Jean, I would expose the affair wide and far! That is your job. You should be calling up the owner and talking to the OWH. Exposure is ruinous to an affair, because affairs thrive on secrecy. The more exposed, the faster it will die off. You are right, your H is trying to normalize his sleazy affair, and you are letting him get away with it.

Jean, just do what you need to do to protect your finances, because he sure won't do it. If you file for divorce, just let him know why you are doing this and that you don't want a divorce.

I think I would try to deal with your husband by calmly presenting him the various options and consequences thereof and allowing him to partake in the decision.

I would try to sit him down and point out if you actually end up divorcing the consequences thereof will be such and such on your finances and you will probably have to set up your life in the following fashion in order to accomodate 50/50 custody of our daughters. If you end up reconciling then you will both have to work on identifying traits which need to be changed in both of you and your finances will be so and so. Finally, if the situation remains as it is for any longer then you will have to take steps to secure yourself and your daughters financially and these actions will have the following impact on him and the family.

I would present these as the three options that you can forsee and ask him if he can imagine any other scenerios and what he feels their implications would be. Ask him to present you with his thoughts and opinions, while gently reminding him which option you are in favour of.

Another issue with your husband being a CAer is that although he realises what is right and wrong in this scenerio, he is probably scared of having a conflict with the OW as well. The thing is he has to realise that he has put himself in a position where he will hurt somebody regardless of what he does and there is no way to exit without somebody being angry with him. You just can't please all of the people all of the time.

I think if you start to pose him options in a non-confrontational or pressuring manner he might actually come around and start to address some issues with you. Hopefully he will see it as a major 180 and a sound footing for continued communication in the future.

I don't think it would be conducive to take any legal steps without really trying to discuss them and have his input. Anything you do without his knowledge will be seen as you trying to impose control over the situation and send him scrambling under his rock.

I really understand how difficult and frustrating it is to not follow your instinct and impose your stance on the situation as I am also somebody who is comfortable with conflict and likes to deal with it immediately in a pragmatic manner. Unfortunately, although this is the best way to deal with conflict, not everybody can handle or appreciate that.

thanks Curious. He is supposed to take the kids to dinner tonight and I think he said he would be open to discussing what the lawyer said. maybe I am being shortsighted, but I only see two options, please help me ID the third.

1. He stays gone and I go ahead and file for D and the temp. order of support. I can sit on the D for a year-I don't want the D, but bankers don't do "foggy".

2. He comes home, is only supporting one household. Perhaps we could sit it out until the end of the school year. Reevaluate in the spring, sell house, put kids in school, divorce or have a happier marriage.

3. Keeping the status quo is not working. He is dating, my grocery budget is nil, the kids are fried-this just won't work.

He says he wants a D, but wants me to wait until he is better situated. He is afraid I will try to get more than 50/50 custody since he is living in a hotel at this time. I am fine with 50/50, but he knows he will have to find a place on our side of town. He is currently on OW side of town. he can't get the kids to me in the AM and make it to work.

He just wants the world to freeze while he explores his feelings for OW.

Curiosity, the problem with having discussions with him about this is that he is not a rational person right now and does not have her best interest at heart. She can't be at the mercy of an insane person who is in the throes of an addictive affair and that is why he should have no input. Her family's financial security can't be dependent upon the agreement of someone who is in the process of destroying his family. He has already put her off by asking her to wait until he is "better situated." In the meantime, she can't afford to sit around and let her financial situation disinegrate while waiting for him to come to his senses. She needs to move forward and protect herself and the kids.

Harley recommends taking whatever steps necessary to protect oneself financially and I think that is very sound advice.

Jean, this might also be a much needed cold splash of reality that will wake him up to what he is doing. Just do what you need to do and don't worry about getting the stamp of approval from an insane man. Take care of your family.

Jean, please just do what you need to do to protect yourself and those kids. You don't need his agreement to do that.

On the cold splash of reality thing. Chances are very good that either the homeschooling or the house will have to go. It is just not financially feasible that he can keep up two households. Now, I can make it work, I am pretty creative, but logically, I need to work more to compensate for him removing his income. If I have to work more, the kids are going to need to be in school.

He is VERY prohomeschooling, and very pro keeping the house. Perhaps I can try to muster up some respect and ask his advice on how we can keep the house and the kids in HSing. I am happy to work, but he is going to have to be dependable as my babysitter. That will come in time, but right now, he has other priorities.

changing thread title

I agree with you Mel that he is probably not rational at the moment, however, I still think it would be far better if Jean at least attempted to explain to him the options available and ask his input. I beleive it is particularly important in the case that her husband has allowed Jean in the past to call almost all the shots and is perhaps feeling a little controlled in the relationship.

At least this way, when and if Jean does what she needs to do, he knows that he was expressly asked for his opinion and had every chance to contribute to the decision. If Jean decided to file for divorce without consulting him, he will convince himself that the decision and impetus were entirely hers and he could not have done anything to change the situation. I think being a CAer he will take that opportunity to say it was not his decision.

Jean's comment about the house being in foreclosure shows that this is not somebody who decided to grasp life in his hands and mold it to his wishes, but rather somebody who feels that he cannot or will not influence the course of events no matter how detrimental they are and just lets themn happen. I really feel that if Jean files for divorce on her own than that is precisely what she will get.

Jean, you are absolutely right in that the third option is an absolute non-option and there are really only two.

Can I say this to him "We are a good team and we have always been able to problem solve together. So if we can talk about our realistic options, we can make an informed decision about what is best in these circumstances"

He will ask why I can't just wait on him. I need him to understand that his not giving me the "grocery allowance" in a month has had a detrimental affect on the household budget.

As far as the chance for reconciliation, I don't even know whether to mention that or not. I think he knows this is not what I want. I did offer him the den to hole up in before he left.

I do not want to love bust, but I would like him to know that I must move on something since he won't stop dating. He is done-now what is his plan?

You sound quite certain that you do not want to reconcile. Why not?? Given the current situation, what would be your ideal outcome??

I am quite certain that I DO want to reconcile. I am sorry I gave you that impression, what did I say so that I won't say it to WH.

But he is not giving me any indication that there is a snowball chance in ****** for our marriage. I can't save it alone when he is at a hotel. I am trying to show him less ball busting behavior so he thinks of me in a a favorable light. I do want my marriage, but I have to be realistic and cover my butt.

Jean, but you MUST let him know that you are not moving on, that you are NOT interested in D. If you file for divorce for financial protection, which I think you must given his past irresponsibility, it will be important to make sure he understands that you are only filing for financial reasons and not because you want the D. He may think he wants out, they ALL DO, but that changes nothing. As far as you are concerned, this is FAR from over and that should be conveyed to him. If he wants to talk divorce, you tell him NO, you won't talk about D, you will only talk about marriage.

Perhaps a talk about finances is in order, but I don't hold much hope there since he has already withheld your grocery money for a month. He does not have your best interest at heart and you both know it. I would be very leery of entering into ANY financial agreements with someone like that. You would be at the mercy of a crazy person who could withhold your food money at a whim.

It still comes back to this, Jean: you have to do what it takes to protect yourself financially regardless of your H.

Secondly, I would start taking other steps to support yourself, such as looking for a job and putting the kids in public school. This is something I would talk to him about first, though. You have to be assured an income and unless you can count on him, you have to go to work. Maybe the mention of sending the kids to public school will wake him up a bit.

And Jean, are you going to finish exposing this affair? You have the OW on the run right now, don't give her a chance to regroup. Call up her H and then make a call to her boss. I think it would be good of your mother to talk to the owner too.

Ok..... sorry Jean.. I totally misunderstood your previous post.

I think Mel has given you some excellent advise, especially regarding exposure. It will be interesting to hear how your conversation with him goes tonight.

If I use the term "temp order of support" more often than I say "D papers", would that be better? The lawyer said I need both.

How do I respectfully convey the message that this A is unacceptable and I will not help him normalize it.

I am assuming that there is no point at this time talking about the realization of our conflict resolution issue. Right? I need to just show that I am workingon my ball busting behavior.

On the normalizing the affair thing:

When I left due to my EA, me and OM did end up together and my family accepted him very openly. OM was my first love, they knew him and they were glad I was not with DH anymore. My former Dh even befriended OM and they got along swimmingly, very bizarre situation.

Now, WH is concerned that OW will not be welcomed into the fold. Yes, it looks unfair, I guess it is. But I was WRONG with my A and it was WRONG to act like it was pretty. Now, he is wrong and he doesn't understand why I won't pretty it up for everyone.

I do understand the double standard he sees-it does exist. So I do I explain my stance that two wrongs don't make it right, I was wrong before and he would have been well within his rights to make it look as nasty as it truly was.

Explain that two wrongs don't make a right. Your affair was sleazy and immoral and so is his.

Well, he just left. He took the girls out for dinner and then we had a quick chat.

I had the stereo blaring when they knocked (he loves music, I am sure that he was surprised that I listened to music when I have the house to myself). I looked good and I completely kept my cool.

He wants the D, but wants me to wait until he at least has an address. I very carefully said that when he said he had never thought more clearly-I had assumed that he had all those bases covered (very kindly, I said it-was that a ball buster?) We talked about how the kids are doing. He just wants time to get situated. He is now saying that he did not divorce me during the first separation because where I was living would not have put me in a good light. I pointed out (respectfully) that the court probably would have just ordered more child support (we agreed to an amount about 1/3 of what he would have owed. That is probably the main reason we never divorced, all the lawyers said a judge would not sign off of that amount).

I thanked him for not speaking angrily to me tonight. We did not mention his A, he did mention my A. I did apologize again for not realizing that those issues should have been dealt with (for the record-he never wanted to talk about it after we reconciled).

He teared up at one point. He looked a little like my dear old departed DH. I stuck my neck out and gave him that letter (but I had edited out the part about the exit affair diagnoses). So my letter said I realized I tormented him with my conflict confrontation, and I think I showed him tonight that I am working on that.

No warm fuzzies or anything, he pretty much killed any surface feelings for him the night he said "I might be making the biggest mistake of my life" and then he tore my children's heart out by telling them he was leaving. I still have a deep love for DH, but I know that WH is not that man.

I feel OK this AM. I think this is going to take a pretty good while so I best hunker down and get ready. I think I am finally getting the carrot/stick thing. I know that this is going to be very painful for me and the kids, but we have done this before.

There is no point in me saying anything at all about his A. He has completely absolved himself of all guilt at this point. He deserves his happiness is what he says. But he also says that happiness is just a state of mind.

I will not participate in normalizing the R between WH and OW. More exposure will occur Friday, but he won't be able to accuse me of doing it. He has completely isolated himself from anyone who thinks he is wrong. So him and OW are pretty much on their own. That is scary for me, but I think that is how it has to be right now. I am not able to meet any of his EN's except as a mother to his children.

When we were separated before, it didn't take long for us to get to the point where we would call each other as friends, call for trivia answers, we really got along well. It drove both of our SO's nuts. We saw each other several times a week due to the nature of our custody arrangement and the homeschooling. He had the kids 3-4 nights a week but he had to bring them to me every morning.

So I am plan Aing even though he is gone. Hopefully, it won't take long for him to warm up to me enough to start letting me meet some EN's. I know that a good plan B is only effective once you have made enough deposits in the bank.

And plan A works at this point because even if we stay apart, I really do want to have the good coparenting relationship we had before. So I can be in lighthouse mode and let everyone else work on the anti-OW campaign.

I may sound like I am bailing, but I don't think so. There is only one avenue of exposure left and that will happen Friday. And it will be his fault for trying to normalize it. He won't be able to say it was done out of revenge, he is acting like it is a simple fact of life so let the chips fall where they may.