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My W is at home alone today and very depressed.
I think I now understand when she was telling me she was trying hard... the fact that she had kept NC and still with me was the hardest she could do at the time... because she was still in love with OM.
Last night's conversation helped her see what OM was really like. She said he lied to his wife about what happened... that she didn't initiate, he was calling her at work... and a lot of the other points as well. Of course, this could be her spin of the story for me, but whatever the case, some of the fog has now been lifted. Now I guess I just wait and be there for her.
When we were talking about our past, I made the comment... "but I was never your knight in shining armour that you were expecting" and she said..."but you are here saving me now".
I don't expect it to suddenly be great yet, but this was a big step.
Thanks to all of you who encouraged me and "pushed" me to finally do this.
Shaden
BH (Me) - 38 WW - 36 Married - 16 years 2 children - 10,12 DD1 - 05/30/05 - EA suspected, W wanted space DD2 - 07/01/05 - EA/PA discovered & confronted WW DD3 - 07/21/05 - Further contact discovered and now ended. 11/07/05 - exposed to OMW... 07/01/07 - separated to give "space". recovery was not progressing. 09/04/07 - DDAY all over... new OM.
Patience with God is Faith. Patience with myself is Hope. Patience with others is Love. FAITH REQUIRES ACTION!
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When we were talking about our past, I made the comment... "but I was never your knight in shining armour that you were expecting" and she said..."but you are here saving me now". I think that is lovely. I said something similar to my h just yesterday. You betrayed h's are something else...you are showing your strength Shaden. Hang in there!!! Take care, Brandi
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Shaden, this has to be a huge wake up call for her to be facing the ugle reality of her affair; she can't pretend anymore. You have made it impossible for her to harbor any fantasies about the affair. I think you did an EXCELLENT JOB in presenting the facts to her, because you did it in a way that did not make her defensive.That is a very fine line to walk and you must have done a superb job.
Now, you have such excellent opportunities to move in and pick up the pieces. And it sounds like she will let you!
Not only that, but I bet she has enormous respect for you now because you acted like a BRAVE KNIGHT by standing up and slaying the affair. You did really good. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
p.s. that MIL of yours......................grrrrrrrrrr
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Thanks Brandi and Melody.
As to my MIL... apparently my W asked her to call. I suppose she was protecting her daughter... I am concerned about their relationship because of her MIL's past... but my W assures me that MIL does not condone the A and has repeatedly throughout the last few months questioned and made sure that my W was not seeing or contacting OM.
I don't understand the motive behind her calling OM... but I do understand a couple of things...
1) In the end it made the process better... I would not have had the info from OM to give to my W if they had not talked first... maybe this is God intervening???
2) Just like I felt I was doing the right thing by telling OMW... and my W must have seen it as betraying her and hurting her... she also felt she was doing the "right" thing, because she had promised OM when they split up that she would tell him if either she or I was going to tell his W. I don't like it... and it shows me the fog that was there, but I can understand it. She did keep NC and that is important.
3)Mother's will always protect their kids first... but sometimes protection is doing the hard things. With this sich, I don't think my MIL understands the addiction of the A... she had her own and married OM and was happier because of it... so she doesn't get what the fog is about. She probably truly thought she was helping her daughter. I have left her a message... I want her to understand why I did what I did and for her to hear how it is helping. I don't know if she realizes the fog her daughter was still in. Unfortunately, unlike OM, I can't battle for my W to leave MIL... I have to try and sort this out as there R is very important to my W. She thinks I now hate her Mom. I don't know how I feel... but it's not my focus.
Shaden
BH (Me) - 38 WW - 36 Married - 16 years 2 children - 10,12 DD1 - 05/30/05 - EA suspected, W wanted space DD2 - 07/01/05 - EA/PA discovered & confronted WW DD3 - 07/21/05 - Further contact discovered and now ended. 11/07/05 - exposed to OMW... 07/01/07 - separated to give "space". recovery was not progressing. 09/04/07 - DDAY all over... new OM.
Patience with God is Faith. Patience with myself is Hope. Patience with others is Love. FAITH REQUIRES ACTION!
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I am very disappointed in your MIL for betraying you and betraying her D. What she did was attempt to aide and abet the secrecy of the affair by forewarning the OM. That has nothing to do with "protecting" her D, but in helping her daughter's affair partner.
That really makes me sick and is not the appropriate behavior of a parent. She owes you an apology for showing you such disrespect. Shame on her.
Fortunately, it all came out good, but that is in spite of your sneaky MIL and not because of her.
As far as your W asking her to warn the OM because she felt you were trying to "hurt her," I don't believe that bullcrap for a second. She was only concerned about protecting herself and did not care a whit about the OMW or her children. That is evidenced by her sleazy behavior with the OM.
I hope you have a serious 'come to Jesus' with your stupid-in-law about her flagrant disrespect.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Melody...
just to clarify, I don't agree with or like what MIL and my W did by calling OM... it spoke volumes to me about who was more important. But, I am just putting myself in their shoes for a minute. If I was there and my spouse was going to blow open my secret, and I didn't get it that it would help me (who does), then I would feel that my spouse is trying to hurt me. Because of the hurt she put on me, I believe she expects me to want to hurt her back. And I must admit, that at times during this process, especially at the beginning, I did want to hurt her back... the thoughts would never last long, and I don't have them any more... but the revenge thoughts did come. I believe she expects it and sees that me telling OMW was my own personal agenda... not trying to help her.
Maybe she'll see it in the future.
As for my MIL... I do believe she thought she was doing the right thing... and that is what scares me... she has no clue as to what is right or wrong when it comes to relationships with men. Her track record speaks volumes... both of her A's that I know of were with married ministers... and a third EA that I suspect was also with a minister. Since the death of her husband, she also started dating another minister (atleast this one was single). I think she sees them as having some kind of power and that's appealing to her... I don't know. But her needs are very strange and warped. She is not an evil person... she will do anything for her grandkids and daughters... give them her last dime and starve herself... whatever... but she has no clue when it comes to love relationships.
I am not excusing her behaviour... just trying to understand it because I know this is a battle I cannot win right now. I have to concentrate on my W and I and try and leave MIL out of the picture. Atleast she no longer lives in our house and she is trying to stay far away from me right now.
Shaden
BH (Me) - 38 WW - 36 Married - 16 years 2 children - 10,12 DD1 - 05/30/05 - EA suspected, W wanted space DD2 - 07/01/05 - EA/PA discovered & confronted WW DD3 - 07/21/05 - Further contact discovered and now ended. 11/07/05 - exposed to OMW... 07/01/07 - separated to give "space". recovery was not progressing. 09/04/07 - DDAY all over... new OM.
Patience with God is Faith. Patience with myself is Hope. Patience with others is Love. FAITH REQUIRES ACTION!
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I like that you appear to be placing the MIL issue behind you. She hopefully will admit she made a mistake and apologize to you. It may be interesting to hear her side of the story. I think it is better for OM and OMW that OM fessed up. He may have spun the story but it's his marriage at stake and how much truth he offers his wife will eventually help or hinder their recovery...which you are unconcerned with now. When we were talking about our past, I made the comment... "but I was never your knight in shining armour that you were expecting" and she said..."but you are here saving me now". This is awesome! She is coming around to seeing you in a better light. You said you got married young...perhaps now she is finally being attracted back to the marriage with the MAN you have become. You guys got married at 23/20 years of age. The persons you are today does not reflect those almost children that got married so long ago. With this wake up call, you now realize the day to day problems your wife was communicating are your day to day problems as well...no longer to be ignored as a "woman" thing. You are maturing and your relationship has the opportunity to mature as well. LEAD your wife into recovery. Tell her that is where you are going and she is free to follow. Tell her you are not leaving her or divorcing her, but it is time to get on with the rest of your lives together. Tell her although she may feel "stuck" with you right now...that you are accepting of that and just want the "chance" to lead both of you to a happy marriage. When she says or feels you have ruined her life...instead of letting that torment you...reverse babble and say "yes, honey...but what is it you want out of life? Inform her calmly again that she no longer needs to PROTECT you from the affair details...that the affair is behind you guys now and that you need the facts eventually because it is much harder on you to have to fill in the details with your imagination than to actually know the truth. Ask pointed questions and then really listen to the answers... like...What do you want or expect of me as your husband?...What kind of wife do you want to be?...What do you think you (or I) can do to make this marriage better? You may likely get fogged out answers and that is OK. As the fog clears and her love bank accumulates SHE HERSELF will begin to ascertain the magnitude of her betrayal. You can not teach this...it must be her conclusion. Finally, be mindful of your interaction with woman. In recovery you are likely to develope your own sense of entitlement for a revenge affair should the opportunity present itself. Especially 8-10 months into recovery. I know you believe you would never do it but when you suppress your TAKER for so long your humanity may present itself. Do not discuss your marital problems and recovery with any woman. Begin to teach your wife about radical honesty when you feel yourself ever wanting to allow another woman, not your wife, to meet your emotional needs. For example, at work the receptionist congratulates you for a job well done, compliments your appearance since you no doubt lost 30lbs on the "betrayed diet" or compliments some other accomplishment. It's somewhat flattering to you and an ego stroke but you know now to walk away and not linger. Now you go home and tell your wife how you were aware of the danger, tell her how your thought processes have change and how it is now ONLY important to you to receive accolades and compliments for HER. Developing intimacy has been described to me on this very site as imagining your life as a house. As a husband you may have kept many of the rooms of that home a secret from your wife. Either you thought she would not be interested or you felt they were yours and yours alone. Intimacy is attained when your wife is inviting into every room of that house to look around. Including and especially that little sexual thoughts room every male has learned to keep to himself since he was a 13 year old boy locked in the bathroom. She is also invited back to any room whenever she wants for whatever reason. You become an open book. I wish you well, Mr. Wondering
FBH(me)-51 FWW-49 (MrsWondering) DD19 DS 22 Dday-2005-Recovered
"agree to disagree" = Used when one wants to reject the objective reality of the situation and hopefully replace it with their own.
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Things did go better yesterday, but I had another little storm this morning.
I left her to go to work but was very concerned about her. She spoke last night about needing to admit herself to a hospital for her depression, that she couldn't cope.
I didn't want her to be alone.
I called her older sister, who has spent a lot of time with her recently, who knows we are going through trouble, but does not know about the A.
My W told me last night that she almost told her yesterday but could not.
I told her sister that my W needed her today... when she asked me why, I said she was very depressed and shouldn't be alone. Of course, she pressed this and I said I couldn't tell her anymore, my W would have to tell her... that she almost spoke to her about it yesterday but didn't... maybe she will speak to her today.
Of course, her sister got on the phone with their Mom and my W's twin sister wanting to know what was going on... my W was furious. I was supposed to go back home and we were going to pick up the kids from school for lunch. She told me not to come home. I left a message if she meant "not to come home, ever" and said that I don't know how much more I can take... my intentions were to try and help her... that she doesn't realize what she is going to lose.
She did call me back and we talked... I explained that I had no intention of telling her Sister... she can do that, but I had every intention of ensuring that she was safe. It seemed better when the conversation ended... I think she understood...but the damage was done... her Mom and sisters once again see me as the bad one and will probably be able to influence my W in her thoughts.
My BIL emailed me (W's twin sisters husband)... we have barely talked in months... he said he heard about everything that everyone seems to be acting so irrationally and is there anything that can be done to help diffuse the situation.
I called him and explained that my decision to force exposure was not irrational... that I had a lot of advice and it was planned. I explained about my W's fog and that she was still in love with OM. I explained what happened last night and how I believe it was the right decision for our future. Hopefully he will be able to get this message to his W. But, more than likely, I will take further heat just because I talked to him.
What a crazy, immature, stupid game this all is. Maybe I could make millions if I made a board game about A's.... sorry, unflavorable attempt at humour.
Thanks, Mr. Wondering... if I get another chance alone with my W... without interference from her family, maybe I will be able to use some of the wisdom you have left me.
Shaden
BH (Me) - 38 WW - 36 Married - 16 years 2 children - 10,12 DD1 - 05/30/05 - EA suspected, W wanted space DD2 - 07/01/05 - EA/PA discovered & confronted WW DD3 - 07/21/05 - Further contact discovered and now ended. 11/07/05 - exposed to OMW... 07/01/07 - separated to give "space". recovery was not progressing. 09/04/07 - DDAY all over... new OM.
Patience with God is Faith. Patience with myself is Hope. Patience with others is Love. FAITH REQUIRES ACTION!
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OM just called me to thank me for forcing the exposure to his W. He knew he needed to but couldn't on his own strength.
He asked if there was anything he could do to help my W and I... I just said he already did everything he possibly could to us. I told him to work on his own M... wished him luck, and that I would have to worry about my own M.
One thought... it would be breaking NC, but would it help if he wrote her a letter with his "true" feelings to help break up the fog even more... as long as I proofread it ahead of time... if he was to say himself to her some of the things he said to his W. Or is this a very bad idea?
Shaden
BH (Me) - 38 WW - 36 Married - 16 years 2 children - 10,12 DD1 - 05/30/05 - EA suspected, W wanted space DD2 - 07/01/05 - EA/PA discovered & confronted WW DD3 - 07/21/05 - Further contact discovered and now ended. 11/07/05 - exposed to OMW... 07/01/07 - separated to give "space". recovery was not progressing. 09/04/07 - DDAY all over... new OM.
Patience with God is Faith. Patience with myself is Hope. Patience with others is Love. FAITH REQUIRES ACTION!
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You know, I wonder if that wouldn't compound the humilation she feels right now? It seems like she does get the message that he is not interested, right? Do you think she has any illusions about that? I think you are ready for full repair mode personally and should just let things settle.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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You are right... although I still don't know if things are going to progress. She is at her Mom's apartment right now and is in a "bad state".
Her sister found out the truth today and is angry. She thinks I should just do the "manly" thing and leave. That my W obviously doesn't want the M, and that I am pressuring her too much.
I just spoke to MIL. Too long to tell here... but she is of course just concerned about her daughters health. Depression runs in their family... I don't know if this is a real problem or a crutch. Her Mom believes that she should not have to answer any of my questions because that is how she got through it... of course she divorced. I told her that every other source tells me differently... that it is for both my W and I to heal. I don't need to know anything else today or this week... I just need to know that progress will be made in the future... and that wasn't happening up til now.
Maybe I should leave for a while... the old absence makes the heart grow fonder thing... I could start with a business trip, I guess.
BH (Me) - 38 WW - 36 Married - 16 years 2 children - 10,12 DD1 - 05/30/05 - EA suspected, W wanted space DD2 - 07/01/05 - EA/PA discovered & confronted WW DD3 - 07/21/05 - Further contact discovered and now ended. 11/07/05 - exposed to OMW... 07/01/07 - separated to give "space". recovery was not progressing. 09/04/07 - DDAY all over... new OM.
Patience with God is Faith. Patience with myself is Hope. Patience with others is Love. FAITH REQUIRES ACTION!
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Sorry that letter we wrote came back to hit you in the a$$.
It is my hope she is finally hitting rock bottom from where recovery can perhaps begin. Obviously, I was a little optimistic about her jumping into recovery. If you do speak with her remind her of her words last night and comfort her that she can lean on you. You understand.
As Melody said, let things calm down and I hope she gets through this crisis O.K..
Mr. Wondering
P.S.- Don't argue with her family...they are just as likely to spout Fog babble to you right now. Reverse babble back. They obviously do not understand and you won't be able to teach them. Just tend to agree with them and let things settle down.
FBH(me)-51 FWW-49 (MrsWondering) DD19 DS 22 Dday-2005-Recovered
"agree to disagree" = Used when one wants to reject the objective reality of the situation and hopefully replace it with their own.
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It is too late, now.
My W said she needs space and can't cope anymore. I am getting some things and leaving the house. I know this is a mistake, but I don't know what other option there is.
Shaden
BH (Me) - 38 WW - 36 Married - 16 years 2 children - 10,12 DD1 - 05/30/05 - EA suspected, W wanted space DD2 - 07/01/05 - EA/PA discovered & confronted WW DD3 - 07/21/05 - Further contact discovered and now ended. 11/07/05 - exposed to OMW... 07/01/07 - separated to give "space". recovery was not progressing. 09/04/07 - DDAY all over... new OM.
Patience with God is Faith. Patience with myself is Hope. Patience with others is Love. FAITH REQUIRES ACTION!
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Can you take the boys with you?????
FBH(me)-51 FWW-49 (MrsWondering) DD19 DS 22 Dday-2005-Recovered
"agree to disagree" = Used when one wants to reject the objective reality of the situation and hopefully replace it with their own.
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Actually, call it a business trip. Be very careful not to have your leaving painted as "abandonment" by some crafty divorce attorney. Protect your backside.
If you do go on a business trip try to spend the time focusing on yourself and what you want out of life and marriage. I am sure you need a break obsessing about your wife.
Mr. Wondering
FBH(me)-51 FWW-49 (MrsWondering) DD19 DS 22 Dday-2005-Recovered
"agree to disagree" = Used when one wants to reject the objective reality of the situation and hopefully replace it with their own.
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so if I've left the house to give her space, does this mean I'm in a plan B.
I felt I needed to leave because if I didn't it would show to her and her family that I was not willing to meet her needs... strange idea of needs.
They are not in contact... the exposure has been made to everyone that needs to.
I am not concerned about future contact. My wife says she loves me and I love her... but she needs the space from me to sort herself out. I guess I need some space to decide if I even want to go back.
But should this be plan B with no contact between us until she decides she is going to work on the M? or is this something else?
Any thoughts?
Shaden
BH (Me) - 38 WW - 36 Married - 16 years 2 children - 10,12 DD1 - 05/30/05 - EA suspected, W wanted space DD2 - 07/01/05 - EA/PA discovered & confronted WW DD3 - 07/21/05 - Further contact discovered and now ended. 11/07/05 - exposed to OMW... 07/01/07 - separated to give "space". recovery was not progressing. 09/04/07 - DDAY all over... new OM.
Patience with God is Faith. Patience with myself is Hope. Patience with others is Love. FAITH REQUIRES ACTION!
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hang in there Shaden. Wish I had something more than prayers to offer you to help. But do think about what Mr. W said about abandonment and divorce lawyers. Maybe just a night apart and time to think will help? Make sure she can reach you, who knows, maybe after some "space out" time she'll call .... Trying to be optomistic for ya. Be well,
Harmonie
BS Me - 43
EX/WH - 35 b-day 8/22
D day 8/21/05
Separated 4/2/07
DS #1-16 mine
DD #1-15 mine
DD #2-9 ours
DS #2-6 ours
Married 12 yrs
together 13 1/2
"Hang on and keep your belt tight and hands in the the car at all times, this is a bumpy ride."
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I sent an email to my W just now... the boys are off school on Friday and Monday, so I want to take them with me on a "business trip"... I can work in the hotel and quick visits to the stores that I'm responsible for, and they can spend their time in the pool. I also said she is welcome to come as well... but probably the time apart is better.
I don't know what my rights are... can I just say they are coming with me???
Shaden
BH (Me) - 38 WW - 36 Married - 16 years 2 children - 10,12 DD1 - 05/30/05 - EA suspected, W wanted space DD2 - 07/01/05 - EA/PA discovered & confronted WW DD3 - 07/21/05 - Further contact discovered and now ended. 11/07/05 - exposed to OMW... 07/01/07 - separated to give "space". recovery was not progressing. 09/04/07 - DDAY all over... new OM.
Patience with God is Faith. Patience with myself is Hope. Patience with others is Love. FAITH REQUIRES ACTION!
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Of course you can take them with you. You and your wife have no legal separation or "custody" agreements. You are both equal parents. However, She may "freak out" and feel like your gonna steal them, or have visions of you fighting her for custody if you guys do divorce. Tell her that you want to give her the space and time she needs to think and deal with her emotions in peace, with out the boys distracting her. That may ease any fears she or MIL may come up with and you will be the caring knight in shining armour that she needs to see in you right now.
Harmonie
BS Me - 43
EX/WH - 35 b-day 8/22
D day 8/21/05
Separated 4/2/07
DS #1-16 mine
DD #1-15 mine
DD #2-9 ours
DS #2-6 ours
Married 12 yrs
together 13 1/2
"Hang on and keep your belt tight and hands in the the car at all times, this is a bumpy ride."
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My W is just getting all the wrong advice from her family.
Her sister and Mom both question on whether I'll ever be able to get past what she did... so therefore, their daughter/sister will live a miserable life if she stays with me???
Her Mom left and divorced... she says she wants us to stay together, but she isn't going to give any tough love to her daughter.
My W keeps talking about depression... I asked my parents about that... they asked if she is still looking after herself. Now she did look "rough" today from a lack of sleep... but she continues to take her daily 1 hour baths and spend another hour on her hair and makeup. They say that someone in deep depression wouldn't be concerned about this kind of thing. So is she just using that to not have to fact reality? Her family have suffered from depression, so they are all over that one... and will help her to use it.
My MIL questioned me about why i need to know any details of the A. She said she never asked and never told... well she got divorced and had more than one A. I want recovery. My W now has advice from both our MC and her Mom that she doesn't have to tell me anything... that it is her right not to.
Her sister is going through her own M problems so she is angry and biased... she has always thought highly of me... the only one in her family who I always was comfortable around... but blood is thicker.
But there is nothing I can do about her family being there.
They are concerned for her only... and will not do any tough love as long as she is so depressed. Noone is telling her what she needs to do... and if I say anything, I am controlling and pushing... even if I am talking about my needs... because right now, they don't count... and they haven't counted for a very long time. (I seem to think more clearly when I'm angry... why is that?)
Shaden
BH (Me) - 38 WW - 36 Married - 16 years 2 children - 10,12 DD1 - 05/30/05 - EA suspected, W wanted space DD2 - 07/01/05 - EA/PA discovered & confronted WW DD3 - 07/21/05 - Further contact discovered and now ended. 11/07/05 - exposed to OMW... 07/01/07 - separated to give "space". recovery was not progressing. 09/04/07 - DDAY all over... new OM.
Patience with God is Faith. Patience with myself is Hope. Patience with others is Love. FAITH REQUIRES ACTION!
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