It had been pointed out to me that WH may have been having an exit affair. I can't find much info on it and would appreciate any info you could pass to me.

That would make sense to me, he honestly seemed dissapointed that I did not kick him out that night. This is sounding more hopeless by the minute.

Here is what I have seen that would make an exit affair likely:

1.There is an EA in my past that he did not want to address-conflict avoidance.

2. He has never acted the least bit glad that I wanted to work though the affair.

3. The day after D-day, he started in on my character flaws-perhaps saying "if I am stuck with you, here's what you'll have to fix"

4. His EA is with someone he can't really be with (married for a green card issue-she probably won't risk deportation to be with my WH)

5. His conflict avoidance MO is working late-which he definately did in the months prior to starting EA.

6. Many different vague reasons for A and suggesting D. Today it is "I have dreams that I want to accomplish in my life"-but he cannot identify any of them.

7. Has been pretty adament about diminishing the A, wants to focus on the 10 years of marriage that led to my EA. Does not want to look at the three years we have gotten along very well.

What I am seeing now is this. We never dealt with my EA, he didn't want to. He said he was past it, he carried alot of guilt for it and he knows that it is not his guilt. When I found out about his EA, I wanted to dive right in and dissect and analyze. He is a CA and only lasted two weeks. At our second MC appt, I got angry and expressed my hurt and he checked out at that point. I can see that his hurt was never addressed.

I am a very confrontational person. I do not like hidden resentments. He is the exact opposite. We have such potential, but we lack the ability to deal with conflict on a middle ground. Since D-day, he has been insisting I back off and I have been hammering away at him desperately trying to prevent a relapse. I could not hear his need because I was too absorbed in my fear.

I don't know where to go from here. I want to call him and let him know I have it figured out, but that is still not respecting his need to cave dwell. We will separate, we will become everything the other needs again, and we will discuss reconciliation without ever talking about why we do this.

Or maybe we will never reconcile, I will always be a ball buster confronter (unless I learn from this) and he will only have short term relationships because he will not learn how to deal with conflict.

There is a middle road, but right now, I am not even sure what the original conflict was anymore.

When I first found out about WH's A I searched all over the 'net for info. That's how I found this great site. But I also found a site that described different types of A's and one of them was the "exit affair".

I was convinced at the time that my WH was having an "exit affair" because he too, is a conflict-avoider. After a couple of months though, I started to realize that it didn't really matter what "type" of affair it was, it was an effort on his part to get his needs met. I am now working on meeting those needs. I can't say I'm the poster child for that, because I'm not. But I can say that I have seen some positive results, even though they feel like they've been a long time coming.

I found this link that is a little quiz to help determine what type of affair you're dealing with if you must know. Don't know if it'll help you or not Jean, so I wish you the best.

Either way, will it change what you are doing? Just curious.

I had taken that quiz earlier and we scored in between CA nd exit. But it is hard with me taking the quiz about what I think he id doing.

I am working on a letter to WH now. If the conflict resolution is our primary problem, we will probably never have functional relationships with other people either.

I'd like to past it when I'm done, for feedback. For now, I am going to try to stay out of his face.

Jean, I think that it's hard to determine if an affair is an exit affair or not, however, it makes little difference in the long run. Many WS' get into affairs when they feel hopeless in their marriages, it still washes out the same. Some recover, some don't. Most do believe they want out of their marriages anyway, it does not doom the marriage.

I do think it is extremely relevent that there were serious problems in the marriage that were never addressed. The one that concerns me the most is the way you communicate with him. You call yourself a "ballbuster." Well, I suspected as much because it takes one to know one. [you and I are alot alike, I suspect] I had to go through 2 H's to learn how to treat a man with respect instead of busting his balls. My last H left me because he did not feel respected or admired by me. He left me for an uneducated female house painter who DID admire him.

Being a ball buster is the kiss of death in a marriage, Jean, and it contributes to your H's inability to communicate problems. Sure, he is a conflict avoider, but much more so with a wife who will mow him down at a moments notice. This is why I think it is very important that you relearn how you speak to him. The one that woke my [censored] up was Dr. Laura's Proper Care and Feeding of Husbands in addition to the Marriage Builders program.

You can learn to treat him with respect, Jean, but it will take time to convince him that you have really changed.

So don't give up, Jean, this is FAR from hopeless and we can help you through this. Don't allow yourself to walk away in a huff. I know you want to - I had to fight this too - but you know what happens when you walk away in that proud huff, you find yourself alone with yourself and your PRIDE. I know you, Jean.

{{{{Jean}}}} Just cause you seem to need one today <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

My WH is in IC. While I can't stand the therapist I do know they are working on how he avoids conflict at all costs. I'm like you, I tend to face it head on and try to deal with it. Unfortunately, we both know how well that works with these CA folks.

I just went over and read the questions under "exit affair" and most of them can be applied to the vast majority of affairs we see here. Classifying an affair might be useful in determining an approach, but it does nothing to accurately predict the final outcome of the affair and the marriage, IMO.

Melody, can I email you this letter to WH? I don't mean to snub anyone in the feedback dept, but it is a little long to post here. If any other "ballbusters" want to read it, I would welcome input.

lol, yes, go ahead and send it to me. I can't access my email from my office computer but I will read it when I get home.

I agree with MEL.

I also initially thought my H's A was an EXIT A. It was longterm. He initially said all this stuff about hating me, found his true love, etc.

We've been Happily Recovered for 2 years.

So be careful about labeling his A this way...

I also WAS a BALLBUSTER. YIKES...a new term for me...

I also learned a lot from PROPER CARE AND FEEDING OF Hs....

Mimi is another member of the female ballbusters club. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I hereby declare myself a REFORMED BALLBUSTER <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

lolol! ME TOO, Mimi! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I requested the "care and feeding" book from the library. It sounds like good reading. Hopefully I will be a reformed ball buster someday. I would love to be able to find something to admire about WH right now.

Tonight he is upset with me since I talked to an attorney. he wants me to hold off until he is "better situated".

It a little scary to venture onto a thread full of "ballbusters", but here goes....

I think a delicate balance has to be found in relationships were one partner is a CAer and the other is more dominant and comfortable with conflict. Often when somebody is not acknowledging a conflict, it is easy for the more dominant partner to relentlessly keep up the pressure in the hope of illiciting a response. This might have the effect of making the CAer withdraw more. It boils down to a simple communication issue in that one person is trying to communicate in a manner that makes the other person shut down totally.

This is further complicated by the fact that CAers are often not alpha-personalities and are more than happy in most situations to sit back and let their partner call the shots. The dominant partner becomes accustomed to this status quo and eventually stops looking for the CAer's validation before taking decisions. In extreme cases of CA the person is often so scared of creating disharmony that the signs of discontent are almost imperceptible.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that if you know that you are a "ballbuster" and your husband is a total CAer, then you have to be really go out of your way to be sensitive to the signals he is giving you. Also you have to make a consious decision to not keep piling on the conflict in the hope of illiciting a reaction from him. Instead, try to really include him in all decisions that pertain to the family and change your method of communication in a way which makes him feel safe to explore his feelings with you.

Your right curious.

I realized a lot about our conflict management style, or lack of it. Imagine Wh cowering under a rock and me running around the rock throwing Dr Phil quotes and self help books at him. That is our reality. If I had confidence he would stay out from under the rock, perhaps I could shut up and listen. And if he knew I could listen, he wouldn't scramble for the rock.

I don't think I am this bad in other realtionships. I have never dealt with such an avid rock digger before. I think I hear other people better because there is not that sense of urgency. With WH, if I miss it the first time, he dives down and I am yaking at his feet trying to stop him.

This is our only real problem. Everything else is just a symptom of this. He said he had the A because I was starting to look depressed. When he saw me using the internet too much (nothing bad, it is just my zone out place) he knew that he could not talk to me about it-so he had an affair. Twisted logic, but I actually understand.

When we were talking about reconciling after my EA, the house was in foreclosure. He has the $$, he just really stuck his head under a rock. He was going to just pack up when they kicked him out, never thinking that an apt is going to be as expensive as the mortgage. When he left this time, I want to freak out and sell the house tomorrow, let's get the crap rolling and get it over with. I hate slow drawn out deaths, lets just run it over by a Mack truck.

I am very glad to have this character aspect IDed. Now I can work on it. But, I think it is too late to save this M.

To Melody in re to previous questions:

I have always had a great deal of respect for DH. He is very smart, very passionate about his beliefs, he is a very good man. Our 14th anniversery was 9/14, and things were not going well. I wrote a letter about this DH that I miss, all the things I do love about that man. DH read it and appreciated it, he said.

I am just not sure how to back off and admire him from afar right now. I honestly can't think of anything admirable about him. I did speak to him yesterday about what I had told the girls. I did tell him I respect him as a father, that is why I want his input on how the kids are dealing. But even that respect is failing me. My 8yo said that it sounds pretty selfish to make a decision like he did when he is the only one happy about it. Heck, she is 8 and she gets it.

And I need to get something done legally. He has financially abandoned us at this point. I really can't spend anymore time hoping for a fog to lift. He denies the fog, says he has never thought so clearly. I can deal with that on an emotional level-but the banker is not going to accomodate fogginess. I don't know how to handle legal discussions without letting him know that I don't trust that he is going to meet his financial obligations.

He wants me to wait until he is "better situated". The kids will get pretty hungry by then. Can I start legal stuff and just give him his admiration and respect on other issues??

Jean, you can treat him with respect and still try to meet his EN of admiration AND file for support. Plan A doesn't stand for appeasement at all costs. Just let him know you are filing for seperation right now in order to protect yourself and the kids. Just convey that message without lovebusters.

Your first obligation is to protect your finances from his fogginess. Like you so aptly said, the banker is not going to accommodate fogginess.

" I don't know how to handle legal discussions without letting him know that I don't trust that he is going to meet his financial obligations."

It's ok to let him know that you don't trust that he is going to meet his obligations and that you will do what it takes to protect yourself. That is not a lovebuster.

Another amusing tidbit. My mom watched my kids while I went to the attorney, so I had to tell her something before the kids did. My mom does business at the place that OW and OWH manage and she is on a first name bases with the owner. She will be by there Friday. Is there any reason that she should not say something to the owner at this point? She said owner is a very moral man and he knows my WH is mom's SIL. Wh would be irate if OW has any work conflict because of this, but I am sick of the attempts to normalize this crap.

WH also ran into my stepfather. Stepfather asked what he was doing on that side of town and WH just casually replied that he lived over there now-no explanation, no shame, just completely normal. WH also talked to my brother yesterday and just as casually said he really sees this as a positive change in his life, time to grab the gusto...

The attorney said there is no point in filing for legal separation. It is twice as expensive as D and not always a good indicator of what a divorce settlement would look like. The only thing I need nailed down is the financial stuff. We can do 50/50 custody as soon as he has a place for them to live. Attorney recommends filing for D, getting temp order of support and I can sit on the D for up to a year.

I don't want a D, but I cannot let him wreck every aspect of my life.