I haven't posted a lot, but some of my story has been shared. (I'm hoping my subject line was interesting enough for some responses.:)

I am finding it hard to handle it these days.

I am just about ready to ask for a separation. When I first found out about the A, I was the one saying that I will forgive you and we can work this out. It took a little while before my WW decided she would stay. Now, it seems like I'm going backwards.

For several years, I've been the giver in the R, and it turned me into a dependent weakling. I'm quickly finding my backbone again and moving towards some strong boundaries. 5 years ago, my W had a short EA. I didn't see it as such at the time and we didn't really get any help. After that I changed my ways to give, give, give... I guess out of fear. The EA ended because he left the city. When I asked her recently if that would have progressed to a PA, she said "no... because of who he was???!!!" If it was the person she recently had the PA with now, it would have been a PA 5 years ago? If so, is she a serial offender???

Now, things are going along as well as can be expected. We are sleeping together, with some intimacy. We can talk most of the time without confrontation. I have been able to most of the time be strong enough now to not sit around in a hurt or rejected daze. I've only blown up once... even when she has said some hurtful things.
I am getting focused back on work, my kids, and doing other things.
We have just sold our home to try and get out of debt... a decision made together... and we have just a month to find a new place.
We also are having her Mom move back into an apartment... she has been living with us the past year... and that was most definately a mistake.
I've made a huge improvement in my listening and communicating skills... now I'm paying attention.
My wife wants to quit her job and work parttime... the MC thinks it is a good idea. All I hear about in regular conversation is about her job. Because of the A and our sich, she cancelled her plans to enter school for nursing this month. She doesn't have a clue as to what she wants to do and she feels so upset without a "purpose". I've tried to support any decision she's made. She wanted to be an airline stewardess, a nurse, she's now an Exec. Assistant. She even worked 3 years with me as my Exec. Assistant. She wants to be a massage therapist. She wants to stay home with the kids. She wants to buy homes, fix them up and flip them. I've always supported any decision she would make and have gone into debt over it (My fault for being so dependent and not standing up for what I felt we should do).

We've stopped attending our church which I've gone to for 20 years (OM goes there). She is upset about that (she's gone her whole life). She realizes she has to but is so torn.

She is still acting so self-absorbed. Never asks about my needs. Won't talk about the details of the A and feels it is her right to only answer what she wants (I guess that's true, and then it is my choice to accept that or leave).
She still has not made a NC letter... although has grudgingly said she would. But I feel I have to ask again for it, she won't ever write it on her own. She says it will hurt OM feelings. LOL
Last night she went to a dinner for work. Spouses were invited but she did not ask me to go. When I asked about it she said she assumed I wouldn't want to go... that I would rather spend time with the kids. That is true, but it should have been my choice. When I said this, I also said I felt that she was either embarrassed to take me or felt she would have a better time without me. She said she didn't want to go herself and would be home within a couple of hours. She was gone 5 hours. (Yes, it did cross my mind that she had made contact with OM, but I don't really think so).

I'm willing to keep fighting for this marriage and do the hard work... but is this a losing battle? Will she always be selfish and will another A happen? Should I just ask her to find her own place now that we are moving anyway. (I've put a call into a lawyer to find out about custody of my 2 sons).

I love her, but I cannot live like I have the last few years... giving and not receiving... only to have my heart ripped out anyway. Now that she has been knocked off the pedestal I had placed her on, it is so hard to know what to do and my feelings keep jumping around every hour.

Am I still expecting too much too soon. Should I still be hopeful? Is this normal? Or should I stand my ground and tell her I need time alone and get a place for me and my sons to live (assuming I can take them with me legally).

Any advice?

Shaden

Judge a person by their actions and not by their words. Unfortunately your wife's actions speak volumes. I wish you luck.

oh yeah... forgot one important piece of information.

My WW has said that she does not feel that total honesty is necessary in marriage. She feels that some secrets are fine to protect the spouse... I guess like A's???

I told her recently that I was feeling good about attention from another W. It did not go past that point and I'm not thinking about it... it just felt good to have some affirmation of attraction again. I feel completely unattractive now. This W just got married, but she was feeling confused before her M. I encouraged her to get M, even though she knew I was having trouble with mine... (she doesn't know about the A). I told my W that I was happy to see how happy she was at her wedding... it was a relief to me.
She felt I was telling her to hurt her and gain revenge. I truly felt the reason I told her was to start sharing everything. We had a habit in our past to hide things to "protect". I don't want to do this anymore.

She still feels it is right and necessary to keep secrets. This is a major concern for me for our future and will be a boundary I will have to decide on.

Shaden

If you plan to fight for custody you'd better be preparing your case now even while you trying to rebuild your marriage. You do this on the backside so to speak. Documenting/journaling everything you do for the kids and the neglect/abandonment of your WW. Never threatening or alerting her to the possibility your going to fight her for custody and giving her a chance to preempt your case. It may seem like she doesn't care but once she gets with attorney's they push the case for custody because of the preconceived notion the kids will be better off with Mom or just Mom can get them merely cause she wants them. Not to mention the WW only tells her lawyer maybe about 1/365th of the truth.

Hopefully, with MB you can pull your real wife out of the fog and restore your marriage. If you never had a proper recovery before don't sweat the serial cheater language. Leave that for a later determination. It's too tough to label a WW cause they are absolutely nuts right now.

Another benefit of getting custody of the kids is that losing custody may eventually be the magnet that wakes her up and draws her back to her family.

It is not always easy for the husband to get custody you must start preparing now just in case. Read Gramn's thread around May and June when Mortarman was coaching Gramn on all the things necessary to win custody.

Keep posting, reading and asking questions.

Good Luck, Mr. Wondering

Her comment that total honesty is not necessary for a marriage after she has already had a separate emotional affair and a separate physical affair that put your health at risk for STD's says it all. With an attitude like this I think it will be a matter of time before she cheats on you again. Why anyone would wish to stay in a marriage with a person who says honesty is not necessary for a marriage is beyond me. I would be looking at getting a good lawyer. Life is far too short to waste time with someone who has such an attitude. I am afraid your past will certainly be your future if you stay with such a person. Her moral compass seems hopelessly broken. I wish you luck.

ITS FOG-FOG-FOG

Bryanp - he can't know if it's her character until she's out of the fog. All WW say absolutely crazy things. Plenty of marriages push the boundaries of EA because they don't know better. Maybe she will stay in the fog the rest of her life then it is/becomes/always was her "character". But nobody knows that now.

Plan A'ing,focusing on yourself and what you can do better, fighting for your marriage so that if it is in fact her "character" and you end up divorced then you will have no regrets. At least you tried.

I thought my wife belonged in a mental hospital. She suggested I get another girlfriend and we just stay married. If your read her current posts you'll see I found my wife again. Now that you've got MB principles and a place to discuss things you have the tools to at least attempt a recovery.

Marriage Building principles incorporate simultaneously preparing yourself to move on. You will make it, with or without your wife, you will make it.

Mr. Wondering

Thanks, Mr. Wondering, for the advice.

I am starting a journal now of events, actions, words.

BryanP... you are correct, however, I am still hopeful that some of the actions are because it is still fairly early in the process. I haven't followed all the advice in the past...mainly about exposure, and I believe I lost my opportunity without major LBing. If I were to find any new contact, exposure would be high on my list of things to do. But, we are moving forward together. I guess my main problem is dealing with the fact that we are now more balanced in our feelings... I've come "down" to her level and am not just in "worship" mode anymore. I am seeing her faults as well as her many positive attributes and it scares me to wonder what the future will be.

She has a definite and strong sense of entitlement... she feels she is entitled to a nice home, a good, fulfilling job, a strong father figure (which she did not have), immediate and continual respect from friends and co-workers, happiness, love, an affair (??), her secrets, etc., without realizing how much work everything is. I would like her to explain this point of view to the good people in New Orleans.

I feel like my posts are just dwelling on the negative of my WW. Believe me, I have done a lot of soul-searching and dwelling on my own faults and contributions to our problems and am trying to improve each one. My first reaction in all things is to see what I could or should have done better... this is one of the reasons that made me into such a doormat. I would always take the blame and be the first to apologize. One of the main faults I've had is being too dependent and weak. It actually hurts me to be talking negative about my W, but I am doing it to try and bring balance, feel my anger and pain, and get some strength. If this is backwards thinking, please, someone tell me.

Shaden

Wayward Spouses cannot even read a real compass, so full of fog are their heads; so is it any wonder that reading a moral compass is a challenge that they aren't up to? They can't think for themselves and they can't be expected to tell the truth. They are consumed by the affair. They live from moment to moment laying the groundwork for their next fix.

Anything said or done which can be viewed as supporting the addiction is validated, appreciated, pursued. A WW will even sleep with a BS during the affair to shut him up and keep him from either leaving, exposing, talking about it, going to MC. She may even have sex to just feed the affair (discussion fodder for OM).

Whereas, anything mentioned, discussed, done which tends to interfere with her addiction is beat down, ridiculed, attacked or avoided altogether. The best defense is a good offense. It is a trial and error method employed by the WW to keep the affair continuing. When it starts to get really tough they push for a separation to ease their guilt and many times to protect the BS.

Deep down they know it's wrong but they can't read their moral compass. That is why the BS needs to be the lighthouse guiding his WW back home.

Kind of a rambling Post - Sorry

Mr. Wondering

I suppose when I think clearly for a few minutes (these times are few and far between), that I have had considerable changing to do. I had to become the "man" that she could respect instead of the "milk and cookies" good guy always doing to please. She wants this change, and although I believe it is happening, it is too soon for her to determine whether or not the change is real or just a show. Also, as the change is not yet complete, I still fall back into my old pattern sometimes, she does not trust the change yet.

If I think along these lines, then it is far too soon for her to commit to the changes she needs to make. Yes, she had the affair, but she was also the one with the "courage"... sorry, a really bad choice of words in this context and in no way do I think the affair was positive or the only way to fix things... to look to make her/our life better than what it was. We both were holding in our emotions and needs, and we were living in a sense of numbed existence. She wants more... and hopefully, and I think I believe, that she wants more with me. She just, in her state of fog, made some extremely poor choices. I need to decide if I can live with these choices and heal the hurting. The MC believes she was in a numbed fog well before the A. This was a way to try and "save" herself and escape from her numbness. Still, a bad choice, but in understanding this, it makes it easier for me to try and recover the M.

Shaden

Shaden

Another few moments of clarity...

I guess I also have to realize all that she is dealing with at once.

She is moving out of a beautiful home which we bought just one year ago and will probably move to a much smaller place or apartment and could lose our dogs.

She is displacing her Mom... feeling guilty and worried about that. Her Mom has some health problems and strapped financially.

She has had to leave her church...one she has been at her whole life.

She is "grieving" the loss of the OM. I would like to say a lot of negative to this one... but I do realize it is a part of the process.

She is hating herself.

she is still unsure of our future.

She hates her job and will probably quit as soon as she can.

She has had to face up to her Mom and twin sister who she had also lied to.

She knows she has hurt me badly and is feeling guilty... maybe not yet remorseful, but the guilt and pain is there.

Her emotions are so tied up in a knot, she is still finding it hard to cry or feel. She says if she starts crying, she doesn't feel like she will stop for days.

I guess this is where I can show her that I can be a man... suck it up and wait until she is able to help me heal. I keep seeing the word "Patience" in front of me everywhere I go and with everything I read. I think someone is trying to teach me something.

She is defensive as she is not quite ready to give up the fight and submit to shame, guilt, forgiveness, love... all the things we are feeling. She is trying to be strong for her work, for the kids, and so she doesn't go under.

Shaden

Ok, I majorly LB'd yesterday.

First of all, I sent an email to her Mom. If you read the rest of the posts, you will know that she is living in the same house and is now looking for an apartment because we sold the house.

We have not been talking for a while... I am upset with her and awkward so she is awkward with me. We avoid each other in the house.

My email was to say that i want to work things out with her before she leaves as she is important to my W and therefore important to me.

I explained how I felt... embarrassed and humiliated that her daughter felt she needed another man other than me... guilty for displacing her from her home... angry from her comment when she first found out about the affair... she said something like "Oh I hope it's not true... why would she choose him?... now we'll all have to leave our church." She was not concerned that her daughter had an A, just with who it was with and how it affected her. I told her in the email that I felt that she didn't care with her daughter and I stayed together... this after me agreeing to invite her into my home and help her out financially. I felt that I have always treated her daughter with respect.

Anyway, she showed my W the email and she was upset that I would send an email. She said it sounded angry and I was blaming her Mom. I did not blame her for anything other than the fact that she was complaining to her daughter that I was not talking to her but yet she has never tried to talk to me about her concerns. In the past I have approaced her when there has been tension.

The conversation went to the home we are going to move into... which is not a happy thought for my W. There were some things said in reference to the A to which she told me to be quiet... the kids will hear and know what happened. I answered... "you should have thought of that before you started it all." She asked me to leave the room.

This morning I emailed her at work with an apartment I was going to see and asked her to come with me. She said No, it's too small. It's a garden apt... 3 bedroom with fireplace, separate entrance, AC, beside a community club... what else does she want. Yes, she is moving out of an 1800 sq ft. bungalow... but we have both put us in this situation financially.

My thought is to pick out a place and then say to my WW that I am moving my family to this apartment, she can join us if she wants or can live with her Mom. Any thoughts or advice?

Shaden

Shaden,

While it's impossible for me to say whether your email contained true LB's without my having read it; I just wanted to point out that it is NOT a LB to tell your W or anyone else, that her A is unacceptable behavior to you...

Here is a link to articles by Dr. Harley on Lovebusters.

Also, here's a post by Pepperband about the "carrotstick" of Plan A...It may help you to understand things that you can do to attract your W back to your marriage and the new family home...

Mrs. Wondering

Shaden,

You are trying to solve too many problems at once. Let's start with the housing issue. Solve it be selecting something YOU can afford and is big enough for the kids. Your W apparently has not committed to the marriage so let her decide if she wants to join you and the family.

Next, leave her mother out of this. You cannot win on this one. Your thoughts were in the right place but they will not be well received by your W or MIL, because of their guilt.

But, most of all develop a plan. Part of plan a'ing is having a plan and part of that plan are points of reevaluation. Set this point, 6 months out, 3 months out, or each month. If at some point your evaluation suggests you are losing your love for your W, go to plan B.

Get legal advice, get evidence with regards to the children, etc. But, you next step is plan B, and it should come after you reach a reevaluation point. Until you get to that point, quit worrying aboutt this and do a good plan A. You can quit worrying because you will know that you have sought legal advice, you have an evaluation point, and you have options after this evaluation.

Work the plan, quit worrying about your W so much, and do what you are doing reasserting yourself in your own life, your children's life and yes your W's life.

Finally, find another church and start going there. Good people can be found in just about ANY church so start meeting them. Your MIL can return to her church because she did not have the affair and she is NOT married to you. Encourage her to return, it will help her.

There is a saying I am very fond of and it is actually addressed to learning but seems to be appropriate for your situation.

"In order to master a subject, first you must organize, and then you must simplify."

Do you see the wisdom of doing this in your marriage? I do.

God Bless,

JL

Thank you Mrs. Wondering and Just Learning.

First off, I had a day or two of probably my worst anger yet since this started. In a way, this is good. Because of my dependency, I was the type that wanted to just forgive and fix everything at the beginning. The MC encouraged me to find my anger before it could be fixed. ... I guess I did.

You are correct about simplifying. That is a word my W and I have used. We are trying to get to a place financially that will allow her to choose a new job or less hours. She was on the verge of starting nursing school which she really wanted when our lives were turned upside down and she had to pass on it.

We will be looking for a new church although both of us still wish we could go back to the old church... we both have family and friends there. I have not done a full exposure and I feel I missed my "opportunity" for that. As there is NC, it would just hurt to do so now. If she stopped NC, then I will expose.

My plan up to now has been to work on myself, make the change with the house and church, try and understand how everything has happened, and to be patient with my WW. I haven't followed it perfectly, but it has been good for most days. I don't believe I have LB'd much.

As for my MIL returning to her church... she is, but it is difficult for her and may be impossible if the A were exposed. The OM is the nephew of her 2nd husband... who she also had an A with to break up his M. The history and her actions (even though her 1st H had atleast 3 A's prior to hers) made life difficult for her for many years. This repeat of history by her daughter would probably be reflected on her. I grew up in a world that barely heard of divorce let alone A's, so this is all very hard for me to grasp (my parents are ministers). My W thinks I blame her Mom for my W's affair. I don't, however I have said that I feel because her M's second marriage was much happier than the first, that she may be able to use that information to justify her A to bring her own happiness.

I spoke with legal aide today, and his advice was not very encouraging. He just said my W would get custody. He did say, however, if I invited her to move in to our new home and she didn't, then she is giving up custody.

I guess I could also say my stress is added with work issues. I am dealing with employees in my region being on strike for the first time. Travelling tomorrow for further negotiations with the union.

This evening was much better with my W. I know that not all evenings will be like this, so I will keep reading the advice on plan A. I also read on another post about being a lighthouse. It was excellent and I will try to follow that advice as well.

Thanks again. Any other pointers is always welcome.

Shaden

Things improving???

I would like to think so... even slow improvements.

UPDATE:

My MIL has found an appt. for Oct. 1 and will move soon.

We are putting an offer on a house tonight and pray that we will get it... there is so little available right now.
The funny thing is, the people who we are offering to is actually the family who bought our home... small world.

I asked my W about why we are buying a new house together with so many questions. She said that she still doesn't know the future, but she is choosing to be with me now and wants to focus on that. It was said with more positivity than ever before.

I said that before I do move in to a new home, I need for her to write the NC letter. She has said in the past she would but grudgingly... and still hasn't. This time she agreed without hesitation or anger. She did say that she had hoped her word of NC was enough, but understands that her word is not worth what it once was... she hopes to change that for the future. I said the important thing to me was not the letter, but her willingness to do it. She understands.

She is still very stressed and depressed. She has a Dr's note to be off work on stress leave for a couple weeks and he may try her on medication after... which she doesn't want.

This morning our conversation was positive for the future. I have not been talking about the A very much and she has been happy about that. I said that we can get the house hunting over with and work on taking the stress off of her and then there will be lots of time later for her to help me understand why things happened. For the first time she didn't get anxious or angry over this. She said we will and was appreciative of my ability to wait and give her some time. I still feel like I am doing most of the giving, similar to pre-A... but I am also slowly learning and having the confidence to ask about or say what I am truly feeling.

Our sons started their hockey tryouts this weekend, so I guess the stress doesn't get better... running around about 5 nights a week to 2 rinks can get a bit frazzled... but they love it too much to say no.

Slowly setting and maintaining the boundaries.

Still lots of work to do, but things seem to be progressing.

Shaden

It looks like we're going to get our new house. Simplification has started as you suggested, JustLearning.

My W has been a little more affectionate and open to talking lately.

She is writing the NC letter today or tomorrow. She wants to go to our church for Thanksgiving weekend... both of our families are there (and so is the OM). I agreed, provided the NC letter is there. I know this is a risk, but I think it is one that I can take. We talked about it... about the addiction... eg. you wouldn't put an alchaholic in a room with alchahol... but I am finally believing her that the contact is over. She really is working on us.

I said that I need the letter to state that if he does see us, he is not to come over to talk. She didn't think he would, but I would bet he would... not to cause trouble, just to try and show that everything is normal.

The door was opened to her being more open to telling me the details I need to know. All along she has resisted, but slowly, I believe she is coming around. I said that we would get moved and get some of the stress off of her and then she can help me understand the A and why it happened. She didn't get angry this time and agreed.

A different conversation had us talking more specifically about why I need to know details. She still is resisting, but not as hard. I believe, with a little more time, she will be at a place emotionally that she will be willing to talk about what I need to know.

The roller coaster is heading up!!!

Shaden

Some new twists to everything...

We did get our new home,but then the next day, my W found out that her boss plans to fire her.

She is currently in the middle of a 2 week stress leave her doctor ordered her on and she saw an email stating that he will let her go when she returns. She has not had any warning of problems and in fact, two weeks earlier, her boss told her she was doing a great job, that time off for her personal issues was fine, and gave her a hug. (The hug is not an issue... he is more like her father's age)

She has had a hard time working with him as he is condescending, controlling, and anal. I think he found out her true feelings and wants to get her out. She was going to quit in March and they "begged" her to stay... so she did after negotiating a raise and Friday's off over the summer.

Anyway, we have been fighting together the last few days. She is calling the Board Members and I've been dealing with our lawyer. This common fight is helping to bring us closer together as she is feeling more stress and depression and needs my support for the first time in a long time.

She was planning on quitting soon, so losing her job is not a problem... she just wants to keep her reputation and reference positive... she's never been fired before.

I took my son to hockey tryouts last night and while sitting there, I was writing a todo list in my journal for moving. I turned back the pages and started reading the list of questions I wrote concerning my W's A. For the first time in several days I felt really down and angry. I was able to get over it before I got home, but it hit me how this is going to take so long before it's not always there in front of me.

Will it ever get to a point that I won't have to think about it?

Shaden

Shaden, please tell me you have warned the OMW about this affair and she does not still remain in ignorance of this affair? Does she still choose to be around your W knowing she has had an affair with her H?

Secondly, to continue to go around the OM is playing with fire. There should be no contact ever, even if it means moving to another state. The nc letter is sort of ridiculous if you plan on staying in contact at church every week. No contact means just that, NO CONTACT. It doesn't mean giving someone the silent treatment, it means no contact, by sight or sound.

Harley, who has successfully counseled 100's of couples says this:

"Never see or communicate with a former lover

Once an affair is first revealed, whether it's discovered or admitted, the victimized spouse is usually in a state of shock. The first reaction is usually panic, but it's quickly followed by anger. Divorce and sometimes even murder are contemplated. But after some time passes (usually about three weeks), most couples decide that they will try to pull together and save their marriage.

The one having an affair is in no position to bargain, but he or she usually tries anyway. The bargaining effort usually boils down to somehow keeping the lover in the loop. You'd think that the unfaithful spouse would be so aware of his or her weaknesses, and so aware of the pain inflicted, that every effort would be made to avoid further contact with the lover as an act of thoughtfulness to the stunned spouse. But instead, the unfaithful spouse argues that the relationship was "only sexual" or was "emotional but not sexual" or some other peculiar description to prove that continued contact with the lover would be okay.

Most victimized spouses intuitively understand that all contact with a lover must end for life. Permanent separation not only helps prevent a renewal of the affair, but it is also a crucial gesture of consideration to someone who has been through ******. What victimized spouse would ever want to know that his or her spouse is seeing or communicating with a former lover at work or in some other activity?

In spite of career sacrifices, friendships, and issues relating to children's schooling, I am adamant in recommending that there be no contact with a former lover for life. For many, that means a move to another state. But to do otherwise fails to recognize the nature of addiction and its cure. "

Melodylane,

Thank you for your response and advice... it really is extremely valuable to me. I just read your post "Have you noticed some people like living like that."... and, although I don't believe I fall into the whining category, I do fall into the category of a new BS not always following the advice of the veterans who have had success.

I do believe the MB principles work at a higher percentage of success than most others... but they are not 100% proven and accurate for all situations. (Here's my "Yes, but...")

Here is how I see some things...

Exposure... my W has stopped contact... I am certain of that now and has for over 2 months. I believe it is too late to expose... it would only be a negative at this point.

Exposure to OMW... still struggling with this one, but I have sent an email to the Ethics professor I mentioned, he said he would be happy to meet with me after he gets back in town next week. I do not disagree, but will not do this until I am at total agreement. This has huge ramifications for far more people than just my W and the OM and his W.

NC... unless I am prepared to make drastic changes like moving to a new province and taking my kids away from their friends and changing my job which I have been at for over 17 years...moved up to the top position in my region. I know what it's like to move around as a kid... my parents were transferred 8 times by the time I was 15... and it can be devastating on kids. It probably built up many of my character issues that I am now dealing with. I realize, without these changes, absolute NC will be impossible. We live within a few blocks of the OM, our friends and family are all tied together... there will be some... limited... contact at different points in our lives. We have limited it by changing our church and refusing to go to group outings with our friends where the OM might be.

NC letter... my idea of this letter is for my W to say the normal "it was a mistake, I am working on rebuilding my family, I love my husband", etc... and then for the NC part, it will say... if we happen to be at the same location, he is not to approach or try and make contact with her.
I am disappointed that she has not yet wrote the letter... although we have been focused on her work problems and finalizing the purchase of the house this week. It will mean, though, that I will not join her and the kids at our old church on Sunday. I do not control her and if she chooses to go, that will be something I will have to decide on how I react. But I made it clear that I would not go if the NC letter was not written. I'm not sure that she fully understands this and it will be an interesting test of boundaries when she realizes I am serious.

Trust... I have offered my trust to my WW in that I am not requiring her to tell me everywhere she goes... she tells me anyway because she wants to. I was checking her emails and phone until recently when I discussed with my MC. I think it is prudent to "snoop" and keep tabs on a WS in order to protect yourself... however, in order to rebuild our M and our love, I believe that by doing this, I am performing an act of betrayal myself. I am not judging any of the advice and actions of anyone on here... I realize the necessity of protecting ourselves and our family... but I choose to risk this short term protection for the longer term gain of my own integrity and trust. I will place my trust in God. When I talked to my W about this and apologized for my actions, I could "feel" that I was doing the right thing by her response. I was getting paranoid because there were "blocked sender" calls on the phone and cell phone... it turned out it was from her sister at her work... just something with the phone system... I confirmed this. She had taken her rings off for a few days again... turns out she had a rash and put them back on without me asking about it. I was paranoid and doing things that I was not proud about... even looking into her Mom's email and computer history to see if she had used that. This all had to stop. I am choosing to trust my W.

Honesty... this is an issue and will be for a while. But I have heard from her that she will talk about the A when she is able to. We need to get past a few of the other things in our life first and I am ok with that.

Do I sound like a naive person who is trying to get through this without listening to the advice of those who have succeeded before me... I'm sure I do.

BUT (isn't that a great word <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />), some of my own boundaries and beliefs is that I need to get through this with my personal integrity and beliefs intact. I need my wife to want to be with me because of who I am and because of the love she has for me... not because I have manipulated the situation to put her in a position that I am her "best choice". Yes, I do understand the affects of addiction. My parents are ministers who spent their career in the social services department of The Salvation Army. I spent much of my youth down at their work at the hostels and addiction rehab departments... I spent my Christmas mornings helping to serve dinner to transients at the hostel. I know what addictions can do to people. But I also know that I am worthy of my W's love, that I am a good H and father. I know that seeing how I have stood by her through this, that if I had to stand up next to the OM again, that she will choose me. I am willing to risk some of the MB steps in order to prove this. I don't want a M if I can only have it by exposing and not trusting. That is part of my own boundaries I am setting for myself.

I may end up losing in the end... but I don't believe so. This website has helped me so much mostly in understanding the pain I am feeling and the pain my WW is feeling. That has been invaluable to me... to know that this is not just healing for me... to understand the fog and how someone can do what she did?

I hope you don't stop posting to me, because I really do appreciate what you have to say... it makes me stop and think and I do believe that I will soon come to the point of exposure to the OMW... thanks to you.

Shaden

Shaden, I have to admit that I find it frightening that anyone would have to consult an "ethics professor" to know right from wrong. I think you already know what is right and don't need to consult anyone. You have common sense and seem quite rational to me, so I have confidence that you can discern right from wrong on your own using facts, evidence, reason and logic. If you can't then you should not be walking about free.

I would also add that no amount of college can compensate for a lack of common sense and morality [and many so-called "ethics" classes focus rather on moral relativism, which is morally and intellectually bankrupt] , and sadly, many professors seem to have the common sense God gave a goose.

I would only point out that until you tell the OMW that your W had an affair with her H, it might be the decent thing to stay away from her. It is cruel to allow her victimizer to parade around in front of your victim when everyone, except her, knows she is the town fool. She will remember that you allowed this cruelty to continue when she does find out.

And lastly, I am not suggesting that you move. But I don't think you have to move to eliminate contact with the OM. There are other churches in town, and events that can be skipped. That is the price you have to pay to ensure that your W does not resume her affair. All the no contact letters in the world will not prevent a resumption of the affair. The risk of resumption of the affair is considerably greater as long as they stay in contact because she cannot withdraw frm the OM.

Staying in contact, like you are doing, reflects a lack of understanding about the nature of an affair. There is no NC letter than can overcome her strong temptation to see the OM when she is continually seeing him.

Continuing contact with the OM is about as smart as sending a newly recovering alcoholic in the bar every day to "test" their resolve. They don't withdraw, and eventually they pick up the booze again in a weak moment when no one is looking. So, staying in contact with the source of your addiction is not a test of strength, it is a test of stupidity, just ask any recovering alcoholic. It demonstates a failure to understand that the addict has no control over the substance and chooses, rather to remove themselves from the game. You are keeping her in the game by continuing contact.


Do you feel that it is a betrayal to catch someone in the act of wrongdoing? Actually, it is SHE who must earn the trust and it is not a betrayal to snoop on her, but a much needed protective measure. You should snoop until you can trust her again. Lying and adultery are "betrayals;" catching someone doing those things is not. Snooping is how you rebuild damaged trust in your marriage. By independently verifying her trustworthiness, she is able to rebuild the trust in your marriage. But trust should never be afforded an untrustworthy person, she has to EARN it. Trusting an untrustworthy person is only asking to be knifed in the back.