Hi gang,<BR>This has been a rough week for me and it just got rougher... I just got an E-Mail from my W. To bring you up to speed, She said 2 weeks ago that she wants a divorce for sure and was going to file. So far she hasn't and I don't know if it is because of financial issues for her or because she doesn't want to. I also had a gut suspicion that she was seeing somebody and this e-mail confirms it. I am confused how to interpret this..... Please help me...<P>This is the portion I am having trouble with:<P>"I don't want you to be angry with me for the lack of communication and contact I am offering. It just adds to my plate of sh@t I have created and need to deal with. I don't know why it's so hard and uncomfortable for me...I can't even type this e-mail without going through ten tissues! And something you probaby don't want to hear - I went out on a "date" Saturday night. It was different and weird; I thought it would help me get back some self-confidence, but I was wrong - I was very<BR>insecure. I am however, very much in control and not the least bit vulnerable."<P>The vulnerable refers to me being vunerable after she left me and she was right, I got drunk and had a "counter-affair" ( one night stand ) If she is so ready to divorce would she be e-mailing me this and being so honest.<P>I am truely happy that she is being honest with me and feels that she can tell me this, But I'm not sure how to feel. Help please, I need some insight on this.... anything. <P>------------------<BR>Rutger......One day at a time.<P><BR><p>[This message has been edited by Rutger (edited September 27, 1999).]

Rutger - this is not easy. I wish I knew what to say - you helped me to calm down this weekend. <P>Sounds like to me she's not as sure as she thought she was. And maybe her telling you she was "in control" was her way of letting you know she didn't "slip"??? That's a good think. <P>I think you keep trying. She's not sure, she's still confused, she's still thinking. That leaves room for influence, don't ya think? Take it easy, but you know what to do.<P>Hang in there. The game's not over yet.<P>Lori

So if she is unsure why would she tell me that she is dating??? I don't think I could go out on a date right now and be the slightest bit comfortable. Also if she is dating isn't that like continuing an affair?? Looking for love elsewhere?? If she continues to date would that be time for plan B or continue plan A ??? I just don't get it!!! More input, please......<P>------------------<BR>Rutger......One day at a time.<P><BR>

Hmmm...I'm thinking that she told you about her "uncomfortable date" because she is subtly telling you that she didn't like it, and perhaps isn't what she wants to do. Maybe she is wanting you to take the next step because she doesn't know what you are thinking right now. I don't know much about your position, but if reconciliation is something you are looking to do, then perhaps now would be a good time to try and start on that...I think she may be putting the ball into your court, and asking for guidance to talk things thru. maybe.

Just bringing this back up..... I want to E-mail her back but before I do I really need some more insight..... Thanks<P>------------------<BR>Rutger......One day at a time.<P><BR>

Hi Rutger -<P>Boy, as if we're not confused enough - the tidbits they give us have to create more confusion......AAARRRRGGGGHHHH!!<P>The most direct approach would be to ask her what she meant!!! <P>The whole paragraph says that she is upset and confused and has lost self confidence......then the last line says that she is in control and not vulnerable.......HUH????<P>What the he......????<P>You can either ask her outright or ask if the opportunity presents itself (is this EMail awaiting a response from you?) or just stick to Plan A principles and take every opportunity to show her that she is worth a lot to you and that she can trust that you will make sure to show it.<P>Any thoughts?<P>Hugs,<P>Sheba

Sheba,<BR>Thank you for your reply, I didn't even see it until you pointed it out ( confused yet in control ) I was so tunneled into the fact that she went out on a date....<P>This is needing a reply in the next few days.. She wants to come by the house and get some of her winter clothing, She was supposed to come by last Saturday but cancelled because she felt like poop, I guess not bad enough to go out on a date though........ God this bugs me so much I just don't know what to do.<P>------------------<BR>Rutger......One day at a time.<P><BR>

Hi Rutger -<P>Glad I could point it out then .....<P>This is a good example in communication for you to be conscious of.<P>You tunneled on one thing.....she said a lot of different things but you did not see!!! Very good show of how to not focus and to REALLY take in the whole scenario......<P>She is extremely confused - thus the OM garbage....... <P>It all comes down to her mind and self esteem. See - it has nothing to do with men!!!! She's searching for answers for some "void" within her own self. She is trying anything and everything to make changes to see if that void fills.<P>Problem is that she doesn't know why that void is there or at the very least doesn't realize that communicating with you about it would probably fill it!!<P>Does this show you that there's no personal rejection of you (the man) for another man.....it's just a search for something!!!<P>This could be very helpful for you in dealing with the pain of personalizing the infidelity.....she's escaping from a problem. She's not rejecting "you" specifically.<P>What do you think?<P>Hugs,<P>Sheba

Golly, if we can just get past the facts and get to the feelings that she was trying to convey to you.<P>I think she is feeling like she wants to connect in someway with you, and is so confused that she is searching for someway to "feel good again" - but she didn't start another "affair" in her mind when she went on a date. I think the main part of the "feeling" that she was conveying is that she has unresolved issues with you, and is afraid to deal with them - and the dating isn't a way to resolve them, at least this is what she is discovering.<P>I think she wants to resolve or talk with you, but is afraid - and looking for a way out of feeling bad over all the issues????<P>Hard to read without the context of the entire email.<P>I think I would reply to her that you are sorry that she is afraid to open up "Pandora's box of issues" - but that you want to help her get stronger and be that self confident self assured woman that you know she can be.<P>I think her lovebank is on empty right now - which is wonderful, because it could be a chance to start making deposits.<P>Don't go to B yet. You can do this.<P>TNT

I do see that ( the void ) but doesn't she realize that the method in which she is searching for it is killing me. Also why would she tell me ??? I totally agree with my communication problem. I think I was missing the rest of it because I'm a little ( alot ) extra sensitive right now.<P>Do you agree that her going out on dates is like continuing an affair ?? Or is that just me trying to justify my feelings of pain?? How would you ( as a woman ) recomend me (as a lunk head of a man ) approaching her to help fill that void ?? <P>------------------<BR>Rutger......One day at a time.<P><BR>

rutger, I agree with TNT and sheba about hanging in there and being there for her. Have you guys ever discussed counseling as a couple or at least her to see what issues she may have? I have never asked you if you felt she may be in some type of withdrawal from the OM? She definitely sounds like she is unsure about everything in her life, just make sure she knows what it is you are offering her (your changes, plan A behavior, and safety in conversation and companionship). On the positive side, you are at least in the ballgame and waiting for pitches, just watch the ball.

TnT,<BR>Wow, I think you hit ot on the head. That makes alot of sense. She has mentioned in the past that she is just tired of feeling bad all the time and just wants to feel good again. <P>The rest of the e-mail had to do with her wanting to sell her car and apologizing for not meeting me this weekend because she felt bad. Also she said she was in a mood where she thought she would break down crying and didn't want to do that.<P>I want to help her get strong again so that we can start to discuss the issues. I guess continuing plan A is the way. Question: Do I enquire about her date or the prospect of her going on further dates ?? Do I tell her how I feel about it ?? I fear by telling her she will not open up to me anymore and then do it anyway. I really do like the fact that she is being VERY open and honest with me right now. <P>------------------<BR>Rutger......One day at a time.<P><BR>

Izzy,<BR>We have discussed joint counseling but never followed through and she said she is not ready..... She is seeing a counselor but unfortunatley the feeling I get is that the counselor is giving her some bad information. Stuff like if I really deep down wanted to work it out the I would have never slept with someone during our seperation. I can see that point of view from someone who has never been where we are.<P>I still feel so bad about that and my own guilt will weigh on me for some time but that has nothing to do with whether I want my W back. Believe it or not it has made me realize moreso that this is without a doubt what I want ( my W back ) I now know I want no one else but her. <P>------------------<BR>Rutger......One day at a time.<P><BR>

I think, she is justifying entering the dating scene - because she is divorced in her mind, because she announced she was going to get one. Kind of frees her from the guilt because she doesn't feel accountable. <P>I'm not saying that this is correct thinking, but to understand where she is coming from - it might be an explanation of why she doesn't see dating as an affair. <P>To me, however - she is confused deeply still in this area - not completely resolved to "being divorced" or she wouldn't have said she felt like "poop" - on Saturday. So, while one part of her is saying to herself "I can date, I am getting divorced", the other part is saying "I better lie to Rutger about feeling like poop - because I don't want to have to explain and make this situation with him worse."<P>I think Izzy is correct, you are still in the game. And the main thing is - that her lovebank is empty - and you have an opportunity to fill it back up again. <P>Every woman is different, and all of us have different combinations of emotional needs. <P>Is it possible that you are working so hard at this - but not in the right ways? I mean, my husband says he is giving 25% extra in working in this relationship, and I feel like he isn't. But the point is, is that he is giving in an area that "doesn't count".<P>Have you determined what are her emotional needs? <P>My biggest need is honesty and conversation. I think I speak so many words to try and make myself understood - it bores my husband and he gets caught up in the jargon, and totally misses the point. Does your wife do this too? Sometimes communicating well is the easiest thing to do. Half of communicating is speaking, and the other half is listening. If your wife speaks 100 words to convey what you could've conveyed in 10, tells me that you could improve in communication in the most simplest way, shut up and listen!!!!!!!<P>Is that an area that you could do better?<P>

Tnt,<BR>I think every man on the planet could be a better listener and I would be in the front of the line. I have asked her to do the emotional needs questionare in the back of the book but so far she hasn't given me anything and I haven't persued it because I didn't want to pressure her. I gave her my copy of SAA more than a month ago and so far to my knowledge, she hasn't finished it.<P>Once again you have pointed out something I didn't see..... She is confused about her feeling divorced. I wish I could help her to see this but I'm sure she would percieve it badly.<P>------------------<BR>Rutger......One day at a time.<P><BR>

Rutger-<P>I heard a lot of confusion in her e-mail. Also, she might have told you about the date to see if you cared. I would have done something like that. The in control was that there was no sex. Gotta go. God bless

Rutger, if you want to save what you got you both have to stop seeing, dating, thinking of other sex partners. try to move back togther and do the c word ( communicate) if she will, try to make dates with her. good luck

Rutger,<BR>Dating is not a good idea, but sounds like she may have done it to see if she could move on. Sounds like by "uncomfortable" and crying and writing you that she may not be sure about leaving. Just my opinion, but try to listen and be a friend.

Rutger,<BR>Why don't you try "dating" her ?

Dreamer, mr.ed, lynn,<BR>Thank you for your responses. I agree that dating is not a good idea. I do not have any desire to date anyone but her. I am sticking to my guns now. I wish I had been stronger about 3 weeks ago but I was very weak and very lonely. Mix in a little alcohol and man what a mess...... <P>I still am unsure as to her motivation to date. I wish I knew what she is looking for by going out on a date. What ever it is I know I got it and I'm willin' to share it with her. ( Heck, I'll give all of it if she wants, I just need to know what "it" is )<P>I will try to listen to her when and if she talks to me. Plan A to the max. She knows that I want her back and she knows that I love her more than life itself. I hope that my love for her is enough to carry us both through this. I have my doubts, Her love bank is empty ( she said so ) I will try to fill it when she gives me a chance but those are few and far between. <P>I guess the fact that she is sharing this with me shows there may be a connection of somesort still. I don't know what her motivation behind that is either. Maybe someone I know saw her on her date and she figured she would tell me first. I don't know, My own insecurites are going nuts right now and my own imagination is my worst enemy.<P><P>------------------<BR>Rutger......One day at a time.<P><BR>