In relation to recent to a recent thread - I have a question that a fellow MB-er <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> and I have been pondering and would like to hear what all of you have to say.

Some of you know my sitch: BS, DD's 20,13 D Nov, 04, separated April '04...

There is a woman who is deeply interested in the two of us becoming more (much more) than just friends (no bene's <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />). She is basically all that I desire in a woman: Intelligent, attractive, good Mom, responsible, enjoys having fun, laughs at my jokes, appreciates how I love & treat my daughters, appreciates my work and so on & so on...

Problem is: I don't have "those" kind of feelings for her. It's just not there. I like her and enjoy being around her, no question, but just no fireworks.

My question: Back when we MB-ers were all married; we were led to believe (by the Harley's and many other pro's) that when "the fire" is gone from our marriage, we can "act" it back through various methods. If true - then is it reasonable to conclude that I could "act" my way into having "those" type feelings for this lady? If yes - and with regard to the fact that she possesses all other qualities that I desire - is my thinking reasonable? Correct? Whacko?

Opinions please!!!

FR

Well, I'm anxious to see the answers, cuz I'm confused too. You sound like the guy that just broke up with me after 4 weeks. He just didn't have "those" feelings. I'm like you, assume the good ol' MB stuff... if the EN's are being filled, the love bank fills up, and "those" feelings develop.

Whenever I don't have "those" feelings, I can identify which EN's are not being met. From what I've experienced, anyway.

((FR))

I was married for 12 years and I can without a doubt say that it took me atleast 2 years before I could even pretend to think about considering those feelings. And probably more like 3 years before my vision was clear enough to see everything for what it was truly worth.

Sure I had people along the way who I questioned if I could have feelings for, but in hindsight, for me, those would have been disasters even though on one hand I could have truly all those great things you said about this woman about them.

I'm presuming you were married in the range of 20 years, so really you are early along in the recovery process. Could you force what isn't there, sure, I believe you could. But I don't think it's wise to do so.......

Hi Fishracer, Don't get me wrong I'm not advocating for pre-marital sex if that's not something you'd consider, but could it be that you've tried so hard to not let "those" feelings predominate your relationship with this woman that you don't allow for them when you are with her?

Have you kissed her with any passion? Touched her in an intimate (not sexual) way? Perhaps you need to let yourself "go" on that direction just a bit to know how you respond to her & she responds to you. Could be you're both busy sizing up the other as potential mates in every other sense you've let the thought of passion slip a bit.

My opinion is if this is how you feel during dating, it would only get worse down the road.

In MB-ese, if you don't have the fireworks, it means she is not fulfilling some ENs of yours - attractive spouse, conversation, whatever - I would walk away.

I once tried to force fit someone "great on paper" into a romantic relationship, it did not work out - in the end, I did not have the excitement/fireworks to continue. Maybe I'm shallow, but that's how it was for me.

AGG

I am by no means a MB expert. (however, that isn't going to stop me)

I would say that for whatever reason, there is/are ENs that she is not naturally meeting for you. Could she eventually meet these ENs? Perhaps. Arranged marriages work all the time, but there is tremendous social pressure that makes them work. You don't have that pressure, so it might not be as successful.

Sometimes ENs can't be worked out. I tried making relationships work where physical attractiveness was not being met for me. No matter how great a person she was AND no matter how hard we both tried, I just couldn't get past the deficit of this EN.

Fishracer, I'm going to suggest something you may consider radical. Do you think that at 47, you will ever have fireworks again? Or could it be that your feelings for this woman, who is everything you ever want in a woman, will develop is a slower and more mature way. Don't expect your relationships to progress now they way they did 20 years ago. You aren't the youngster who would fall madly in love at the drop of a hat. Real love takes time to form. Just enjoy the woman's company and give it some, unless there is something about her that lets you know that you will never love her. If you force this, trying to use techniques intended to relight love in a troubled marriage, you will regret it.

FR~~

Your thinking is reasonable to me, BUT,

I don't think you could "act" or fake feelings into a relationship. Yeah, if you were married, maybe you could re-kindle these feelings, but to "make" them from the beginning, nah, I think it would be too hard. Were talking long term here Fish.

I'm tiptoeing here but, wouldn't the acting part come through in the performance dept?
It would for me. And why would you want to act/fake that?

I think it's very flattering that this woman is that into you, really I do. And, she possesses[sp] the qualities that you so desire, but........
there must be something missing.

Maybe its the plain fact that she is that available to you that makes her less desirable to you "in that way"

I read a book that said,[imagine??] we don't have to find something wrong with a person for them not to be right for us.

I guess I say, continue with the friendship, maybe something more will come of it in time, or maybe Ms Right is out there waiting for you to find her.

Your bud, (oh, and I don't think your whacko!)
K!

Why don't you try dating for a little bit and see what happens? Just don't rush things, don't make promises, don't say things you don't mean, and keep everything out on the table. There's no rush for those "love" feelings to develop, but you'll know when it's time to give up, I bet. But if you enjoy each other's company, why not spend some time together? Just tell her it's that way from the beginning.

My .02?

Yes, you are just not into her........

Why?

Could be a myriad of reasons. Bottom line is, people can look great on paper, but if the initial attraction isn't there, it just isn't.

DW

Wow. Thanks for all the quick replies!

LH: I know that I'm still fairly early in recov and was hoping to hear from others and their like experiences. I think that might be the big issue here, but I'm just not sure. I've talked directly to her about this and all she says is that she's "going to wait until I'm ready".

nams: Good point. I've "kinda" tried to let this happen, but it feels a little mechanical if you know what I mean.

AGG: That would be my biggest fear. And not so much for me - but for her. I really do not want to hurt this woman.

Bigguy: Perhaps it's because I am not allowing her to meet those EN's!

Check: I have to tell you that this made me laugh out loud! It was great. I know how you meant it, but I quickly saw myself as struggling to get out of my wheelchair and stand up long enough to see the fireworks. Then I gave up because I knew darn well I wouldn't remember seeing them! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> I know your point and all I can say is that at 45 (when all was "well" with xw) seeing fireworks was never a problem, so I don't forsee it to be a problem now. As to the rest of your advice - it's very good and that is the direction I'm leaning.

Ah My Dear Karona: Of course you had to bring up the performance-question! I felt my face get hot and my neck turn red when I read that one! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> Thank you for "tip-toeing"! Oh - I'm sure it would for me as well. Your points are valid and I will give them more thought. Thanks.

Faith1: Good advice - I think I'll try it.

DW: That's what I'm afraid of.

FR

Oh - I'm sure it would for me as well. Your points are valid and I will give them more thought. Thanks.


Oh, was it a "stomp"? Sorry, but that is the first thing that comes to my mind when I think of not having "those" feelings. I just am not good at faking, especially at "that"
Hey, I know exactly what you mean about your neck turning red. It happens to me sometimes!

Well, now you have to keep us posted!! [I mean about the dating part]

K!

Sorry FR, I had to do a little highjack here,

Check,

I hope you're wrong. I'm 42, and I'm definitely counting on the "WOW" factor.

Sometimes I wonder if it would be different at this point in life, but in all honesty, I'm hoping for the complete all knowing signs.

Karona

Karona, I DO believe there are fireworks after 40 - I've met many couples who've met later in life after divorce and they say there are fireworks. It's NOT necessarily the same as the young, inexperienced love of youth, but it's there.

Check, sometimes I wonder if your divorce has hurt you so much that you just can't see that people over 40 are still emotional humans capable of feeling the thrills and excitement of a new relationship just as much as a younger person. We might be more cautious, maybe more careful about taking the same risks, but we still feel the feelings. I don't mean this in a mean-spirited way, it actually concerns me on your behalf. You've stated that you know you are not ready for a romantic love relationship, but it almost seems sometimes like you're trying to prepare YOURSELF for a life without the excitement of new, passionate, love. And that makes me sad, because I know it can happen if you let it. Maybe I'm totally off-base, but that's what I'm wondering ...

Getting back to FR's original question... I think you actually answered your own question, or at least touched on the truth behind what you're asking:
"when 'the fire' is gone from our marriage, we can 'act' it back." I think it's clear that "the fire" has to have been already been experienced in the relationship for you to "act it back" if it fades. There is history to draw on, common experiences to look back at.

This is not the case with a relationship such as the one you are talking about. I don't think you can "pretend" it into something it's not. It's possible that later on, when you are more ready for a romantic involvement, that you might find that your feelings could change for this woman, but I truly don't think YOU can FORCE it.

So ... you are just not into her THAT way.

Just my thoughts...

CS

Whoa there all. Let me clarify something. I am not suggesting that after age 40, we turn into cold, unemotional creatures. We can, do, and will love, BUT the nature of that love is NOT and SHOULD NOT be that starry-eyed school girl/school boy infatuation that got our motor running years ago. Always keep one thing in mind about those "fireworks": They go up fast, make a big boom, make you go ooooooohhhhhh, and then they fizzle. Most hot, passionate relationships fail.

Now, having said that, let me say further that I'd use a different analogy: a fire place. You select the right wood, light it and tend to it, and it will burn as long as you need it. It'll get you through the long, dark nights and be a comfort to you. And when you want it, treat yourself to a fireworks show.

See the subtle difference in my thinking? I can assure you that it is not the product of bitterness, bur rather of careful consideration. I'm simply trying to reevaluate some things in my life and look at them from a middle-aged perspective.

FR, I wanted to also suggest to you that you mention that you are still in the early stage of the recovery process. Do you think it's possble that your heart knows you need more time and just isn't going to make the turn onto Love Street yet? If so, my original advice remains.

Could it be chemistry is missing?

I really didn't believe that chemistry existed, but my friends talked about it alot and said you just know.
Now, for some reason I have chemistry with my BF, but he's lacking the "must haves" for a real LTR. So for now, I'm exploring the chemistry side of things. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

"Chemistry" is a dangerous term. I've found it has so many meanings to so many people, that it's pretty useless. I think we all know that too many people are sniffing around for the wrong chemical to begin with. What do I mean by this? I read a very wise thing a few years ago:

The qualities that make someone a great boyfriend or girlfriend are not necessarily the ones that will make him/her a great husband or wife. Decide what you require from your spouse and seek those qualities in those you date.

This kind of relegates "chemistry" to the back seat doesn't it?

FR,
My view on new R's is this: If I know he isn't for me, and I for him, let's move on. I have a pretty clear idea of what I want in a R, and if he can't provide it, I want to find the one that can. I don't want to waste his time or mine. I don't want to lead him into thinking that one day I'll be able to give him what he needs (and in my most recent case vice versa). To me, in the initial stages of dating you show your best side, and if I'm not feeling it, I'm going to move on quick, because either someone's not ready or they simply aren't going to be able to meet my needs, either not capable, or not able-either way, no good for me.
I also don't want someone who has to "act" their way into feeling something for me. That's not really fair to me. I'd rather move on and find the one that can do naturally.
Check,
I would love to have fireworks, and I'm hoping someday I will get them, but only after I know the guy and it really is "love". I think you are right about some of what you are saying, but rather than looking at my age and thinking I'm too old for that, I'm thinking I'm more wise to distinguish the difference between lust, infactuation, and love. Love takes time, lust-EASY!! Infactuation lasts until you really get to know the darker side of someone.
I think you can have fireworks with all three, but I want the one that lasts...

Break it down by EN's



I see here: AS (attractive), DS (domestic), FS (financial), RC (recreation), AD (admiration).

Are those your top 5?
If not, what are your top 5? Have you given her a chance on any of those?

Crystal: Agreed.


Check: Absolutely this is possible!


Newly: I made 2 very big mistakes with women who I had the right "chemistry" with. [Using "chemistry" in the traditional sense here.] Therefore, I do not want to make the same mistake(s) again, thus my overall reason for this thread. A good friend told me that chemistry is best left in the classroom! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Drita: I share your views to a "T". However in my case; if the problem really is that my recovery isn't complete, and say in a year, my recovery becomes "complete" - is it reasonable to think that my feelings toward this woman may be different? BTW: I'm crystal clear with her about my feelings (lack thereof) and she says that she's choosing to wait until I'm ready. Even after I've tried to convince her otherwise - her strong desire is to wait this out. So, she clearly feels it's all about my recovery.


Lexxy: She's meeting 4 out of 5. I have not given her a chance on SF, so I cannot answer about that one.

Thanks all.

FR