What if my husband - who I totally believe is having an EA - even if its not all "I love you's" blah blah blah. But what if he truly does not see that he is having an EA? What if he truly believes that she is just a buddy? As a matter of fact - what if they both truly believe that - becuase there is no comments of love and endearment, nor sex. So what in this case? Is it still an EA?

Hi SH,

What's more important than what these two *believe is how their supposed "friendship" makes their SO's,wives or husbands feel.

If your H cares about you and doesn't want to hurt you,he will end any opposite sex relationship in a instant if it bother's you.If he puts up barriers and excuses then I would say you have some researching to do.Opposite sex friendships are very tricky and some would say that you shouldn't have them when you are married.I tend to believe that in most cases because it takes a very self aware and educated person to be able to recognize signs and symptoms of an impending fall from fidelity (even more so how to prevent it!) and even then there are risks,risks that should just not be taken for the sake of the marriage and family,IMO.

And,another fact based on many, many, many scenarios here is that people involved in EA's(and PA's) are most likely not going to tell you the truth and they will purposely hide what they are feeling and doing to avoid suspicion and threat.If they believe what they are doing isn't wrong and it would be wrong to 99% of the rest of the MB world then they aren't likely to admit it.

Seasoned MB'ers tend to know when an inpappropriate relationship is going on.And there doesn't have to be "I love you's" either.

O

Ok - so now I am beginning to accept that he could be having an EA - very possibly a PA. What now? I have read HNHN - I have scoured the website - and understand Plan A and B. If he denies it still and will not end contact - what do I do? Throw him out? I wish I could just move far far away and strt over with a clean slate, or have some sort of reset button.

IMHO - Friendships between members of the opposite sex, when either party is married, can be a minefield. Looking way back to 1987 when I first met my FWH...we started out as friends. Then, and on throughout our relationship and eventual marriage, we both maintained numerous friendships with members of the opposite sex.

The OW had been a friend of my FWH the entire time I have known him. Even though they lived in different parts of the world, they kept in touch, althought infrequently. It had been quite clear to me many years ago when I met her, that she was attracted to him. That fact never bothered me since she was a pretty unattractive young girl, even then.

Somewhere over the years, both marriages developed "issues" as they so often do. The issues in our marriage were of the type (Sexual) that my FWH was too embarrassed to discuss them with any of his male friends. So, he confided with OW. She of course, being such a good friend, and having her own agenda, made sure that she knew just what buttons she would need to push to entice him (finally after years of waiting).

So the friendship became a lengthly EA all the while she coaxed him and wooed him and threw in the towel on her own marriage. Both were guilty of dishonesty with each other. He led her to believe that he was financially much better off than he was, she led him to believe that they could enter into a sexual relationship with no other strings attached other than their friendship. They both made extraordinary to hook up dispite the 3000 mile distance between them.

So as most EA's do, theirs became a PA. IMHO, many BS here who believe their WS only engaged in a EA have been soundly dupped. The end result, here is that everyone lost, both FWH and OW lost a friend and my FWH lost my trust.

I now believe in what I call zero tolerence. He is no longer allowed to have friendships with women. PERIOD. If he finds someone who he feels is worth the risk. She can have him. He has already shown that he has crossed the line once so he doesn't get a second chance on that one.

I played a role in our marital problems and I have busted my *** fixing those things. I lost my ability to trust, my innocence, my comfort, my confidence. He has lost the freedom to chose whom he can be friends with. Small price as far as I am concerned.

So, in your case, if I makes you uncomfortable...i.e. if it smells funny to you, there is probably something funny going on. Your H simply needs to put your peace of mind, your well being and your marriage ahead of this friendship. Ask him to. His reaction to this request will tell you alot about just how "important" she is to him.

If you asked me a year ago if men and women can have a friendship, I would of said yes. Now when I woke up from my FWW's A, and started looking at reality I now say no.

People can always start off as friends...but there will aways be a chance that it would turn into a EA.

Do things together as much as possible.

When the situation does not allow that ensure actions and conversation would be as if spouse is present.

If the things one says, and the way one acts would not be approved of by ones spouse. There is a problem.

Also, does he communcicate with her while your around? Does she communicate with you? If not, why? If they are truly just "friends" why are you not a part of that?

It is all about boundaries. Given that I work in a male dominated field, many of my friends have always been men. I'm not saying that I have never been hit on by any of them, but I can honestly say that I have never even been tempted to cross the line. Boundaries, boundaries, boundaries.

In the time I have been with my FWH both before and after marriage, I can honestly say I have never been tempted to cheat.

So in fairness, I feel that I am still entitled to male friends. My FWH has shown that he had couldn't maintain proper boundaries with a particular female friend so he lost that right. Tough luck.

I always thought it was becoming more and more normal and natural progression to have opposite sex friendships given that women are back in the workplace more every year. Many fields are now dominated by women. I'm an accountant and women are well over 50% of the new accountants coming into the field now. How can you work 40-70 hours a week in a mixed office environment and not develop some friendships with the opposite sex?

Now that my Ex has left to be with a co-worker I still feel that it is possible. I for one have many female friends from the work place. I have never let it get too personal in nature. I could always see that allowing too close a friendship could explode into more. Your own relationship with your spouse and how well you keep it up determines if a friend will become more than that. When your spouse turns to these "friends" and starts mulling over problems at home with them rather than you, that is when they cross the boundaries. Once you bring your emotions and insecurities out to this friend you open Pandora's Box and anything can and does occur.

It takes a truly strong and emotionally secure person to counsel someone else on their relationships without crossing any boundaries. Some are capable, some are capable but have issues of their own at home and some are predators of chance. Opening up away from the home without seeking your spouse out first violates the MB principal of radical honesty and starts the ball rolling on the A.

Dukhuntr

I strongly believe that emotional affairs are just as destructive as physical affairs, and so will most of the folks who have survived either.

You have to decide how you are going to handle it, but you are within your rights to insist that it stop and that proper boundaries be respected.

Are opposite-sex friendships inevitable in today's workplace? To some extent, but they CANNOT be treated the same as same-sex friendship. I'm a guy. I have guy friends. With those guy friends I am free to discuss problems in my marriage. I am free to discuss personal issues that that I may not be able to discuss with my wife at the time.

I have female friends too, including at work. But here is the difference -- I never talk with them about any problem in my marriage, and I never listen to them discuss problems with their relationship. I will not discuss with them anything I would not discuss if my wife were with us at the moment. Those comments are strictly reserved for guy friends.

Just my view.

working....great boundaries. It was only after FWH and OW starting discussing their own respective marital woes that their friendship took an improper, distructive road.

Yes, I talk to her when he is around - she has basically adopted us as her family. I know she loves the attention she gets when she is with us, as she is a single mom and deals with teeneage boys the rest of the time. We have two small little girls who adore her - as a matter of fact she is Godmother to our youngest.
I can look back now in the past four or so years and see my decline. I wonder what is wrong with me? All the time I feel like I am not good enough for him. What has she got that I dont? Why cant he love me? I am not a bad person. I try so hard to make him happy and sacrifice myself -but if I step outside of myself and take a good look, I dont like what I see. I have no self esteem, I am on anti-depressants, I am counseling, I cry ALLOT, I am moody, I yell at my kids. He doesnt talk to me, doesnt touch me like he used to - subtle PDA's. He assumes that I know he loves me, justifies his relationship with her by saying she is his "safety-net" - whatever that means. He does not have any other friends, no buddies, no guy friends. Leaves me to all the domestic stuff - while the fun stuff is reserved for her - even if I try to get involved with him alone - somehow I end up by myself and he is off with her. I have asked him not to see her - not to go to her house - yet he continues - right in front of me - there is nothing secretive - maybe that his justification to say he is not having an affair if its right in front of me.
My heart is aching so, and I just dont know what to do - I am too afraid to fend for myself. Dont even know if I can do it. Yet - I dont want to live this way either. Like I said before I wish there was a re-set button.
They will never cease communication unless we move far away. They work together on a daily basis. Her marriage is already been destroyed by her ex - who was a WH - so why not destroy mine - she gets some satisfaction in that right?