Gotcha. I would start with the owner and then put in a call to the superviser. Put the onus on them and ask them what they plan on doing about it. Make sure they understand that this affair is fairly long term and that is why your H recommended her. Tell them you are trying to save your marriage and then ask them: "what do you plan on doing about it?"

I would also call the OW's mother just after you do this and telling her that her daughter is having an affair with a married man. Tell her about your newborn baby.

Yes, what Mel said.

And even if the boss is thoroughly confused about what to do, or says "personal is personal, business is business" or some such nonsense, just calmly keep the pressure on. If the boss/owner knows what this is doing to you, the bunk your WH is trying to sell everyone, and what a fool he's being (your WH), it will help them with their disapproving and hopefully definitive actions.

It's just too easy when the boss only sees the employee's side of things for them to "not want to rock the boat" and to believe your WH that "his M was dead anyway..."

People who haven't learned by experience all about how A's work, their textbook fogs, and the load of baloney that they WS tells themself and everyone around them - those people are subject to believing the load of horse-pucky that gets told to them! I've seen bosses and co-workers go into MAJOR denial and minimize the depth of an affair, just so their consciences didn't have to get involved.

I wish wish wish I had told my H's boss & even some co-workers at the time. This is NOT to say that I don't whole-heartedly agree with believer and MelodyLane about office gossip, and restricting it to the boss & HR.

However, we were already major office gossip in a small office, only my side never got told. I would go back and change that if I could. Every situation is different. OW worked with H and was confiding in the receptionist the details of her woe with the R w/ H all the time - I wish I'd have called her (the involved receptionist) up & told her "This isn't some soap opera for office entertainment. I've got two little girls here whose hearts are absolutely broken. What OW does and what WH does, and what I say, and what she says about it, and blah blah blah isn't some drama that you can just be an innocent bystander at. By supporting OW, you are supporting the break-up of two families with little children. (OW was M too)"

I let everyone off the hook, and enabled OW to tell half-truths to her boss, co-workers and her own H by not calling them all up and telling them what I was hearing. She would have pulled a lot less crap if she knew my H wasn't going to be the only one hearing it.

One observation, and perhaps Mel and others can comment, is your demeanor as you make these revelations to people. I think stay calm, collected, professional, matter-of-fact, definitive, with an edge of "I won't take no for an answer." And as far as the gossip-detail, they only need to know as much information as is required for them to believe you that it really is a full-blown A. Correct, Mel?

Go, SadMommy, go!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

NTL

Well, I just did it, and I feel awful.

H said earlier this week that everyone at the office knows and is supportive of him. When I called to leave him a message about DD, the supervisor's wife answered and asked how DD and I were doing. I told her that he admitted to EA. She said he hadn't said anything about that, and I said I'm not surprised. She then said, well, I guess people only tell you what they want to tell you.

I know you experts have said I should go straight to the boss, but I was too scared to do it and I know it needed to be done sooner rather than later. It took all the nerve I could muster to make the phone call period, b/c I'm not this kind of person. This seemed like the next best thing, b/c she knows me and our family and genuinely likes us. Also, they are fresh from getting married themselves. She will tell H's supervisor, probably before lunchtime. I still feel like my stomach is in my throat.

From what H has said, there's no way we're getting back together anyway. He has seemed different and more sure of himself whenever he talks about it with me than at other times when we have had discussions in our marriage. He's for real, and I don't think there's anything I can do to bring him back. As I've said before, I don't have a lot of opportunities to try to meet his ENs. I'm going to keep trying the Plan A approach of trying to draw him back, of course, but right now, I need to focus on me and DD. If he wakes up, great, but I'm not counting on it. I've got to get on with my life.

We'll just have to see what happens now. I'm scared and nervous about what he'll say tonight. The s*** will probably hit the fan!

SM, telling the secretary is nice but does not acheive the point of exposure. Don't bring a pea shooter to a gun fight, lest you waste everybody's time and just annoy your H.

It is important that folks who are in a position of authority over the WS and the OP are told so they can make a decision about how to handle the problem. They need to hear the story FROM YOU in a FORMAL, PROFESSIONAL MANNER, not as second hand gossip frm the secretary.

And yes, workplace fraternization is a huge problem. And perhaps he won't do anything about it, but just the impact of a person in authority knowing causes huge problems in the affair. The boss will probably sit them down and have a chat.

I would suggest calling the owner and then the boss yourself, and making sure they get the CORRECT story, that your H is having an affair with OW and they are shacking up. Ask them what they intend on doing about this workplace affair.

Don't just stop now, do it completely so it will have the maximum effect. He is going to be mad anyway, may as well get your money's worth and get it all out of the way at once. Finish your exposure at work, then call up any other family members or close friends that are exposure targets. And tell them the truth, not just what your H has "admitted to." Your H is having an affair and is living with the OW, of course they are sleeping together.

And not sure why you told her it was an "emotional affair," I know you know better. They are shacking up, for God's sake. Please tell it how it is.

You will be just fine. He will be furious, but don't let him bait you into a fight. Just respond that you felt his boss needed to know this and can't imagine why he would object. Tell him you love him and will do what it takes to save your marriage. Smile sweetly and tell him you are sorry he is upset.

Thank you for the support. I'll let you all know what happens...

Hey, ML... which one is your thread? I'd like to know a little about your story, since you're being such a big help and supporter of mine.

Thanks!

SM, it has been so long since I had a thread that I wouldn't know where to find it [them]. Briefly, I am the BS. Just after I remarried in 2000 I discovered that my H was carrying on a long distance affair with a former GF.

I kicked him out that day and confronted the GF. She dumped him that day because he had lied to her and said we were "seperated." Anyway, after I kicked his sorry [censored] out, he asked me to give him another chance. He wanted to go to "counseling" with me. I decided it would look better when I dumped him if I went to counseling with him a couple of times so I could say "I tried." The counselor we went to was a big Marriage Builders advocate.

Anyway, that was 5 years ago, and using the MB principles, we have a wonderful marriage and there hasn't been a repeat of his sleazy behavior.

Of course they are, they all think his M was dead anyway, according to him!!! Only someone who's been on the receiving end of an A would recognize his story for what it really is - fog-speak.

I wish I had done it, it's not too late for you. I wish I had done it, it's not too late for you. I wish I had done it, it's not too late for you. Do you see a theme?


Ergo, is she too young to understand affairs? If the person you told doesn't understand what needs to happen next, it isn't very helpful.

You are not absorbing when we tell you that ALL WS's sound like this! My WH would have gotten a 5 minute divorce if the state allowed it! The situation is NOT hopeless. He can go from sure & angry, to confused and unsure in a heartbeat.

Call his boss. He's mad anyway. Unless there is a chance he could become VIOLENT, then you need to take the obvious precautions, but if that's not his M.O., continue on!

NTL

Thanks, NTL. The person I talked to is old enough to know. It's her second marriage.

Be proud of me... I didn't LB tonight when I came home from dance class. After class, I went to a coffee shop to journal and clear my head so I could get out all the bad stuff before I came home. We didn't talk much, just a little small talk, but it was more pleasant than the other night. There was an ease to the conversation that felt more normal, like it's supposed to be. Maybe I'm reading too much into it...

Good job. It gets easier and easier if you just pretend that they are temporarily insane. Don't take anything he says personally.

SM, I AM proud of you! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

NTL

James 1:19-20
My dear brothers and sisters, be quick to listen, slow to speak, and slow to get angry. Your anger can never make things right in God's sight.

Ugh, it's been a rough day. Rainy as all get out and dreary as can be. DD and I get home, and she starts screaming. Must be teething, because it was like that all evening. I'm keeping my fingers crossed about tonight!

I baked a yummy lasagna for dinner, full of spinach and tofu, but it just made me feel even lonelier b/c H isn't here to share it with me. Who knows what he's doing tonight... I really had to stop myself from calling him to talk. OMG, I miss him so much! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

OK... for the sake of my sanity I have to be working under the assumption that H isn't coming back. There's nothing I can say to change his mind, it's got to be his decision. I will do my best to work my plan A stuff, and if he chooses to come back to his family, wonderful. If not, I know DD and I will manage. What is it they say, hope for the best but prepare for the worst?

I feel like we had our first custody battle tonight. He called me this morning and left a message on my cell phone saying he wanted to take DD to visit his parents an hour away. I have told him before that I'm not comfortable with the idea of him taking her out of the house for several hours at a time, since we're still nursing and she doesn't take a bottle well from him, which frustrates/embarasses him.

I had a busy day and didn't check my phone until after work. I called him back and said we were already planning to visit with a friend and her baby Sunday, so he couldn't take her out of town. He asked when I made the plans, and I told him when (1/2 an hour after he called me apparently). He said that he made his plans first. He also said he didn't believe that I didn't check my phone until after work. I told him that the best way to reach me during the work day is at my office number.

So far, all the time he's had with her has been at our house. For the past couple weeks or so, I've had plans to be out of the house for two reasons... 1. to get a break myself, and 2. to avoid sitting here moping around watching them play, wishing for something that isn't there right now.

When he came over tonight, I asked him if he would like to come visit DD tomorrow afternoon. He said no b/c he's got to watch the football game (on TV, I might add) and that he will be taking her Sunday afternoon, and I replied, No, you won't. I told you already that I'm not comfortable with you taking her out of town because of the bottle issue, and we are not going to cancel our plans. (Friend and I have been talking about having a baby play date for a week now, and it only got changed to Sunday this morning.)

He said I'm trying to use DD as a bargaining chip, that I'm playing "catty, manipulative games." Whether or not that's my intent, he said, surely I can understand how my actions could be interpreted.

I replied, well, surely you can see how your actions could be interpreted.

He said he WILL see his daughter, that it WON"T always be on my terms, that there are things he will NOT tolerate from me. I said, "well, she's living with me, and I only want what's best for her."

He then said something that really scared me... "I won't try to take DD away from you now b/c you're nursing, but I would be just as happy taking care of her as you are. I don't want to take her away from you, but by gummies, she's my child, too." He did say he will "relent" about Sunday but he WILL be taking her Friday to a family get-together in that town.

What the heck should I do now? I don't want to cause any trouble, and I don't want to give him anything he can use against me if it does come down to the big D. I don't want him to feel like I'm depriving him of time with DD, but I also don't want him taking her all over the place without her mommy (who she legitimately needs as a source of nourishment). He is kind of short on patience anyway, and he gets really frustrated with her when she won't take a bottle from him. He used to say that I undermine his efforts to feed her b/c I nurse her whenever I'm home, and that I should "let" him give her a bottle even when I'm at home, which we tried to do a few times. I would sit here in another room, crying b/c I could hear her screaming for me for 30 minutes while he tried to feed her.

My mom said I should stay at the house when he's here in another room in case she needs me. I think part of the problem is that b/c I've been making plans to not be here when he's here, that he might feel like just a babysitter and is getting resentful?

She also suggested that if he wants to take DD to visit his folks, I could drive to the town (I have brothers in the same town) and say he can pick her up/drop her off at their place. That way, it'd only be two hours instead of four that she's away from her mommy (cutting out the travel time).

Any other suggestions? How on earth do you put aside your differences for the sake of your children when you want to hurt your WS who has hurt you so deeply? I feel worse for what this is doing to DD than for what it's doing to me. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

In other news, he found an apartment, and it should be ready for him to move into Friday.

Ooh, that's a tough one with DD being so young. My experience was that if WH thought I was withholding time with the kids from him, he wanted to fight about it. If I allowed him unlimited time, he only saw them for a couple of hours at a time, rarely took them anywhere, and only called maybe every 2-3 days. If your WH did take DD somewhere, he would probably decide after one afternoon of that, that mostly it's WORK! Babywork and affairs don't mesh that well together.

But I can understand the safety issue you talk about, even DD's emotional safety. My H was short on patience with the kids too, and I never felt that comfortable leaving them with him when they were very young because he would become overwhelmed if they cried, etc...

Being as understanding and accommodating as possible about his time w/ DD is your best Plan A though. Nothing made my WH more mad at me then when he felt I was trying to limit his access to his children.

SM05, NotTooLost said...



I concur. He'll find out it's OVERWHELMING!!!!.

Your baby will be fine. She can miss a feeding. She can cry for awhile, but ultimately, she'll just eat more when she gets home. Don't go to the same town, that just is too humiliating for you.

Let him experience being a single dad. The frustration of not being able to get a baby to settle in front of family is a HUMILIATING and HUMBLING experience. Then, in the car ride, the baby crying could really get to him.

After being separated I took kids for a trip to the zoo and we were lost and trying to find the place and both kids were crying and screaming, then I started crying (instead of screaming) and it was a real mess. I couldn't have been more happy to get home and drop them off.

It will be good for him.

The more you resist the more he is going to push, and you just can't win.

I would guess after just one miserable day, he'll stop talking about wanting custody. That's when the nasty person in me would come out and pretend I'd be interested in shared custody where he can have parenting responsibilities a major percentage of the time.

You both have an interesting perspective. You know, he acts like he's super dad when he's here with her now. Funny, he never really acted like that when he lived here with us. Even the first few days when we were home from the hospital, when I was sleeping recovering from my c-section, my mom said he was impatient with DD. She would be crying and he would be like, "what's wrong with you!? why won't you go to sleep!"

I don't think it would overwhelm him having her by himself, though, b/c DD is a very good natured baby.

Okay, now is your WH fine with the baby or not? First you said it worries you and he's impatient, and can't handle her. Then you say that it won't overwhelm him... I guess it's safe to say we don't know exactly HOW it will go...

You might be surprised, though. I had good-natured babies too, but that signals in part your good parenting. A calm, loving demeanor with a baby tends to help them be calm. I noticed that my baby's crankiest fussiest days... were actually MY crankiest fussiest days. The chicken and the egg, who was cranky & fussy first? I think mostly me! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Babies cry. Babies need things. Babies get tired and want Mommy and need to be soothed. Your DD will want it Mommy's way. That's not to say she isn't going to have to get used to Daddy's way, but it won't be a smooth first day in my experience.

My H just said, "It might burst his little bubble if he thinks that he and OW and baby can all be a happy little family. It might make it stand out in 3-D -- these things don't go together." (The A & baby)

He's acting like super dad because he misses her, and feels guilty. My H spent more quality time taking the kids out and playing with them when we were separated. We want what we can't have, I believe is the argument that fits there...

Thanks, NTL. All I was saying is that DD isn't a crankypuss unless she's hungry or not feeling well. She never cries in the car (puts her right to sleep). I feel truly blessed to have such an even-keeled girl! He's fine with her most of the time. My mom said he's the kind of dad who wants all the glory of showing off his DD but doesn't want to do the work when things get hard and don't go his way. I can see that.

I really need to vent this morning. DD and I got up and discovered we are being invaded by ants. We keep the dogfood in the hall closet, and when I went to feed the dog, I noticed the trail. Can't find a line of them coming from a door; they must be coming from under the carpet! I vacuumed them up, but they keep coming. So I called H to ask if we have anything to kill them. He told me to use granular outdoor ant killer! Yeah, that's really safe for DD!! I asked him to come over and get rid of the ants, and he said he'll do it later.

I was SOOOOO tempted to say, "what's the matter? Are you too busy scr*wing OW to come help your family?" But I didn't. When I asked why he couldn't come take care of it now, and he said b/c he'll be coming over this evening and doesn't want to be here anyway, I just said OK. Sheesh, what a GREAT, CARING father. A-HOLE!!! I am just burning up! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

Ahh, ants. Are they the little bitty ones, or the big black Carpenter ants?

If they are the little bitty ones, I have had good luck with the standard ant traps. Just a couple have done the trick. We get them every year in the spring, put the traps out, then never see them again!

If they are the big ugly Carpenter ants (eww!) my Mom & Dad swear by Terro (Taro? Tarrow?) it is a gel or something that they eat and take back to the nest, then they crawl out into the open & die and you vacuum them up.

My advice, handle it yourself, and don't even ask him about it again. My WH claimed he would do the lawn, snowblow the driveway and help with all sorts of things (guilt!) but it never came to pass. I got SO MUCH less angry with him if I just expected NOTHING from him!

Help you can't count on is anti-help, as you can see...

You just keep working that Plan A and keep your calm. I'm confident that someday you'll have your helpful hubby back, but that isn't going to be today.


"When God places a burden upon you, He places His arms underneath you." - Streams in the Desert, Sept. 30

Hugs to you, your DD, and not to your ants!
NTL

Thanks, NTL. They're the little black ones. H did come by while DD and I were at church and took care of them. I think next time I might try the instant grits approach. I've heard they eat it then explode.

H is here downstairs with DD right now. We haven't said a whole lot to each other tonight. He did say what I was cooking smelled good. He asked me about my hair appointment yesterday and church this morning, asking where we go. I asked him what he's been up to today. "Oh, a little bit of this, a little bit of that." Helping OW unpack her junk all day. Makes perfect sense, since she has lived there for 3 months now. Hmm, he accuses ME of being materialistic (not at all), and she's the one who is a major shopaholic. Even when she didn't have a job, she was running to her XH for money and living with her XBF rent-free. Why is he being so stupid?