Hello,
I originally posted 'Just found out WW in A----involuntary separation (looong post)' in the General Questions II forum, but a fresh (and shorter) post seems like a good idea.

General situation: Married for almost 3 years, I began to fail to meet all EN of W for about a year. W became lonely and unhappy, and I didn't notice thinking everything was fine. Did notice something was happening when affair began and started to change at that point, but didn't have confirmation of affair until 2 1/2 months later (1 week ago).
Now wife is staying in home country with family for 6-9 months (separate reason) with only contact with me and OM being telephone and internet. She has expressed desire to attempt relationship with OM, but also at times possibility of working things out in M. Kind of trial separation (due to physical separation), while she tries 'to get her thoughts in order'.

Now, I'm working on Plan A, being there, listening, supporting, etc. I read some files about dealing and resolving A's and I saw some things that made me wonder. Essentially they were good and bad things to do when trying to win back your spouse. The good things make sense, definitely, but some of the 'don'ts' gave me pause.

-Don't say 'I love you'
It says that this makes you seem like you are either weak (I just NEED you) or that you are trying to manipulate the others feelings. That it essential causes confusion in the other and causes them to pull away. Or it may give them assurance that they have 2 people fighting over them

*I can see some merit in this, as far as not seeming co-dependent or clingy/needy/without self-confidence, but never saying 'I love you' seems a bit extreme/counter productive. If my error was not being affectionate or 'there' enough, then changing this and showing that I can give her that attention would be a good thing I think. What I have been doing so far is send romantic emails saying how special she is and what she means to me, how I enjoy her company and all she brings. Also about how I feel about her and what I would do for her... When we spoke about our situation I did tell her flat out that it was a decision that she had to make, but I couldn't just let her slip out of my life so easily and that I thought that we could move past this issue. For that I have continued to say 'I love you' when appropriate (end of a conversation) or state that I miss her.

-Don't tell the other that 'you've changed'
Going to give the impression that you are only changing to get them to come back. That the moment things are good again, you will return to the previous behavior.

*I suppose this one is mostly accurate, since changes are most effective when seen, rather than mentioned. Though I also think there is some merit in stating that you've seen where you've made mistakes or have deficiencies and are taking steps to remedy them (especially if you've seen these failings and begun to change before your W even mentioned them).

Well those are the 2 that stood out the most to me. I guess I'm just wondering if I'm making a mistake in continuing to make expressions of affection/love to the WW while in Plan A, or if I should keep it to a close-friend-type of relationship?

Nobody9

As long as she is receptive to it then OK. But going overboard with the sappy/needy over-the-top expressions of love which is normally out of your character may seem desperate, insincere and perhaps ridiculed as to little to late. Some WW think you are merely illiciting guilt making conversation/discussion with you painful for them. In your long distance situation you want as much opportunity to meet her needs over the phone/internet as possible. Try to read her responses to determine an appropriate level to demonstrate (you still need to demonstrate you've changed, your fighting for the marriage, your meeting other emotional needs).

I suggest you read the Pepperband post about the carrot and the stick of Plan A. My wife, Mrs. Wondering, just posted about a copy of it an hour ago on the Jean thread.

Sidenote - You do have a somewhat unique circumstance as your WW is out of the country and maybe you have the opportunity to compete on a somewhat level playing field with OM (he can't touch her either). If you're a stronger communicator you might be able to beat him.

One reason to abstain from the sappy I love you stuff (IMO, ILY's at appropriate times is certainly OK), is that it is tough to compete with OM at this time. She thinks he is her soulmate, not you. If the strong part of your marriage was conversation (and that was a strong emotional need of hers) then the loving friend thing is where your strength lays. Never refer to yourself as "her friend". You are her husband first and you don't discuss the affair with her as her friend. You don't want to make turning your marriage into a "friendship" seem easy or something you ever desire. You only do marriage. Attorney's do divorce. My point is you use your marital friendship communication skills to try to understand and know your wife at a deeper level than previously obtained. My theory was if I was going to lose my wife at least I was going to try to get to know her more intimately than I ever had before. I was going to open up my heart also and attempt to reveal more intimate things about who I was and how I felt. Not mushy-like. Merely deep conversation.

I wish you well Nobody9. You seem to be absorbing everyting and figuring out "your plan". I strongly recommend the MB plan.

Good luck, Mr. Wondering

Thanks again for the input, The Wonderings,
I don't think that what I've been doing is necessarily over the top, as we'd always been quite affectionate with eachother. There were always moments when I would say that she's beautiful or that I love her.
At the moment my statements are met with nothing more than a 'I know' if anything at all, but on the other hand her responses to a couple of my emails have been 'Thank you for worry about me' regarding things to send down to her, and 'I hope you are doing well. Thank you for the things you say to me, they are lovely/pretty.' in response to a mostly romantic letter telling her how I felt about her and that she was a special person, etc.

I do feel that the lack of conversation was an issue she had with me, and I am trying to increase that as much as possible. I keep reminding her (subtly I hope) that if she needs anything or someone to talk to that I'll be there. There are times when she is in a sharing mood and will tell me about what's going on, during which I just try to be as supportive as possible...and there are others when she just clams up and all I get is 'I'm fine, everythings fine, don't worry.'
It's kind of frustrating since that's kind of what made things hard to begin with. I'd see that something was bothering her (sometimes it was something I was doing, other times something else) and all she would say was that she had a headache or simply couldn't sleep well...don't worry. >:(
At that point I just try to fill the void and talk about happenings on my side 'Our friend so-and-so is moving...Yeah I'm just trying to clear out some of the things that I don't need anymore, old magazines, stuff like that...I might sell some of the collectibles that I have since I don't think they are that important anymore..' This last one set her off for some reason. Any even oblique reference to me making changes in my life that may have been influenced by what's happening earns a response like, 'What's the point in worrying about things that have already happened?!' Not sure if she's saying that there's no point in changing since it's too late or what. I usually get flustered at that point and say something like, 'No it's not that I'm just looking at things and seeing that some things don't matter as much anymore...' Then she simply says that it's my choice and I can do whatever I want (I'm getting so tired of hearing that). Probably I should just try to avoid the topic altogether...

I'm trying to not accept the whole separated and friends thing, but it's a bit difficult to do since I kind of stuck my foot in it from the beginning. I hadn't read any MB material, so when I first found out about the A, knowing about our physical separation I said that it would be just that for purposes of deciding where we would go (OOPS!)...Later on when I discovered more details I told her that I was having trouble accepting a 6 month wait period and I asked for a more prompt response. She told me that she wanted a separation and that we remain friends, to which I replied that I wasn't happy with it and wanted another chance, but if she needed time then fine. Later I tried to recant a bit and said that I wasn't ready to give up entirely, but the cat was out of the bag and that door was wide open now. In retrospect, I realize that it's essentially the same situation as it would have been before, and that I reacted way to strongly. When I read on the site that allowing (marital) separation to become an accepted option was the *LAST* thing you wanted to do, I wanted to throw myself through a plate glass window. Now I'm just trying to figure out how to let her know that I simply don't want to consider us "separated", that I can't accept it. Unfortunately that is how *she* is considering it, and how she refers to it.....

Sorry for another long post...I think I just feel the need to rant. As my friend puts it, I'm in the 'anger phase'. Luckily, since she is not here, she can't see me when I'm at my worst.

I'm having difficulty with this also. You see I was the one who wasn't very affectionate in our R and now that I want to be, my W finds it annoying and smothering. So I don't know how to approach this. I haven't told her that I love her in a while and any compliment towards her gets an angry stare.

So I am just trying to be nice, considerate and pleasant towards her but havent noticed any changes in her attitude. I know it takes a long time but I wish I could get some sort of feedback that these things are working.

What happens if she brings up the topic of seperation? So far I have been saying I'm not interested in seperating, I'm interested in working on our marraige.

It is so hard getting her to drop her guard and accept some of my affection. I don't want her to get comforatable with this notion of "being friends" either since we are M.

How do I continue to bring her wall down?

HopeThisWorks,
Well, the only thing I feel qualified to give advice on ATM is to just slip in small compiments here and there where they won't be too obvious. Say that she looks good in a particular outfit, or if she mentions something about not looking good or having some sort of flaw, gently say that it's not true.
I understand that Plan A basically says flat out not to expect miraculous changes and reciprocated affection, and I'm trying not to get my hopes up for that same reason. I'm just constantly reminding myself (it's so hard!) to take the small comments of gratitude and acceptance where I can get them, and if there aren't any ATM, well then I'll just have to hope that it's just not the right moment and more will come eventually.