I'm becoming very woried about you.
Why are you still so angery and bitter?
Maybe be you don't relize it but you are,and that worries and concerns me.
You've been on here since before I was.
I used to be that way and found out it was bad for me,my health, my marraige, and so much more.
Are you still in IC, or marriage C?
I'm truly concerned!

I am not angry. Actully I get quite a kick out of reading the self important views of some ow on here. I do however find it appalling that an ow type is on here with passive aggressive swipes at hurting bw. I feel for the newbies in this situation and have always defended them and their rights to their feelings without being made to feel guilty. I believe that is an injustice that any bw, new to the pain of all of this, or simply struggling can't come here and try to vent without being told that she is at fault, or being insensitive, or that she has to think of the child, etc.

I worry about many bw on here who are told to hide their wants and feelings, and to just accept whatever it is other people want. I worry about the wives who sit back and do nothing, ending up hurt even more. I worry about some young woman, afraid to stand up and say "no". That is where my anger comes.

I find it amusing that you worry about me, appreciate the concern, but really, save it for people who are hurting and in need of it. Having a vent with an OW on some board does not hurt my feelings

The worst thing any wife can do, who finds herself in a situation with a husband trying to reconcile and work out an affair, and having a pregnant ow, is to sit idly back and let the tail wag the dog. I know from experience that this will create a huge mess later. I also know that a wife can't force a husband to do things her way, and neither can a husband force a wife to do things his way. It has to be talked to death and a solid POJA is the only way through this mine field.

I know that by sitting back and allowing some ow to call an BW selfish for not "being adult enough" if she puts her own children before the oc is hurting that BW. Somebody has to point out to these women that they matter. They count. That what they want, need, feel is important and that they need to stand up and voice it. That by allowing people to try and guilt you into living in a way that suits them, could make you even more depressed. DO NOT DO IT. Stand up, stand tall and say NO.

I have always supported any/all BW here no matter what they chose to do....AS LONG AS IT WAS THEIR CHOICE to do so. I have also been steadfast in the need to have open dialog in the marriage, or what is the point?

I have also always been hard on ow who come here and vent about how cruel it is to oc, or whatever their latest whine is. What the marriage does or not is of no concern to the OW. It is vital that the newbies and those struggling always understand that. The ow is not part of the family, and should never be considered.

I have always and will always be totally and 100% supportive of any wife who works through this and makes a decision based on what is best for her, her family and her marriage. That if she finds the thought of contact with the oc to much to bear, that is ok. That her feelings matter and count. I see no more harm in people encouraging women to hide their feelings, and bury their needs. Heck no. That is wrong.

Some marriages survive affairs, some don't. Some survive oc birth, some don't. But the only way any of these marriages survive and thrive is if the couple gets honest, truly and deeply honest with everything. Why pussyfoot around at this point?

Not only that, but the time a wife spends licking her wounds can set her up for yet another sucker punch. I would rather encoruage a BW to stand tall, get moving, see attorneys, protect family assets, etc. then to sit back and watch her crash and burn. So if I come across harsh so be it. There really isn't a nice way to word certain things.
If the ow is acting like a greedy, manipulative shrew, what are the nice way to word that????? Financially Challenged? Why mince words.

As for me and NTMO? Well she and I have argued for years. That is just a norm. I'm sure she loses no sleep over my posts just as I laugh at hers.

The only difference between you and I lynn, is I do support others on this board in a positive manner or I would not be here. As well your right I don't loose sleep over my fights and debates w/you. But I do find it sad that you can turn an opinion into a war of sorts and get the bw your trying to support all riled up. Again, you need to read, read again, then for a 3rd time read and maybe you'll see what is written instead of what you think or are wanting to hear from anyone who does not agree with you. That would be really great and constructive to this board if you could do that.

It might also be a help to BW's if you stopped calling them selfish for having feelings and thoughts that do not put the needs of ow/oc first. That is my biggest problem with you. This board is specifically for Marriage Building. I really don't see where the wants/needs of the ow/oc remotely pertain to that.

Lynn LET IT GO! I think WE ALL hear you. It's my opinion. DROP IT! Why don't you bug on some others that agreed with me? Come on Lynn....leave it alone at least with me. As far as the wants/needs of the ow/oc remotely pertain to that? If I am wrong anyone please correct me, but it is also for anyone who is for the marriage's to heal and has an oc. Get off this Lynn. You do this evertime. You don't know when to stop. And why is it that someone always contacts you. Let this person speak for themself. No one should be afraid to post. NO ONE!

Sunny said almost word for word what I had said in an eariler post. Why were you so nice to her about it and so rude to me about it? I know why.......because I'm a FOW and she is not.

A question was asked Lynn I answered it. I answered it how I felt. I answered it not being anyone but a woman with children and thinking about her situation and everything I've seen the last month with this. I too have a right to my opinion. But I don't think you have to drill in the ground. She stood up for herself with me....She did quite well at telling me her feelings. No one asked (unless trying did) to come and rescue her as she did a fine job of saying her own feelings. I don't fault her for that or her feelings. But you never saw I felt that way either now did you? You overlooked every sentece I wrote except the one that I said she was being selfish. That is all you saw. So that is why I have said to you now all day before you respond to my post read it once, twice, and then a 3rd time before you respond. And if your going to put me down for what I say I hope you start including any other's regardless of the titles in your post and stop calling me out. It is NOT constructive and your only purpose is to let go of your own steam. That is what I see as you NEVER let it go!

Personally, I see no reason for any OP to be here to offer BS their perspective or opinion.

This is a Marriage Builder's site for those BS and their WS who have children resulting of an infidelity. This not a forum for OP to come to give their opinions and perspectives on how the WC's can repair their marriage or perspectives on how the BS's should feel.

I know I don't give a damned what any of the OP have to say on here. I don't care if they say they're sorry for what they've done or not. They still have a "jaded" perspective. It's human nature to see things differently if you're on opposite ends of the spectrum.

IMHO - There are very, very few OP that actually feel true remorse. It takes years and years to gain true perspective on what havoc, hurt etc. you created with your self-centered, lack of self-respect induced behavior.

I think Lynn is right on. She doesn't beat around the brush and calls it like it is. People in general, just can't handle that sort of thing. They like the touchy, feely, beat around the bush way of dealing.

Actually a lot of ow are not jaded, and if people would look at all sides they could see it.
Jaded IMHO is not looking at it from all sides, not fully admitting our former WS part in this, and if we don't correct the mistake's we made before,during and to some degree after the A's we will continue the cycle(s).
WE all as Women need to relise how much blame the men in our lives are/were at fault.
Looking at half the situation IMHO is not fully looking at a situation.
Some of the things these MM have said and done to the OW are the very same things they have said/done to us as thier wives and we also bought it hook ,line, and sinker,if we are completely honest w/ourselves.
It all comes down to we have ALL been Hurt, and it will take us differnt amounts of time to heal.

Key phrase here "Some of the things these MM have said and done to the OW are the very same things they have said/done to use as their wives and we also bought it hook, line and sinker, if we are compltely honest w/ourselves."

The point is the OW shouldn't have been invovled in the first place and what you say above wouldn't have happened to them. So, they reap what they sow.

Then if we reap what we sow can we say that about the mm too?

Niether should our husbands been. And when I was new and someone said what I just said to me ya it hurt, but that's because it hit home and made scence.

And therein lies the crux of the matter for some people around here. You're not alone nut, there are others who see things the same way you do. An OP or WS could change their ways completely, be truly remorseful, and you're not buying it. Thus anything they have to say is moot and worthless, because you can't see past the label no matter how much that person has turned their life around.

This same mindset seems to also say if you're a BS, you can do no wrong. If you're a FOP/FWS, you ONLY do wrong. If you're a BS your opinion is right and you have a right to have it. If you're a FOP/FWS your opinion is wrong and you have no right to have it, and on and on and on.

I've seen this mentality around here for a very long time. I READ A LOT, and it's not difficult to pick up.

The thing is, the sections of MB that get MUCH more traffic than P/C, such as GQ don't reak of this discrimination. They're far more tolerant of all povs, including those of FOPs and FWS's. Some BS actually seek out the opinion of a FWS, because they value that INDIVIDUAL'S opinion. Some BS and WS have EVEN become close friends...imagine that one nut! Oh no! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

Witout getting into details - - You're absolutely wrong about me. I've experienced life from nearly every spectrum and I stand by what I say. It takes years and years to truly feel remorse and understand the damage, havoc created when you acted with no respect for yourself, others or self-control. Most of the FOW here and in other forums I have read, have been (for lack of a better term) at this for a very short time when you look at the big picture.

That may be true for some, possibly even most op/ws, but it is not true across the board. It's not fair to assume, based on your own personal experiences or even some you've observed in life that it is ALWAYS true.

This horse is SO dead that the bones are dust! I have to agree with Autumn in that it doesn't ALWAYS take YEARS for an OP or WS to learn from their mistakes and change the direction of their lives! Heck, it only took one afternoon for me, and I was actually BOTH at that time! I'm not going to suggest that we "all just get along", because that would be impossible. What I will suggest is that EVERYONE read with an open mind, and if something written bothers you, well, if it was directed at you, and you feel you can deal with the way the "hurricane thread" has gone on and on about the same dead horse, then reply. If it is something that was hurtful in a way that broke the rules of the forum, report it. If it wasn't said to you, and doesn't break the rules, why continue to try to change the way someone is or sees things when you already know it's a lost cause.

I am not taking sides here, just from being around the block for a few years see that this and a couple other threads are going no where fast.

Have a wonderful evening, night, morning, where ever you are in the world. I know I will.

It makes no difference to the marriage whatsoever if the ow is a nutcase, or a saint. Who/what she is, or how she feels, thinks or wants means absolutely nothing within the marraige.

This is a Marriage Building site, not a site for ow/oc and their supporters to chastise any BW for whatever reason, unless said ow is a married woman trying to save her marriage, her views and thoughts are pointless and useless. Just as useless as if I were to go to their site and point out the fact that they are horrible mothers and then list my reasons why.

Also, I know of NOT ONE BW who is not aware of her Husbands betrayal here. Everytime any ow or her supporters feel backed into a corner, that is their mantra....How BW are not blaming the H. Get Real. Of course they are. However, that man has a history with his wife, they have lived a life and shared good times and bad. Only THEY have an understanding of what their life is and will be. If he gets forgiveness, it is based on history and actions. The ow does NOT have a history within the marriage, except for that of ow. She is seen in a less then favorable light within the family. If she grows, feels bad, moves on, well it is up to her own family and friends to honor and respect that. When the married couple calls her a mistake, and such, so be it. That is what she is seen as. But, when a BW lashes out at an OW, it does NOT mean she is not blaming the husband too.

As for the hurt or pain suffered by ow? So what? She knew going in that someone was getting hurt, and she had no problem with her participation in doing so. Her hurt and pain, is self inflicted, and hardly a care of the BW. And to answer the question about the MM too. Yes, whatever hurt he feels is of his own doing. So if an ow and MM get hurt, well, they reap what they sow. So, just as ow have many names and hatred for the MM they feel "wronged" them, remember that same MM along with his family and friends, have the same disdain and disgust for her.

And I think that when OP come on here and start berating or nagging at a wife, they are completely out of line.

Just to add my two cents...

Each of our experiences are similar and different. Each of our perspectives about those experiences are based upon our upbringing, our spirit, and all the other things we have gone through.

We will not always agree on everything...no doubt. What we can do is exactly what was suggested earlier. If a post or comment is directed at you and only you...then respond if you wish. If it is not directed at you and you disagree, then respond by continuing to support the one that needs it.

I'm amazed what a hurricane my original post has created all on its own. I guess it just goes to show you that no matter how the decisions were made, the pieces came together, or the parties feel, in the end, it is my life and my decision. I certainly realize now that I am justified in being confused, hurt, humiliated, understanding, empathetic, and angry all at the same time.

All I can say to ow, exow, op, fow, what ever label you wish to use, is realize that most of us bs have the devil on one shoulder and an angel on the other in the heat of the moment. We are obviously here to work on improving our marriages without the ow involved.

Since this is the pregnancy/child out of infidelity section, you just MIGHT have some very angry, upset, devastated bs on here who are not even remotely able to handle someone telling them they are not handling things right at a given moment.

Let's try to remember that this particular infidelity leads to at least 18 years of reminders. It is hard to move on. But I am still tryin. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

AMEN Lynn

My husband and I plan on NC. I would truly appreciate your suggestions.