's what she wanted me to believe.) but it's actually the videos that she sends to him of herself that I find hidden within temporary files that she thought she deleted, but never got rid of them permanently.

That's my rough sketch of plan B.
None of this stuff is Plan B.
Have you specifically read “Surviving An Affair” by Dr Willard Harley?

Then show her the logs and the movies and ask her if she remembers what I said about the last time she did this..
You told her you would leave/separate if she did this?
So you would go back on your word to separate if she fessed up to it.
If you would, why should she believe you wan tot save the marriage?
My point is you have to say what you mean & mean what you say.

Does the Marriage builders counseling center charge?
Yeah, but it’s a very, very, VERY good investment.

Yeah. I understand what you are saying. The problem is I don't know what I want. 90% of me says I want out, I just want it to be over.

10% of me says, I'll try to save if, if she says she wants to save it. Thing is I'd feel like i'm just doing it for her, and not at all for myself.

Does that make sense? and yes you are right the past year was not wated... I spent it emphasizing being there for her, doing as much as I could for her, trying to improve our relationship. buying her flowers, cooking her meals, constantly cleaning the house. I did everything I could as much as I could. I left some responsability to her, but I was there for her, emotionally, physically, spiritually, and in reality.

SHe's told me she doesn't like sex, and she gets nothing out of it. So, she did it for me twice a year for a few years. So, then she turns to this. A part of me wonders if maybe there is something wrong physically, maybe I can't please her and she needs electronic mediums to get anything out of it.

When she was growing up she told me her parents had hundreds of dollars in phone bills because she constantly called 900 numbers... Maybe it's some weird psychological issue, that has nothing to do with me.

I don't really know.. All I know is I can't stand to look at her anymore. and there has to be consequences for her actions. If I screw up at work, I'm probably fired, if I kills someone I"m put in jail. There has to be a consequence to her actions. I did not tell her there would be a separation. I simply told her there would be severe consequences if this happened again. She was not remorseful, and she saw nothing wrong with what she did.

Personally, I just want her to leave and not come back so I can sleep again. Problem is I don't know how I will feel after she leaves.

Whitewolf, Here at MB Plan A and Plan B mean something very specific. If you meant simply your back up plan, we probably misunderstood you.

Plan B is when you send a letter to your spouse saying that until the affair ends you will have no contact at all with him/her. No contact means no emails, no phone calls, nothing.

Most states won't allow you to change your health policy until legally separated or divorced. You probably also couldn't change your life insurance. However, she's not allow to just default on her loans either.

Also, keep in mind that she's using this as a way to manipulate you. It's worked in the past, and you backed off and she got to continue her affair. Isn't that lovely????

An important part of Plan B is exposure. Have you exposed her behavior to your parents, her parents, the pastor/rabbi, etc? If not, you need to do that. I'd do it before plan B so that if she tries to go to her parents, they might send her back home to you.

Thanks Chris for the clarification on plan A B I saw information on them, but the information on this site is so overwhelming and there's so much that I haven't had a chance to get through it all..

Well, My W has given up the affair after the confrontation today. She took her webcam and threw it in the garbage, uninstalled all of her messenger programs. Showed me the private email addresses she had setup to send her personal porn videos to the OM, and she deleted those accounts and uninstalled everything she used for webcam viewing, etc.

SHe has sworn to me on her life that she wants to do everything and anything to save this marriage.

I feel like she is just telling me what I want to hear, her actions are a first step, and I am very happy to say that I didn't say anything about her disposing of the webcam or anything. She did that by herself... !! She also said that she would possibly propose that she only be on the internet when I'm in the room.

I can't be home all the time at the same time as her. .. so that may be an impossibility to trust. But, she made a good first step to recovery.

I proposed we be separated.. She came up with the idea of separating in our own house for financial reasons. I'm not sure I agree with this, b/c this still gives her somewhat of a support mechanism. We agreed we would treat each other as if we were same-sex room mates. Each do their own laundry, dishes, etc. NO hugging, Kissing, holding hands, physical or emotional affection for the time being. AT most once a week, we will have scheduled dates. Where we allow each other to show emotional and physical attention, (mild physical attention, holding hands, hugging, dating type of attention.)

She has agreed to go to counseling with me as long as it takes, to see medical doctors if neccessary as her sex drive is that of a dead ant.... at least... for me. something about the webcam was an addiction for her, she admits now that it may have been an addiction of some type.. But she doesn't know, what or why... The why really bothers her, b/c if she doesn't know the why, she's afraid it could creap up again. But, she told the OM about what happened and his only response was "oh Sorry".. Which made her feel even more special... (she thought somehow she was special to him... NOT.. he was just leach that took whatever live porn he could get..) after telling him that she severed all contacts with him. completely, including the online game that we use to play together and she'd chat with him while we played (side by side in the same room non-the-less... )

So... I guess..... (I say this hesitantly..) I will be willing to rebuild our marriage from scratch.. I say that because our original foundation has been flimsy, SN were neglected... specifically mine.. twice a year is way less than any man should have to deal with, and the best was maybe 4 times a year our first year of marriage... So, we never had anything really great or exceptional, which she has agreed to do everything in her power to change. But, this is most important and above everything else... She must learn to forgive herself... I must learn to forgive her, I must heal, and I must learn to trust her and have good reason to trust her.

She is to write up her own punishment so she knows she has consequences and accountability for her actions. Plus I've asked her to write up a timeline of our new relationship.. When she thinks we should progress to different stages in the relationship... So, she has a future to look forward to and a realistic outlook to refer back to. This weekend she is going to her parents for 3 or 4 days, and I told her I think it's best if we limit contact to each other in emergencies, as part of our "separation" deal.

So, for the time being, I am accepting the same house separation deal.. She has agreed to maintain her professional responsabilities during this time. So, please pass any criticism or judgement on me.

Am I being too nice for what she's done to me? Am I being too Mean? Can healing begin if we live in the same house like this within myself? What else can I do to insure that she's trustworthy? What if this is cyclical addiction of some type, (so far the cheating occurred almost the same dates, of the same month both years...) What if I don't catch it if it happens again? How long is long enough for me to be able to forgive her and heal the deep wounds she's caused?

I will be asking if she would consider reading Surviving an Affair. I will read it too..

So, in short, I think she's avoiding actual separation through relocation because that means it would be easier to achieve a divorce if it became neccessary. This way I'm forced into finding a way to reconcile or finding a way for her to leave me...

Anyways.. I'm open to suggestions or criticisms... Or even, applause and "hey you're doing the right thing" comments.

I feel like she is just telling me what I want to hear, her actions are a first step, and I am very happy to say that I didn't say anything about her disposing of the webcam or anything.
Say, “Thanks Honey! I’m really glad that you re taking an intereset in making our marriage better!”

I proposed we be separated.
Not a good thing at all, especially since she (at least says) she has ended the affair.

She came up with the idea of separating in our own house for financial reasons. I'm not sure I agree with this, b/c this still gives her somewhat of a support mechanism.
Since she agreed to end the affair and even took baby steps in that direction, you NEED to be her BIGGEST support mechanism.

We agreed we would treat each other as if we were same-sex room mates. Each do their own laundry, dishes, etc. NO hugging,
Why? Aren’t you married? Don’t married couples do things for each other?
Yes, it’s probably good to hold off on the intimacy for a while but you should still act married.

AT most once a week, we will have scheduled dates.
I would suggest at LEAST once a week (not at most), do this. And make sure it is clear that there is no expectation of sex (and don’t let it go there, at least for the immediate future). If she is expecting you to want it, it could bring the date really down..

including the online game that we use to play together and she'd chat with him while we played (side by side in the same room non-the-less... )
That was probably part of the “attraction”. “It’s so “dangerous” doing this with my husband a few feet away.” Like a roller coaster is scary, people go on them for that exact reason.

I must learn to trust her and have good reason to trust her.
You don’t “learn” to trust her. She has to show you that she can be trusted.

She is to write up her own punishment
???

This weekend she is going to her parents for 3 or 4 days, and I told her I think it's best if we limit contact to each other in emergencies, as part of our "separation" deal.
Why?
If she’s out for a few days, I would fully expect her to contact om during this time, especially if you are going to limit contact with her to emergencies only.

Am I being too nice for what she's done to me?
Not at all.

[/b]Am I being too Mean?[/b]
Not at all.

I do think you should NOT “separate” and I do think you should NOT limit contact in any way.
Get back to relationship basics. Be around each other. Do fun things together. Do the laundry together (don’t do it for each other).

What if I don't catch it if it happens again?
You’ll know when/if it happens again, just as you knew in the past, although you probably couldn’t/didn’t want to believe it.

I will be asking if she would consider reading Surviving an Affair. I will read it too.
You read it & ask questions here. Also, another good read is “His Needs, Her Needs”.
Do not ask her to read it. Don’t try to educate her. Read the books yourself and apply what you have learned. Demonstrate to her by your actions.
Don’t hide the books from her but don’t put them in her face. If she asks about them, mention what they are but keep it brief. No discussion unless she brings it up.

It’s easy to get into this stuff but wayward spouses tend to look at it as you are only doing it to win them back and it’s not gonna last. This relationship stuff is something you need to learn & apply for life. They need to become habits and you need to apply, regardless of how your wife acts/reacts.

Read the links in my signature for a good place to start.

I haven't followed this thread closely enough and my advice may come too late, though I certainly hope your MT said what I would say. You don't pop the "I want a seperation" discussion on your wife outside of therapy. Period. This has to be handled very delicately, with a well thought out plan that the MT presents and with clearly defined goals, rules and expectations. Any other approach almost invariably leads to divorce.

Wow. interesting. My christian counselor, and she was a good lady, said that I need to confront my W ASAP, and that separation would be the best and maybe only option. but that part's over. My W refused the idea of the separation as I mentioned earlier. Problem is, I feel good now, I feel better than I"ve felt for a very long time. I feel like I should be sad, or emotionally distraught, but I feel great. I feel free from her.

What if this feeling persists? Is it a sign that I wasn't happy with her? Is it just a feeling of relief over the confrontation? What if I come to the realization that "my love" for her isn't real or isn't returned to her. I'm not making any excuses, I know I need to support her, but I don't want to touch her, I don't feel safe emotionally to be near her. I feel good alone.. One of my friends that was in a very emotionally abusive marriage and divorce, said that if one feels better outside of the marriage than they do in, then go with it. I'm not to that point yet, I need to give it some time to realize my true feelings. But what if my feelings aren't for her anymore? What if I feel happier alone than with her.. These feelings scare me, but they are there and I can't ignore them.

You need to tell your wife your feelings. You also need to recognize that feelings are just responses to stimuli. Naturally, you don't feel good around your wife. She's hurt you badly.

However, if she changes her behavior, your feelings for her will change.

It's important you are completely clear with your wife about your feelings and what she can do to help you regain your love for her. If she repeatedly refuses to change, then I'd start thinking about getting out.

However, your wife is demonstrating change. So, I would not recommend making any decisions right now.

BTW, I agree with all Chris's posts.

Thank you for being direct and non-critical. And BTW or FYI I haven't told my parrents. I don't know if I can tell them anything. They didn't want me to marry her (and they were probably right) and for the first 3 years of our marraige they pretty much rejected her. It's only been the last few years they have truely acccepted her as a daughter-in-law. If I told them this, what has built up would just crumble. It's real messy all around.

But I agree, with that if she shows signs of changing that maybe it's for the best to try to work things out. And you are right she is changing. But, the motivation is because she's afraid of losing me. That obviously wasn't strong enough to stop her from doing what she did in the past. Yes, she's stopped now and changed, but for how long?

I've made it very clear that the way to get me to trust her again and regain me is first and foremost to start respecting herself, physically, emotionally and responsibly. If she quits her job and gives up on life, I don't view that as a positive change, that's her giving up on everything. I've explained that to her as best as I can. I expect her to maintain her life and herself, and just take each day one at a time. And we have to see how it goes from there.

Thanks for the advice. I don't agree with all of it, but I'll continue my search for answers..

I don't agree with all of it,
Such as?

Why don't you agree with it?

Actually, Fear is one of the strongest motivators there is. It's the reason people stop all kids of behaviors like smoking or shooting up. Guilt on the other hand is usually less strong.

However, Whitewolf, your wife won't be motivated be fear alone. She'll be motivated by the positive reinforcement you give her.

How did you word the "regain my trust" items? As you did here? That's sounds rather disrespectful. Does she have a history of slumps that make you concerned?

Try to remember that you two are now on the same team.