((ff))

And hurrah to froz:
"You stop that!!!

You are not a crappy mother. You are a human being who makes mistakes. Of course, freaking out in front of DD is not good behavior, but clean it up and then let it go. No sense in beating yourself up about it."

I know how everyone here is always harping about "not in front of the children" and I agree - in a perfect world!
But where I live -on Earth- it is NOT a perfect world or even close to it and Poop Happens (just look out past my barn, Poop really does happen)! I KNOW that I am not supposed to ever yell at my H in front of the kids, or cry in front of the kids, or .....but I HAVE done it. And guess what ff, I am a good Mom. Great Mom somedays, but in general, a really good mom. And you are too.

I play that perfectionist game too. And my H isn't a bad guy either. But he does have problems tha he won't address and he isn't being such a great H these days.

And your H really has been a Poophead. Have you ever been? Yep. Did you stop? Yep. Have you been continuing with a behavior that hurts your H? Nope.

ff, you probably do need to make H move out. Or at least do what someone said- Leave when he is there. Let him take care of kids too. H meets Reality. Reality smacks H.

And ff, yours was always a thread I followed these last few months when I lurked. Maybe we are not all bored with this crap. Or I just really have a sad boring existence and have to look on the internet for fulfilment. (never mind that may be too close to the truth) But you are still not boring me!

jls

think ---> balance

If you require yourself to be needed what sort of person do you select? Someone needy perhaps?

If your needy person tried to become less and less needy, how might you behave so they still needed you?

Are you thinking if someone needs you they will never leave you?

Maybe start thinking about how you might have made being needed a higher priority than being loved. .... and why. Then ask yourself if the price is right.

Could someone love you .... YOU the woman .... even if they did not need you for something?

Could someone love you ... YOU the woman ... if you needed them to take care of you sometimes?

I just printed your post so I can read it over and over. I think I see what you mean... Yes, I picked a man that had never been on his own. More and more efficient. I took control of more and more things in our lives until he became expendable. In some screwed up kind of way, yes. I know my DS will never leave and I want my DD to leave and live her own life but there could be something to that. If I am needed that I have value. This I will do some serious thinking on.

Yes, I do know someone could love me even if they don't need me but I have never really allowed any man to do that. I have a couple g/f's that I have that type of R with. But that is recent. My HS friends always came to me for help or money or whatever.

Ok, intellectually yes someone could love me and take care of me sometimes. My H has grudingly done so when I needed it but really I am not "allowed" to get sick. He has honestly told me that in the past. He doesn't handle illness very well.

If you require someone else's neediness to feel/be valued in a relationship ... what happends when/if they grow stronger & less dependant ?

Well I have managed to let go a great deal with my older DS but mostly cuz I am overwhelmed with his siblings. Geez, I might have become the mom that wouldn't cut the apron strings! With older DS I just had to trust that he would love me even though his needs have changed. I am still mom and he still needs my help but in distinctly less helpings than my younger two. Hmm..what happens? I guess I find other outlets for being needed. If I don't I will stunt their growth and place MY dependance on THEM which is inappropriate.

Remember

Passionate Marriage

can you sense the emotional fusion?

In the past .... Did you select a weak man in order to feel efficient and in charge of things?

Who told you to hold up the world FF?

Yes, I saw myself in the description of emotional fusion but my response was to run from the book when it hit home.

I don't know that I needed to feel efficient as much as my role of caretaker by then was deeply ingrained.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" /> me too

but I went back

Something I discovered about myself recently and shared with my H is that I am very immature in my ability to express my emotions/feelings verbally. I still have that childish "I hate you" reaction to emotional wounds.

KEWL !

Nice piece of self-discovery detective work !

BTW, in reading the book by Beattie " Codependent No More" I saw my mom. She was the child of an alcoholic father who slowly killed himself with booze.

Ok, I am exhausted and have taken much of your time today. I cannot tell you how much you are appreciated. I printed this stuff out to read. I will do some work and keep at it, I promise.

Thanks!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

FF - as pep said - great discovery.

I made that discovery too a week before H left.

I realize my tongue became a weapon - when he hurt me - I naturally reacted back and hurt back - not even realizing I did. But it was the only way I knew how to deal with my hurt.

I got that under control by making 30 phone calls a day LOL - venting on other people for support, so that whatever H threw at me, I could control my tongue...learned to walk away.

It was the HARDEST change I have made to date. Now after having all the intervening, I can most of time intervein on myself as it has taught me to keep my mouth shut and think abut things and the reality of the current situation - and not immediately jump to I hate you (whether out loud or in my mind) and process what I am really feeling.

FF - have you read the self confident woman by Janet Congo? It helps women with their relationship with God by learning interdependence and not independence or co-dependence. Teaches you to forgive yourself, learn to be in healthy relationships and deal with emotions.

Hang in there sweety (((((FF)))))

No problemo.

Too much heady stuff today ... I need silliness STAT

FF - the state of things at home at the moment is destroying you.

What is it that he wants. You're saying he won't go. Why? He doesn't want to give up OW and OC but he doesn't want to remain married either. Do you still cook for him and do his laundry? If so, I think now would be a good time to stop but most of all stop shouting at him and giving him your attention. There is no reason at this stage for him to be lying to you yet he continues to do so. Get away from him before he brings you to your knees. He doesn't care about you. Why do you want to share your life with a man who shows you nothing but disrespect?

ff ~ we teach other people who to treat us.

And I know you don't want another book right now, but the Language of Letting Go is simply a daily reader, with a nifty index of topics like oh - Anger, or even more fun, Perfectionism.

Very good for a attitude adjustment when your brain is spinning.

acceptance.

Doesn't mean you like or agree with reality. It just means that you stop throwing temper tantrums about it, and spend the energy doing something about the stuff you can change (you) to your liking.

I spent many hours screaming at God and my sponsor, about the unfairness of my husband.

*HE* left me alone to care for our 3 children. *HE* left me pregnant, disabled, and unemployed, struggling to pay bills and run the house and chase 2 young boys.

IT WASN'T FAIR.

My sponsor had to rather forcefully point out to me that *I* could do the same thing.

NO I COULDN'T - I DONT GET A CHOICE!!!

She just laughed.

Yes you do. You are choosing to do something else.

You choose to stay and care for your family.

He does not.

He is free to choose. So are you.

Bloody ******, she wouldn't let me have my moment of self pity.

She had this incredibly annoying habit of being right.

You aren't a victim anymore than I was.

What you are is a woman who can get up in the morning and look herself in the mirror and *know* that she has done what is right in choosing to remain firm to her comittments and obligations.

That my dear...makes you a GREAT mom.

Wrap your arms around your precious children and celebrate them.