I have a couple of Plan B contact questions that I need help with. I know these questions seem dim, I'm shaky on what is right, not right or I wouldn't ask for help... So here goes...

1. If Phil has emergency either his own personal or his family do I break contact? Do I allow him access to me in any way?

2. If Phil returns to the "you're invading and meddling" claims, do I defend myself? Do I stand up for myself or do I remain silent?

3. If Phil wants to try reconciliation and I maintain detachment, how will I know? When is it acceptable for me to have contact?

4. If Phil wants to try reconciliation, what is our first step toward working on recovery? Is it getting a coach? Is it talking with his parents? Is it nothing???


In the absence of having answers to the questions above, are there any instances where it is beneficial to break No Contact in plan B???

Thanks for the help everyone.
Sally

Good questions Sally......

Some of them I have myself.

It seems to me you're taking this from the wrong side: when is it okay to break Plan B, rather than how can you maintain it. Try to view this from the aims of Plan B -- not from your wish to have contact again. This is for YOU to have a chance to be protected from the affair. This is a chance for YOU to grow and change.

If he ends the A and wants to reconcile -- I'm sure he's smart enough to find a way to let you know (probably through family or friends). Don't worry about it till the A ends. You don't want to be around monitoring temporary ups and downs of the A, and you don't want to hear about "them" until he decides to get real.

If you realize the real aims of Plan B, most of your questions have answered themselves. For example, his accusations ... if you're in Plan B, how do you even hear about them? Not hearing these things is one of the reasons you're in Plan B. You want a break from this tit-for-tat stuff.

"If..." there is an emergency, you'll work with it then. Other than him needing triple bypass, there's no reason to consider breaking Plan B. His car breaking down on the highway is not an "emergency." The idea of this is to give him a taste of divorce. If his mother is ill, you will visit his mother separately, as if you were divorced already.

A.M. is right, it is better to look for reasons to NOT break Plan B.

However, I have answered some of your points:

1. I can’t think of any emergency that would be justification for breaking no contact in a situation where there are no children. If you were divorced, without children, it is doubtful there would be such a situation. I would approach it the same as you would if you were divorced.


2. I don’t understand this question because how can he ask this question if you are in no contact?


3 . In your Plan B letter, you lay out conditions for reconciliation. When he has met those, you will discuss it with him. So when he contacts you, you first ask “have you done XYZ?” If not, then tell refer him back to your PBL and hang up. You have to use your judgment to determine if he is serious or not and don’t get involved in any false overtures. [this will be common as he will try to test your resolve] Come here and talk to us first.

I don’t know of any circumstances that would justify breaking no contact.

AM, thanks so much for the input, just to clarify - these questions are not about a desire for contact. I'm doing fine with no contact. Fine emotionally and and fine maintaining it. Hard, but I'm coping.

I would like to be prepared as I am noticing patterns with other plan B'ers not knowing. I'm spinning a bit too much on these question. I did NOT break contact with Phil when he had an emergency (of the real sort, not the broken down car sort) last week. I don't feel great about it. It's done though.

I don't return Phil's messages or mail. There is no tit-for-tat and never has been. Historically, it has been better for us when I face Phil's questions about meddling in his A calmly, answer, and then detach again. I prefer to be accountable but if this is counter productive to plan B, well, that is why I'm seeking the wisdom of others... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

There are few for Phil to contact other than me if he wants to reconcile. I suppose he could ask one of his relatives to call me - the loyalty ties for each of us seem pretty well embedded. Let's say he shows up at home wanting to start over? My question still is - then what? What is the first step?

Do I let him come home? Do I go home with him? I think I would want a witness immediately. Someone we both are accountable to in the short term. Yes? No?

Sally

Mel thanks,

If we were divorced, I would have called during this emergency and made myself useful and available. No question. In fact because I believe there is a chance for us yet, I held fast to no contact. OK?

Let's be realistic. Just because there is no active contact does not mean there is not passive contact. There is none on my end. Can he check up on me? Well, not conveniently, but he can. Obviously if he calls to wish me well on the holidays or birhtday, anniversary whatever - I am not responding.

But for me, I do question the importance of proving accountability when Phil asks an important question about my trustworthyness and integrity. It is easy for me to be accountable AND be detached. I'm not convinced of the wisdom of complete No Contact when this is key for us... but like I said, I'm gathering...

Go ahead and laugh because it's pathetic and funny! I DON'T trust my judgment when it comes to me and Phil. It's been good to have input from other people. Hasn't kept me from making any mistakes but I made fewer because of all of you giving me the tools.

So let's say he's sincere. I am just enough of an idiot to say the totally wrong thing to Phil, or say nothing at all and just sit like a bump if and when he shows up. Serious. I'd really like NOT to blow my chances as they come... OK?

Sally

Sally, Plan B is a waste of time if you are going to break no contact to "provide accountability" for whatever. Don't bother. The point of Plan B is to not be "detached" it is to STOP CONTACT. That is what makes it effective. "Detached" contact, whatever that means, is still contact.

What are the terms of your PBL? My thoughts would be that he would have to show consistently, not just on one night, that he is willing to do what needs to be done to recover. You do not want a false R. So, based on what I have seen with others, you would need to know that he is sincere. MM explained this very well at the end of Mimi's Plan B thread. He was advising her when her H was starting to show signs of being willing to go to NC and R.

What would it take for you to be willing to take him back and give this a chance? The answer should be in the Plan B letter spelled out very clearly. If he tries to make attempts to reconcile, then you ask him if he is willing to meet these conditions, if he is not, you refer him to the PBL and cease conversations. If necessary, send him additional copies when this happens.

I do not think you should start living together right away. He needs to consistently prove that he is serious about R in his words and actions. Live separately and while doing so, he is proving his commitment to R.

I am not sure what you mean by a witness.

PS Do not engage him. Do not have contact unless you have the sincere sense he is committed to this.

And, you do not need to defend yourself as you should not be hearing anything about what he is/is not doing/saying. The point is to not be involved with his chaos anymore. If you were never a couple again, would you feel the need to "defend" yourself against his false perceptions?

Plan B is to take care of you and let him see what living without you in his life will look like. This is about caring for yourself and protecting any love you have left. No contact in Plan B is no contact . You should not even be hearing about him from others. If he is calling and leaving messages or e-mailing you, as soon as you hear/see something that does not resemble,"I am willing to work on this and this is what I will do...", delete the message and do not listen/read anymore of it. If necessary, have others preview them for you so you stay out of the chaos. Or, block him from your phone and e-mail (sorry, have not read your PBL, so do not know if you have an intermediary). Do not engage him in anyway unless it has to do with R. Period.

This is the time for you to care for yourself, have some peace, and preserve whatever love you have left.