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"Take control of your marriage and let her know what you think the best course of action should be."
Meldody, as a woman, how would you advise I do this in a way that is effective, loving, and without LB's?
Shaden
BH (Me) - 38
WW - 36
Married - 16 years
2 children - 10,12
DD1 - 05/30/05 - EA suspected, W wanted space
DD2 - 07/01/05 - EA/PA discovered & confronted WW
DD3 - 07/21/05 - Further contact discovered and now ended.
11/07/05 - exposed to OMW...
07/01/07 - separated to give "space". recovery was not progressing.
09/04/07 - DDAY all over... new OM.
Patience with God is Faith.
Patience with myself is Hope.
Patience with others is Love.
FAITH REQUIRES ACTION!
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I guess my main question is whether or not the subtle "threat" ... "he knows what he stands to lose..." was too much.
Shaden I think it was just perfect. It is important that she know how little she meant to the OM. She does need to know this, Shaden. You cannot protect a grown woman from the truth. She is not a dumb child. As far as asking her if the OMW can contact her friend, why would she get to make that decision? Surely you see she is the least qualified in this whole scenario to give permission. I would suggest telling the OMW that she can contact whomever she wishes in order to receive comfort. Your W has and should have no control over that. The OMW has been victimized enough by your W.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Gotcha... my SIL is also W's cousin. If they were going to be a support to us, it may be difficult if they are also supporting OMW... but that is not my W's decision... it is mine and OMW's. Atleast OM had enough caring to be concerned about the affect it would have on my brother and I... or... he just doesn't want anyone to know. who knows and who cares. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> I do realize that this whole process, when I take away the thought of the betrayal, can be a very good thing for me. I am learning a lot of lessons I needed to learn. When I sit and read some of my posts, it is hard to believe that I am in a position of Executive Director responsible for/to a couple hundred employees and a budget of millions of dollars. Some of the same destructive behavior traits I have allowed to manifest in my marriage has also held me back from being the manager I know I can be. This is one of the best life lessons I will ever receive. Shaden
BH (Me) - 38
WW - 36
Married - 16 years
2 children - 10,12
DD1 - 05/30/05 - EA suspected, W wanted space
DD2 - 07/01/05 - EA/PA discovered & confronted WW
DD3 - 07/21/05 - Further contact discovered and now ended.
11/07/05 - exposed to OMW...
07/01/07 - separated to give "space". recovery was not progressing.
09/04/07 - DDAY all over... new OM.
Patience with God is Faith.
Patience with myself is Hope.
Patience with others is Love.
FAITH REQUIRES ACTION!
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"Take control of your marriage and let her know what you think the best course of action should be."
Meldody, as a woman, how would you advise I do this in a way that is effective, loving, and without LB's?
Shaden First off, I would stop with the inappropriate guilt and back off completely. Let her alone and let her steep in her guilt today. Stop reacting to her every action. Being loving is nice, but sometimes it comes across as wimpy and I think that is what you most need to avoid right now. Being loving also means being firm and direct when it is warranted. IT would be helpful if you were not willing to place yourself at the mercy of her feelings. It would be helpful if she knew this. Do you see what I mean?
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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You were a brave knight, Shaden. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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I do... except for the inappropriate guilt part.
Shaden
BH (Me) - 38
WW - 36
Married - 16 years
2 children - 10,12
DD1 - 05/30/05 - EA suspected, W wanted space
DD2 - 07/01/05 - EA/PA discovered & confronted WW
DD3 - 07/21/05 - Further contact discovered and now ended.
11/07/05 - exposed to OMW...
07/01/07 - separated to give "space". recovery was not progressing.
09/04/07 - DDAY all over... new OM.
Patience with God is Faith.
Patience with myself is Hope.
Patience with others is Love.
FAITH REQUIRES ACTION!
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Am I reading you wrong? Are you saying you do not feel guilty? I hope that is correct.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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p.s. a couple of other thoughts about approaching her. I would set aside a time for a serious heart to heart, tonight preferably. I would suggest two things:
1. be completely open and honest about what you know
2. be completely open and honest about your feelings about what you know
She needs to hear and see your disappointment and disgust and shouldn't be protected from that consequence.
I would ask for her ideas about how she thinks she can repair the damage in your marriage and see what she says.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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No, I don't feel guilty about forcing the exposure... my W has tried to make me feel guilty.
I do feel some fear that this may all be over. But I feel more disgust and loss. I finally get all the posts about WS being an alien. She is not the person right now that I thought I knew.
Shaden
BH (Me) - 38
WW - 36
Married - 16 years
2 children - 10,12
DD1 - 05/30/05 - EA suspected, W wanted space
DD2 - 07/01/05 - EA/PA discovered & confronted WW
DD3 - 07/21/05 - Further contact discovered and now ended.
11/07/05 - exposed to OMW...
07/01/07 - separated to give "space". recovery was not progressing.
09/04/07 - DDAY all over... new OM.
Patience with God is Faith.
Patience with myself is Hope.
Patience with others is Love.
FAITH REQUIRES ACTION!
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I've read on several other threads the idea that a WS has a hard time getting their "lover" out of their head. They are in love with him/her and it never goes away.
If this is true, how is it possible that my W was able to get me out of her head/heart enough to have an A. Wasn't I her "lover" prior to the A. I was the only one she had been with (as far as I know)... we were M'd for 14 years with 2 kids. I never treated her poorly (IMHO) and sacrificed a lot to try and "make" her happy. I do realize the loss of respect, but if a WS has such a hard time falling out of love with OP, why can they so easily fall out of love with S?
Shaden
BH (Me) - 38
WW - 36
Married - 16 years
2 children - 10,12
DD1 - 05/30/05 - EA suspected, W wanted space
DD2 - 07/01/05 - EA/PA discovered & confronted WW
DD3 - 07/21/05 - Further contact discovered and now ended.
11/07/05 - exposed to OMW...
07/01/07 - separated to give "space". recovery was not progressing.
09/04/07 - DDAY all over... new OM.
Patience with God is Faith.
Patience with myself is Hope.
Patience with others is Love.
FAITH REQUIRES ACTION!
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Mr. Wondering... I'm wondering what Mrs. Wondering would have been expecting/wanting to see from you at this stage. What made her come out of the fog? About 10 days after OM broke things off with my WW I emailed her a link to a story on this site. Don't even remember what that story was. She linked in and later that day started posting. She posted this: Hi,
I've been reading a lot about affairs, but I seem only to find things that address the issues or needs of the BS...My husband and I are both currently reading Surviving an Affair, and I do want to save my marriage...However, I just got out of the affair about 10 days ago and I am really having a difficult timing adjusting. I miss the OP and still have feelings of love towards him...etc. Does anyone else have these types of feelings and if so, what do you do to get through them? I keep hurting my H everytime I have these feelings and am honest about them...where do I go from here? I want to have loving feelings about my H, but right now, everything he does just seems needy and unattractive...I'm truly at a loss... One of the responses she got that day included a reference to another thread where recovery took awhile. I do not remember reading it myself but I will give the link ---> SKM Chronicles Then about 5 weeks into recovery my wife broke NC to get "closure". Link to thread ---> Mrs. Wondering breaks No Contact In hindsight it was risky but it really did help her at the time. It was the day she made the choice and decided/accepted that it was all a mistake. Before that she was just so depressed and confused cause OM "dumped" her. I've got to run so I can not finish this post right. Allow me to summarize. NC established mid June. NC broken July 14thish. Mrs. Wondering finally got it completely on a road trip the end of August listening to His Needs/Her Needs on CD together in the car. She read SAA first and started posting here. I was fortunate my wife loves to talk. It sounds like Mrs. Shaden is more of a conflict avoider/introvert. If not get her out and be social. I've really got to run. Check in later. Mr. Wondering
FWW ~ 47 ~ MeFBH ~ 50 ~ MrWonderingDD ~ 17 Dday ~ 2005 ~ Recovered
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Just went back and re-read your original question (which I kinda never got to). I'll think about it and come back later today.
Mr. W
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"I was fortunate my wife loves to talk. It sounds like Mrs. Shaden is more of a conflict avoider/introvert."
Mrs. Shaden loves to talk... just not with me. She can talk on the phone for hours with her sister or Mom. She finds it easy to make new acquaintences... but won't ever let any of them get close. I used to find out what was going on in her life by lying on the couch beside her while she talked to her family. Occassionaly I would interject and she would get mad because she couldn't talk to both of us at once. I had discussed my issues with the amount of time she spend on the phone with them, but figured it was one of the ways I was being "giving" by allowing her time with her family. I guessed that if we were not talking, she could have her needs met with her Mom or Sister. I now know how ridiculous and stupid this was. Did I mention that we married fairly young and I never really had any girlfriends to speak of before her... yes I was very naive.
I was never a good talker for casual chit chat... gave the answer "fine" or "pretty good" to how was your day. But if you get me talking about a "subject" or debate of an issue, I will talk for hours. In our first session with MC, she turned to my W and said that obviously I don't have a problem with communication... I was sharing what I felt right off the bat.
But, for so many years my W just "complained" about work and life, that I guess I tuned her out. She "never" probed about my life... would accept "ok" and rarely asked any more. I realize this is a big issue with our M and I have been working on it.
I've read some books on communication and have attempted at most conversations to really be present and listen... although lately I've been fighting the temptation to become defensive again.
However, both my W and I have been conflict avoiders. She does not have a problem getting mad at me and will often speak her mind... but she avoids getting into serious conversation... we both would back down at the sign of trouble. One of the main reasons I finally pushed for the exposure, besides that it was the right thing to do, was simply to put into practice dealing with conflict.
Shaden
BH (Me) - 38
WW - 36
Married - 16 years
2 children - 10,12
DD1 - 05/30/05 - EA suspected, W wanted space
DD2 - 07/01/05 - EA/PA discovered & confronted WW
DD3 - 07/21/05 - Further contact discovered and now ended.
11/07/05 - exposed to OMW...
07/01/07 - separated to give "space". recovery was not progressing.
09/04/07 - DDAY all over... new OM.
Patience with God is Faith.
Patience with myself is Hope.
Patience with others is Love.
FAITH REQUIRES ACTION!
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Posts: 928
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Continued from last post...
I realize that my lack of conversation with My W was a major lack of fulfilling her needs. I am prepared to learn.
Shaden
BH (Me) - 38
WW - 36
Married - 16 years
2 children - 10,12
DD1 - 05/30/05 - EA suspected, W wanted space
DD2 - 07/01/05 - EA/PA discovered & confronted WW
DD3 - 07/21/05 - Further contact discovered and now ended.
11/07/05 - exposed to OMW...
07/01/07 - separated to give "space". recovery was not progressing.
09/04/07 - DDAY all over... new OM.
Patience with God is Faith.
Patience with myself is Hope.
Patience with others is Love.
FAITH REQUIRES ACTION!
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Mr. Wondering... I'm wondering what Mrs. Wondering would have been expecting/wanting to see from you at this stage. What made her come out of the fog? I have to believe with the events that took place yesterday you are at the preacipe of beginning a real recovery. I have hope and you should too. I think you were holding on to some of your own fogged out illusions that her affair had more to do with OM's aggression rather than your wife's poor, hurtful, and deliberate betrayal. Your despair results from the realization your wife is no better than any of the WS's around her. However, you can not let the demons in YOUR lives harbor anger and insecurity. You can slay the demons with love and acceptance. Withdrawal takes time. They say the more intelligent and secure the WS was previous to the affair the longer it takes because they are more likely to believe and hold on to their entitlement feelings. They have more diffuculty doubting and relinquishing their fogged out conclusions about you and your marriage. Your wife definitely sounded strong willed so you've got a fighter on the line so to speak. This is really still a Plan A period. Keep your taker at bay and continue to avoid the love busters. She'll come around. This was a question I answered for a poster off-line: What suggestions do you have in order to speed this up? My answer (Modified to you Shaden): Dr. Harley recommends 15 hours a week of ALONE time for married couples and 25 hours a week for recovering marriage partners. Make plans to spend the time without the kids. Date your wife again. Probe into her deeper self. Develope and be open to "mature" intimacy. This is a start of a new marriage. Continue to demonstrate your changes and bettering yourself. You're on the right track reading up about communication and conflict avoidance. I would surmise your goal is to having a loving and fulfilling relationship. The first step to achieving this is being a loving husband yourself and wait for her to come around. It is unfair...like I've said before...we all wish the WW would jump back into our arms begging for forgiveness but unfortunately that rarely happens. Set a date of say 6 months or a year of committing to this marital recovery. Work on yourself. If your wife refuses to come along then "leap your partner" and start living the life you dreamed of. Now that is attractive. She will follow you eventually, or not. You can then determine where you want your life to take you at that point in time. IMO, decisions like ending a long term marital relationship with kids involved should never be made in the midst of a crisis. You must see how compatible you and your wife can become. In God's eyes...she was the perfect choice for you and He knows better than us.
Also, did you complete the emotional needs questionaire and love buster worksheets available on this site? If you do not have His Needs/Her Needs get it on CD and listen to it together on your next trip. Your wife can email my wife at the address below or arrange a time to talk. Mrs. Wondering is quite the tallker and can relay her sage advice more effectively in conversation. Would your wife consider posting??? There are many other WW's around that can relate to the exact feelings she is going through.
Keep your head up. If you can completely reconcile your marriage you will know that this will never happen again and she will have a deeper love and understanding for you specifically because you stood by her through this difficult time. It is worth it. Some WS's just take longer than others to "get it". Just do not allow this thing to be swept under the rug. Keep trying. Keep listening and asking questions. My last attempt at conveying wisdom...this is your wife...when you married her she became a part of you...her struggle is your struggle and vice versa...invite her in to assist you with your mental anguish as you understand/accept and assist her with hers...take yourself to acceptance first and let forgiveness wait...you do not have to forgive until you get a true apology (not a fogged out one - you'll know when she "gets it")...this is no longer a juvenile relationship with time for petty insecurities...forget about OM, he is done with, over...neither you nor your wife can change the past...you are her husband now...lead your marriage into recovery...it will be worth it...read Mortarman's thread about the roles of husbands (link to it from his signature line). YOUR MANTRA ---> Live today, don't worry about yesterday and let tomorrow take care of itself...you will make it, with or without your wife...you will make it. Good Luck, Mr. Wondering
FBH(me)-51 FWW-49 (MrsWondering)
DD19 DS 22 Dday-2005-Recovered
"agree to disagree" = Used when one wants to reject the objective reality of the situation and hopefully replace it with their own.
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I continued the exposure today and told my brother and SIL. OMW is also going to talk to my SIL. I emailed W that this was a possibility, but she does not know yet. I expect the fireworks to get brighter... anyone interested in a front row seat <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
This seems weird as there has been NC for close to 4 months but I believe my W is still in a fog as she will not discuss A.
I hated doing this, but I also hate the fact she had an A.
I look at my two young sons and my heart aches for all the pain and trials they are probably going to face as they get older.
Shaden
BH (Me) - 38
WW - 36
Married - 16 years
2 children - 10,12
DD1 - 05/30/05 - EA suspected, W wanted space
DD2 - 07/01/05 - EA/PA discovered & confronted WW
DD3 - 07/21/05 - Further contact discovered and now ended.
11/07/05 - exposed to OMW...
07/01/07 - separated to give "space". recovery was not progressing.
09/04/07 - DDAY all over... new OM.
Patience with God is Faith.
Patience with myself is Hope.
Patience with others is Love.
FAITH REQUIRES ACTION!
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Seems like you are getting great advice from Mr. W.
Are the two of you spending 15 hours a week doing fun things together?
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Right now I am lucky if I see my W 15 hours per week... I think the last couple of days was 15 hours of her yelling at me for ruining her life because I exposed.
BH (Me) - 38
WW - 36
Married - 16 years
2 children - 10,12
DD1 - 05/30/05 - EA suspected, W wanted space
DD2 - 07/01/05 - EA/PA discovered & confronted WW
DD3 - 07/21/05 - Further contact discovered and now ended.
11/07/05 - exposed to OMW...
07/01/07 - separated to give "space". recovery was not progressing.
09/04/07 - DDAY all over... new OM.
Patience with God is Faith.
Patience with myself is Hope.
Patience with others is Love.
FAITH REQUIRES ACTION!
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Posts: 92,985 Likes: 1
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How are you faring, Shaden?
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Hi Melody, I'm doing ok... since you never sleep, I expect a reply back right away <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Actually, you predicted it perfectly. My W came and sat beside me after we put the boys in bed and asked about my meeting with OMW. I said are you sure you want to hear it? I was able to tell her what OM had said to OMW and I think a huge patch of fog lifted. She is still very depressed and upset, but it's a bit different. I am going back up now to lie with her... just came down to put the dogs in their kennels. But we have been up for about 4 hours talking or sitting in silence. Thanks again for your advice and support. Shaden
BH (Me) - 38
WW - 36
Married - 16 years
2 children - 10,12
DD1 - 05/30/05 - EA suspected, W wanted space
DD2 - 07/01/05 - EA/PA discovered & confronted WW
DD3 - 07/21/05 - Further contact discovered and now ended.
11/07/05 - exposed to OMW...
07/01/07 - separated to give "space". recovery was not progressing.
09/04/07 - DDAY all over... new OM.
Patience with God is Faith.
Patience with myself is Hope.
Patience with others is Love.
FAITH REQUIRES ACTION!
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