Hi, Fighting about this is NOT in Plan A. You will just push him away, remind him of how controlling you are, and why he doesn't want to be there.

What to do?

In your journal (you are keeping a journal I hope), record his comment about 6 hours, his commitment to giving you the extra cash, and print out the online report w/ the extra $200. Keep recording these things.

Then, complain about them here just as you did.

Try to remember that eventually you will have legal rights to half that income. He can't hide it. No reason to create bad feelings about it. It will only work against you.

And, you won't feel any real satisfaction. Try to imagine the confrontation and exactly what he would say and do? Do you imagine him giving you the money? NO. Do you imagine him apologizing? NO.

I imagine him moving his account so that you can no longer see how much he is making. That's not what you want.

Hope that helps.

Thanks again. With a name like "HardHead," you sure do give level-headed advice.

I don't have any online record of his account... just a voice recording from the automated service number. I've been keeping track, though.

He's here now with DD. She's having a really fussy evening... poor thing. I think it's teething. I had to come upstairs because she was crawling all over me and ignoring him. I didn't want him to think I was trying to rub it in.

I'm leaning toward letting him take her Friday, but I'm trying to figure out how I can be around to nurse her if I need to. I know this is probably TMI, but I've got a plugged duct right now, which really hurts. The only cure? Frequent nursing. Since my brothers live in the same town, I'm hoping I can go visit them that day. That way, H can bring DD over to nurse before he takes her to the cook-out, and maybe I can pick her up from there on the way home. That way she won't be out too far past her bedtime and he'll be able to stay later if he wants to. He'll be able to take her early from daycare like he wants, but I'll still be able to nurse her when she needs it. Does that sound like a reasonable compromise to you?

We were talking this evening about it, and I emphasized that I think it will be good for her to go but that I was a little worried about her missing the nursing and that she may be freaked out by the break in routine. He seemed to be open to working with me on it. I think seeing her crawl all over me drove the point home without me even having to say anything. They just left for a walk. I'll write back later after he leaves. I hope I can stay strong!!

I think if you guys can come up with a compromise about the outing, that is good. Just don't let it become a tug-o-war. And, again probably TMI (men skip to the next paragraph), but I've had my share of plugged ducts and frequent nursing is a good cure, but not the ONLY cure; a hot shower and trying to unplug that duct by squeezing where it is plugged/sore usually helps as much or more than nursing in my experience. Again, sorry men reading this for TMI... you were warned!

The banking, good advice, I would stealthily and accurately record the account information, but not reveal it to him. Make sure you keep these things hidden away that he doesn't see them when he's over with DD, it goes w/o saying I suppose. My attorney pointed out there can be a lot of friction during a separation if the privacy of the spouse living in the house is being violated, and him questioning things or looking thru things (call logs, emails, mail, what got purchased or changed, etc...) Even if you have nothing to hide, there's still a privacy factor that can cause tension, i.e. one day my H looked thru the call log on the phone, saw my friend's phone numbers from out of state (they both happen to be attorneys) - and was really hostile toward me "So what did your lawyer friends have to say about all this!?!" That's the type of privacy violation I mean. He was perfectly allowed to run every situation past his friend's lawyer girlfriend, and even wanted me to use her for the divorce, but got mad when I talked to my own friends (which was more personal than legal anyway as they don't even practice in our state).

Anyway, just be careful of that type of thing - you want to avoid those high-conflict situations.

How did the rest of the night go?

NTL

Thanks for the tips, NTL. This is the first nursing problem we've had in a LOOONG time. Good thing we have La Leche League tomorrow night!

About the other, H agreed to the compromise. He said he didn't want to fight over her and wasn't trying to take her away for a really long period of time. I re-emphasized that I want him to spend time with her, that I'm not trying to keep her from him, but that I'm only concerned with what's best for her.

I keep all my logs and stuff in a thick file at work. I'm glad I made copies of the financial stuff the first week b/c H has tried to clean everything out here. Can you believe he locks his truck in the driveway when he comes over now? I noticed that as I was wheeling the trash can out this evening. That's a little offensive.

The rest of the night seemed to go OK. They got back from their walk, DD and I sat down to nurse and H played with the dog and cats. DD nursed for a very, very long time, and we talked a little quietly. Talked about the apartment. How's this for being a small world... one of my dear friends recently got dumped by her BF b/c he's moving back to Europe. H is going to be taking HIS apartment! How crazy is that? The BF will leave several odds and ends there for H... pots and pans and whatnot. I told H that I had picked up some boxes for him at work (see, validating his feelings, right?)

We talked about the pets, and I mentioned how the cats have been sleeping in bed with me. He joked that it was b/c he's not here to kick them out of bed like he used to, and I said how I preferred him as a bedmate than the cats. (in a light way, I promise!) That was the only R thing I said. I'm proud of myself. He said he'll be here at 7 on Wednesday, and that was it.

Now I'm just hoping that DD and I won't have a repeat of last night. We were up most of the night with her screaming. I think I'm going on about 4 hours total sleep and will probably go to bed pretty soon.

Whew, that is not much sleep. It sounds like you did really well with WH tonight - congratulations!

For DD, has your dr. approved a little Tylenol or anything for the teething? I personally find my kids are just different kids on Bubblegum Motrin it takes the pain away so well when they are sick, but it does tend to make them a little hyper. Anyway, you might want to ask the dr... spare yourself and DD the sleepless nights. Otherwise, the teething gels, never had a ton of luck with them, but...?
You need some sleep!

That is weird about him locking his truck in the driveway - what's inside that he is so worried about??? I'll tell you - his alien fog secrets, that's what! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> There's probably an alien handbook in there, the secret textbook of all WS, ...

Good night & Take care - NTL

Yep, I broke out the tylenol last night. Also some ear drops just in case, since she's had a stuffy nose since H left. I think my mistake was not giving her the tylenol before she went to bed. A problem I remedied tonight. We've tried the teething gel, too, with little success. Also the teething tablets. Some people swear by them, but I don't think they do much for DD.

Something else that was kinda funny this evening. While H and I were playing with DD on the floor, she wouldn't leave me alone. Crawling ALL over me saying "Mamama" with a huge grin. I even scooted away and she followed me. Then she got down and started crawling towards H. He got all excited and said, "Oh, are you coming to see me?" Nope. She was making a beeline for her favorite kitty.

Ooohh, I bet that hurt his feelings. Kids (and especially babies of course, being completely unaware of other's feelings) are good barometers of how they feel and who they are close to. Obviously, DD is getting her needs met by you right now, and is not extremely attached to her Dad? He is going to need to spend A LOT more time with her for her to feel about him the way she feels about you it would seem. Maybe this will be a wakeup call for him that he is going to miss out on a lot of little moments with DD as a family... has he been moved out of the house the entire time DD has been born? You can't really know someone like you live with them, if you don't live with them, right? How old is she, I'm guessing 8-10 mos or so?

Has your Mom forgiven me yet for recommending that DD go with WH on Friday??? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> I don't blame her if she thinks we are all crazy pushovers... I know it looks that way from the outside sometimes!

Better luck with the teething and sleep tonight, I'm sure the preventative pre-bed Tylenol will do the trick, I just KNOW it. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

NTL

Aaaah, not a peep out of her last night. I'm so thankful!

H only moved out a couple months ago, when she had just turned 7 months old. She will be 9 months old next week, so you can picture the stage she's at... just now really developing her personality, showing that she has emotions, etc. Such a cutie, and if it actually comes down to the big D, she will obviously be the best thing that came out of my 11 years with H. I hope H will understand what he's missing out on. Maybe there will be some moment next week when he goes back to his lonely, empty apartment after spending time here with DD and me? I feel like I did a good job keeping things light when he was here last night. If only I can keep that up...

I explained to Mom about what you all said about Friday, and she seemed OK with it. She, like just about everyone else in my life, is convinced I'd be better off without H and that I should just take him to the cleaners in a divorce and move on with my life. I'm so glad I found this and the divorcebusters board. It's so helpful to get different points of view and advice from folks who have been here.

How was today? I'm glad you found MB too, just like I'm glad we found it when we did. Sounds like your Plan A is going well.

Just remember, and I'm sure you read it on the divorce busters board as well, there IS no easy path out of the situation you are in. Reconstructing a marriage after infidelity is HARD. Divorce (especially with a shared child) is HARD. Don't mislead yourself or let others mislead you to thinking that "moving on with your life" is so easy; take your time deciding that.

After I filed for D, my nurse practitioner, about 20 years older than me, was hearing of my sitch due to STD tests. She had been thru the exact same 20 years earlier, divorced and her & her H were both remarried to nice people and they shared several kids between them. Her kids were starting to date & marry. Sounds good, right? He's remarried, she's remarried, they are still on friendly terms, it all worked out. Whew I thought. What advice would she have for me?

"Well,... my one piece of advice I would have for you," she offered...

...I sat on the edge of the OBGYN bench, with my paper gown wrapped around me, bated breath, "YES??? I'm dying to hear!"

"If there's any way to work it out, do it."


I had just filed for D the week before. It was SO not what I wanted to hear!!! I just said, "Well, we'll see. I don't know." and left the office.

But it was what I needed to hear when I needed to hear it. Even though it was the last thing I wanted to hear. kwim?

NTL

Believe me, I want things to work out with H more than anything. Everyone tells me to just move on since he already has, but I don't want to. I want my H back, I want our family back. However, the guy I'm dealing with now is NOT my H. This guy lies. He's shacking up with OW. He says mean, hurtful things. He hides money. I also think he has a new cell phone b/c I checked our account today, and just about the only calls he's made/received over the past week or so are to/from me. I know that can't be right, b/c he said yesterday he talked to his sister Sunday.

So while I hope and pray daily, hey sometimes hourly, that the H I fell in love with will come back, I have to prepare myself for the distinct possibility that he's gone forever and this new jerky WH is taking his place. Man, I hate to think like that, but what choice do I have?

Speaking of Sunday, FIL called while DD and I were at church, and when I called back, MIL answered. It felt a little awkward talking to her. I told her about H not giving DD and me enough money and my concerns about him taking her Friday, and she didn't seem as supportive as she has been. I'm thinking WH has gotten to her. I can see that happening, b/c she flat out hated her bro's wife and made little effort to hide it when the wife wasn't around. This is H's uncle who is remarrying this weekend after getting divorced from an unhappy marriage he stayed in for the kids' sakes. The same guy WH has talked to for support and advice.

DD and I went to La Leche League tonight. It's always good to be around other moms and their babies, although tonight's topic was depressing... breastfeeding and family dynamics. They were talking about how dads can feel left out. I didn't say much about our sitch, but I was really hurting inside.

One positive thing today: I'm so glad the plugged duct got cleared up today. We took care of it during my lunchtime visit to daycare today. I'm still a little sore but much better!

Oh, that mommies babies thing. Just made me recall a Mary Kay party right after my H moved out the first time and I had just found out about OW and her pregnancy story (that time a lie)... being around all these soccer moms talking about getting made up for their husbands. All I said, to the rep, about winning a door prize was "Trust me, I really deserve it this week!" She said Why's that... my kids were there and I said "I just do." My mom affirmed "She does."

It's hard that your IL's aren't maybe completely supportive. In the mindset of keeping open communication and a good relationship with them, I would recommend just being warm, honest, sharing your desire to keep your family together, don't display too much hostility to them about your WH's moronic actions, your concern for your M and DD, and your WH's state of mind. The more they talk to you and see that you haven't turned into some crazy whatever, as WH may imply, (?) the more they will stay in your court to support your family. I think WH families don't quite know what to do in these situations, they try to help and be supportive, they want H to be happy, and a lot of the times they just don't understand the dynamics of affairs themselves, so they buy into a lot of the crap that WH is selling.

Your H is in the fairly early stages of his A it sounds like, he's very confused, and he isn't the person you know & love... this anger, hiding money, lying, shacking up with OW... this isn't your H. He's the alien.

You stay strong and keep your "A" game going (plan A, that is!) - I really have faith he'll come around. Patience, wait, patience, wait, patience, wait... that's all God told me for Months and Months... You and your family are in my prayers.

NTL

Thanks, NTL. I've been trying to follow that advice already about the ILs. I haven't said much to them, only that I truly love their son, that I want our family to be together, that I'm doing OK with DD.

Wow... I don't know what it is, but I feel really cruddy this morning. I'm guessing that whatever it was that DD had, I've got it now. Hacking up yucky stuff. I'll probably call in sick this morning to get some rest, after I get DD to daycare...

Oh, sounds like you need a day of chickflix! OR, my favorites when I'm sick, Northern Exposure, Little House on the Prairie and Little Bear (cartoon, Nick, don't think it's on anymore...?)

I hope you feel better, take a bath, make some tea and relax on the couch and enjoy some (as my 6-year-old calls it) "me-time."

NTL

I ended up coming in anyway. I started feeling a little better once I got DD up and around this morning. Besides, I didn't think I could handle staying home alone all day in that big empty house.

I'm feeling really anxious and antsy today about H, though. It's very hard to concentrate. I just hate this whole situation, and I think my anger is starting to overpower the sadness. To give you an idea of how upset I am, I actually paid for a psychic reading last week on ebay. It wasn't much money, so I figured why not? Surely it can't hurt. My mom has used this lady for readings before and said they are very helpful. The lady is supposed to get back to me today, and I will probably post her answers here for you all to see, too.

Back to the ILs... when I talked to her Sunday, I did tell MIL about my concerns about H not giving us enough money and about H taking DD for so long Friday with her not taking a bottle from him. She didn't say much about the money and just said, "She will be fine." That's why I'm feeling maybe she's not as supportive as she was before. I wonder what H has said to her...

So he got a new phone two weeks ago and neglected to tell me. It's through the same phone company that OW uses. Go figure.

I thought we had a good compromise about the cookout Friday, but now he's saying he doesn't want me to come pick her up at the party because "I'm not invited." He said it in a very nasty, hurtful way, saying I don't have any considerations about the feelings of HIS family. Like he thinks I'm going to cause a scene or something. Like just because he doesn't want me anymore that I can't be seen by the people I've considered as my family for the past 11 years. Whatever. Personally, I think it's b/c he's ashamed, as he should be. But I just said I'm sorry he feels that way.

We talked about R for a long time. He says this is something that has to happen, that he's not ruining my life b/c I'm a strong person. That DD and I will be OK. He said he knows how it looks but staying with OW was his only option so he could build up finances to get an apartment. There was no one else he could impose on, he says.

I didn't say it was crazy or anything like I have before, but I did say that I am very hurt, that this is not my choice, that I am still committed to our marriage. I asked him if he really has no feelings for me at all, and he said he can't ignore our history. He said we have had a lot of good times, but there are a things he wants to forget, which he wouldn't go into. He said the past is an indicator of the future and he can't live with that anymore. I told him how sorry I am that this is happening.

He said he is totally prepared for the responsibility of raising a daughter and for four years, he was prepared for the responsibility of being married. He says he's trying to do what he can b/c he knows this is painful for me.

I just don't know what to think right now. I am so hurt and angry at this situation. I feel betrayed and victimized. I also don't feel in my heart that he's going to come back to the marriage at all. What should I do now?

I would go back and reread the post by my DH to you again, just as a refresher on all the junk your WH is thinking. It might help remind you that these hurtful things, this possessiveness over his family, his justifying being with OW, his feelings about your M being over, his supposed preparedness for raising DD is all part of the fog.

Continue with your Plan A.

Oh, and the psychic reading? I think you should pray instead. I'll be curious what she says and what you think, but be careful putting too much stock in the words of people who are not necessarily dialed in to God. In all likelihood, a psychic just has a good knowledge of dynamics of affairs, and are able to "predict" what will happen just as well as an MBer! From experience, not psychic abilities... ?

NTL

I will continue to plan A my heart out, but at this point, I don't see it doing any good. H is the kind of person who, when he makes up his mind, he follows through no matter what. Ironically, that's one of the things I love about him.

I'm just afraid of being too optimistic here, but we'll see what happens in a few weeks after he has his own apartment and realizes how tight money is.

SadMommy, I said the EXACT same thing about my husband. I'm serious. The EXACT same thing. He seemed so sure, and he is a very decisive person.

You hang in there!!!

NTL
[color:"purple"]
Psalm 34:15-22
The eyes of the LORD watch over those who do right;
his ears are open to their cries for help.

But the LORD turns his face against those who do evil;
he will erase their memory from the earth.

The LORD hears his people when they call to him for help.
He rescues them from all their troubles.

The LORD is close to the brokenhearted;
he rescues those who are crushed in spirit.

The righteous face many troubles,
but the LORD rescues them from each and every one.

For the LORD protects them from harm--
not one of their bones will be broken!

Calamity will surely overtake the wicked,
and those who hate the righteous will be punished.

But the LORD will redeem those who serve him.
Everyone who trusts in him will be freely pardoned.
[/color]

That is a great Psalm, NTL. Thank you so much. I printed it out and stuck it next to my computer here at work. You always find the right thing to say.

What forum is your thread under? I'd love to see some of the stuff you guys went through and what folks said to you...

Sad -

I've just read your sitch for the first time as you've signed up for the Atlanta get-together. I am so sorry that you find yourself in this situation. I didn't realize DD is an infant.

Sad, I know this is really, really hard. I remember the night my wife told me, for the very first time, that she didn't love me and wished she'd never have married me. I will NEVER forget that feeling, and I know the hurt.

There is no way that I can offer you any specifica advice any better than what you are getting here. But...one thing I had to learn is that taking care of ME was more important than taking care of the marriage. This initially struck me as hedonistic, but believe me...in due time the reality and truthfulness of it came home to me.

The well-being of you and DD, together, is what matters the most at this point. Take care of yourself (first) to allow yourself to be able to take care of DD.

WH will have to make up his own mind in due time. What a shame......

I look forward to meeting you and DD.

Georgia