dazed, i feel for you, as I am in the same boat. It seems no matter how hard we work on rebuilding and wanting to save the marriage our WW's are just as determined to do the ooposite, to the point of going down a path that goes against everything they once stood for. In my situation I finally had to go plan B and forget her and live for myself and DD. It's the children that deserve stability and a strong foundation. By doing this i was able to reap the benifits , by getting off the insane merry go round. My WW may wake up one day, but it will be too late for me.
I pray for you and DD.

dazed...

I know I said this before and I may have been totally off base which is why you didn't respond. But I am going to say it one more time just to get it off my chest. It may be a farfetched idea but as a former WS, I think it makes a lot of sense.

When I went NC, I could feel the fog lifting. I think the fog was kept dense through some sort of control by the OW. She gave me the marital advice, she "confirmed" how awful my BW was, she "confirmed" how happy I would be with her. But when I was without that "control", I could start seeing reality slowly.

So, my idea is to ask her to take a short trip with you like two days. Take her somewhere that won't be in "public" which is something she wants to avoid. Take her somewhere you know she will have fun and it will be difficult for her to turn down. Tell her you are not taking her there to be heavy or do a lot of serious talking, just to be together. I don't know how you would convince her to go but I feel strongly that if she is away from the OM for more than 12 hours, it will be a good thing for you.

I am glad you talked to Harley. I have talked to him once and he helped me immensely. I have been thinking about you and your W so many times a day.

Do you go to church? Does she or did she? You need to be praying about this. Ask her to pray about it. Maybe even suggest you pray about it together.

Those are some hard suggestions and I agree that they may be "out there" in terms of reality. But just think about it. Try to think of some way to get her away from him for a couple of days. The fog will start to lift.

Hang in there buddy! You and your daughter (and your wife) are in my prayers.

SNT

I just got back from my law office.
I set in on a phone call with my lawyer and hers.
Apparently she feed her lawyer a big line of crap about our entire marrige, her safety around me, what she was asking for on the petetion, her little friendship not affair, and me as a out of control stalking husband that goes around threatening people.
I had my lawyer ask for full custody of daughter and nothing else from WW. No third party contact with daughter to keep OM from her.

WW's petetion aske for alimony, the house, me pay for mortgage, her car, personal belongings, 50 50 shared custody with some rotating Sunday crap.

WW called me a short time later crying and shaken saying, "you win". I don't know what she is talking about. She said, she would be here at lunch to discuss.
This should be another hour of torcher.

I hope that this means that your actions have placed so much stress on the A that now the OP is ready to give up and has told this to your WW...that 'you win' is exactly what my wife told me when this happened in our case.

Prayers are with you friend.

Stay on message!

In His arms.

Hold firm on your terms regarding your daughter. Really Really important right now!

Dazed -- I really thought I was going to be able to have an affair/no one would find out about it/I would slowly set the stage for the divorce/everyone would accept that we were just "not meant to be together"/I could introduce OM after a waiting period/my kids would accept him and we would live happily ever after.

(And I tried to accomplish all of this KNOWING that OM was really a yucky person -- just like your wife!!!! I know it seems insane now...)

Your exposure, the fact that your daughter wants nothing to do with OM, the fact that your daughter is angry with her -- this all means she's not going to get away with it.
Her fantasy is crashing. She's losing all control.

"you win" might mean that she is willing to give up custody of daughter. Don't be surprised. Anything is possible at this point.

I've got a lot more to say to you about her anger. It was exactly the same for me. It really made me angry that he finally changed. After I had already lost myself.

Dazed -- I went through EXTREME depression. I could not understand why EITHER one of them wanted me. I almost had myself convinced that my kids would be better off without me.

more later...

LEXXY----you just described my WW to a 'T" !!!! the affair, acceptance etc... My Ww once told me she felt she had lost her way. Didn't seem to matter that I was trying to be a lighthouse. Thank you for your perspective.
Dazed hang in there for your daughters sake. she will keep you straight.

and Dazed --
for your meeting with her.

Stay positive!
Be Strong.
Be Confident.

Those are all attractive.

Don't cry if at all possible. Don't get angry. She doesn't want to be reminded of your pain right now. She knows how badly she's hurt you. It will make her run away from you.

She doesn't trust your changes. She thinks things will go right back to how they used to be. You're only doing this to get her back -- like she's some kind of prize.

She thinks you can't be alone, thats why you want her back -- not for HER, but just because she fits the "wife" spot in your life.

She thinks you're only changing to win her back -- and she doesn't want you to do it for her -- because she is not willing to do anything for you.

She has convinced herself that things have been bad for years. That it was only a matter of time before you divorced anyway, it was just unfortunate timing that OM came into the picture so soon.

Stay strong!

And FYI -

Give her the message that you and daughter will be OK no matter what. She will sense you slipping away, and it will scare her.

She thinks she has an unlimited amount of time to go back and forth. She is very sure of you -- which I don't think is a good thing. She needs to know she can't play the back-and-forth game forever.

Let her know that Daughter is/will be your number 1 priority.

I hope this trip to the lawyer opened up your eyes at least a little. You are no longer dealing with your wife she is someone else now.

Talk softly and carry a big stick. Start paying attention before you are left without your daughter, without your wife and better yet turn over your paycheck to the OM.

If you don't protect yourself nobody will. The OM may be behind it but your wife is the one doing it. You should have seen this coming after he was worrying about her safety when she is with you. I wouldn't worry about the OM to much you did not take vows with him. You did take vows with your wife.

I caught my wife doing the same thing except I got all sorts of evidence before I did anything. My soon to be ex and OM were sending emails talking about getting half of everything and alimony and CS and my kids. I fought back very hard and boy does she regret what she did. She wants to come back to the marriage but I don't want her. When I look back she treated me like crap and I took it for all of those years I just want out. Now go figure she begs me to take her back and she misses me and our marriage. She was never happy with me I want her to move on and be happy. She tells me she was happy but she never showed it. She was a real bit** every year we were married.

If you lose your daughter and wife and assets to OM how are you going to feel. Look at this from your wifes point of view. In her mind she can get the alimony, the child and child support and she gets half your assets and a new man.

I know you are going to talk with her but she is a liar. For the love of god protect your child and your paycheck from her. If you think you feel bad now wait until you lose everything.

I wish you the best becuase I know you do not deserve this. Just another point of view.

Dazed

I think that it is now the time to start protecting yourself and your daughter.

Your W is gone for a while. In her place is a WW whom is under the control of her OM.

As I had feared she has already taken the offensive and painted you as a "stalker".

My first suggestion will be hard, but I think most on the board will agree with me. You need to stop the drive bys.

They are only rubbing salt into an open wound and are not helping you at all. These drive bys also give ammunition to WS & OM. If you continue WS or OM (or both) may get a restraining order. That will not look good in court or help protect yourself or DD.

WW has moved out and you can not watch over WW and DD. I would pick DD. She will need your love more than you could imagine right now. With the "papers" in play DD will fear the D is maybe REALLY happening. DD's world will further fall apart and she will need a strong center to cling to. YOU have to be that center.

I don't want this to be a complete downer of a post. I actually think that there is still some hope left. The Fact that she still "cares" for you is a good sign. But I think that would be a good idea to make her come to you for contact. She will have to go through you to see her daughter. That is when you can speak quietly with her.

I'll be keeping you in my thoughts tonight. I'll light the fireplace for you tonight and hope you have a good night.

Okay- On the phone just before lunch WW says "you win".
all sad and remorseful. By the time she got here at 1PM she was sad and angry with. Mad at me saying she was so careful of my feelings and went the extra mile to be fair and not serve me at work and not ask for anything other than daughter 50/50. Then you go and pull this on me. I thought I new you. I can't believe you are going to prove me an unfit mother and take my child. My lawyer said your lawyer told her that enough for you to prove it. Stuff like I have not provided anything to the marriage or our daughter all summer. I have not lived in the house consistanly all summer and last night I was with OM. I can not believe you. You said you cared about me. You don't care about me or love me. This is all just to get me back and hurt me...
I said, WW I love you. However, you filed for the divorce that I still do not want. Your papers did not match your claim. I was in formed that your papers that asked for the house, primary custody, me to pay for the house, and alimony was signed by you and notorized. There was no revied version to be filed. Maybe your lawyer did not make it clear what she was filing for you or your not being straight with me.
I can not in good faith trust OM around our daughter. I know you will be with him when daughter is there. As a husband my job is to protect you my wife. But you don't want me to do that now. However, as a father I have to protect my daughter. Right now I can not allow her to be hurt by him. I know you said you are moving into a house. However, you can not tell me that you will not have OM around daughter. I do not trust him. She says, why you don't know him. I said I know he has no character or respect for his wife, or my family. I will show him the same respect he shown us.
She says, and you even got a restraining order against him for you and daughter. I said, yes. That is for protection. She just got really mad. Told daughter that daddy thinks I'm a unfit mother and its not safe to be with me. I said, that is enough. Daughter you need to leave the room and go up stairs now. Daughter got mad, yelled at WW I don't want anything other than you two with me. Not just dad. I miss you and feel sad. Not just mom. I miss dad and feel sad. WW says, it can't be that way. Daughter jumps up and down yelling at her why does my feeling not count for anything. What did I do to you. WW says I thought you were getting her counseling? I told Daughter that you did nothing wrong. You are perfect in everyway. It is me and you mother that have done this. You are a wonderful girl. Please go up stairs for a bit..
I told WW that was really out of line and dam you for that.

WW says why do you make all the rules? Why do I have to do what you say and you be in control. I said, filing for a divorce was what you did. Not me. It is your choice to stay and reconsile or leave. I'm not doing anything than making daughter number 1 priority now. I love you, and care about you. I just think its best that daughter not be bounced around and she stay in her room, in her home, not exposed to him. She says okay, when you get a girl friend I'm filing a restraining order on her _ss. See you are trying to run everything... dam you...
I said, I'm just being a father. Then she says yeah now. I did everything for 12 years for that child. I worked so hard for her. Now none of that matters.. You can become super dad in two months and just take over? What about me. I said, you were the best mother in the world. I mean that. Simply great. Not a better story book mom than you. You were all that. No doudt.
Now things are not the same. She is not your priority now. You don't have a plan other than being with him. You say you have found a temporary house. We both know that is just until 60 days are up. Then where will you go? I know the plan is, he will be there.
Any way, you have never sleep a night alone, do you think you can now?
Right now for sure I feel it in yours and daughters best interest that she stay her and I provide for her. You can find you a place and your way knowing she is here and okay. She just got mad. "I want her too" I'm just suppose to give up on her and never be her mom again. Even drug users have there child. NOT ME... This is not fair.
I said, you can see her any time you want.
She got up and asked for daughter to come back down. With tears running she gave daughter a hug and kiss good bye and moved towards the door. I tried to hug her. She turned away. I put my hand on her shoulder and I told her I loved her. She said, no you don't. Daughter went back upstairs. WW tells me on the way out the door. You won't see me again. I'm going to find something to run my car into to end all this.
I called her work two hours later to make sure she was there. She was. I said, you okay? She said, don't you have a daughter to tend too, click.

It's now after 6PM. WW is probably over at OM's planning write now. I'm sure that she will be back soon and it won't be pretty.
I do still love her, but she is so fare gone... I expect her to be all charged up with OM toxic waste and be back soon.
I fear she will go back to her attourney and ask for it all now. You know that is OM's tact. Probably was mad at WW for throughing that down before. I'm sure he is saying all the "I told you he was bad" stuff.
I new she was going to lose it when I had my attourney ask for primary custody and RO the OM. I hope some day she will respect me for it.

Hi Dazed,

I am really feeling for you right now. It has got to be [email]He@#.[/email]

I agree with the poster telling you that this is not your wife doing this to you. The monster disguized as your wife is in charge now.

About the OM...He sounds like a real loser and a potential abuser. I fear for your wife's safety with him. What do you know about his past? Any arrests or assault charges? What does his wife say about his character? You are doing the right thing with the restraining order. Keep that a$$ away from your daughter. But you have to be very careful right now because she is already playing the abuse card on you. You have to portray yourself as the rock. You have to be as steady as possible so she doesn't have anything to throw at you that will take your dd out of your home and put her with him.

This [censored] has all the markers for a first class abuser. Your wife needs serious intense counseling. The suicide threat may have actually been real in her mind at the moment. She is suffering greatly and I don't think she sees any way out without going through worse pain. I wonder if she will consider going into counseling without pressure from you, or him, to continue any relationship. Maybe there is some kind of "carrot" you can dangle in front of her to encourage IC. Maybe it is something that the lawyers can force if need be. Does your lawyer know all the crap the OM is doing to her?

<<<hugs>>>
Loni

Dazed,

I have not posted directly to you, yet (just threadjacked you for a bit). Please go back and read your summary of this afternoon's conversation. I think if you do, you will see that your WW is now seeing what the consequences of her actions may very well be and doesn't like them very much. Keep up the pressure. You did the absolute perfect thing - both as a father and as a BS trying to recover the marriage. Keep your distance, make her experience what it will be like if she really goes through with the divorce. I know you are supposed to be in Plan A - I would suggest you only have contact with her when she contacts you. When that happens be sweet as pie. Otherwise, keep your distance - no drivebys, no calls to her work, no calls to her home or cell - nothing. Make her think you are moving on without her. That, coupled with not seeing your daughter everyday is really going to naw at her and, perhaps, in time make her come around. (I know this had a serious impact on my XH the first time he left DS and I and is affecting him, again, now even though we are D'd over almost 2 years).

One other thing. OM may be a real low-life, but your WW is the one who has made her choices - regardless of whether he is putting pressure on her. Your WW is an adult and is letting him influence her. Stop blaming OM and start realizing your WW is doing this all of her own accord.

Regards,

BB

gameplan dazed:
1)do a killer plan A...now and let WS come to you...go into B when harleys say TO DO IT! But I am thinking it is coming. Make sure WW is left with good taste...
2)spin the one doing the spin!: this means, turn OM 's actions against himself! You can lure WW back by saying that your attorneys are doing what is best...you're not a lawyer...you just said to protect DD from a guy who has a bad past! don't say what, and do NOT bad mouth him...let the sewer talk ccome from OM! When your attny and PI get dirt, you can say it's them doing it to ensure protection for dd if ww asks "why are you doing this to me?" say it's NOT ABOUT HER...it is about protecting your family. Always show her you're the strong sileng dad and husband...loving and yet tough but quiet.
3)realize she's manipulating you...she is manipulative to every man in her life now! Om and YOU. Do not let her do it. Remember carrot and stick.
4)make carrot and stick your daily mantra. Follow it to a T.
5)do not feel bad when the PI and attny get dirt on OM...get and make sure OMW has testimony and is ready to show that the OM is the perv you all know he is..and a control and cruel freak.
This is huge! it is part of the stick of plan A...part where EXPOSURE COMES DOWN LIKE A TSUNAMI! Full force of one! that combined with one heckuva carrot can be quite persuasive to ww ...and will make her rethink her position.
6)remember to journal. Your WW's words about "crashing and ending it all" is horrible.! It is not serious, it is threats meant to mentally injure and control. It is her way of manipulating you into signing what she wants. She is a fogged out woman who is running around acting like a little girl. She cries to get her way..from you and om. Think of her as a girl my son's age...crying and threatening to run away if you don't go to store and buy that darn expensive barbie dream house! She is right now...RIGHT NOW...and can improve if she comes home and commits to mental health counseling for this...fogged out and is mentally unstable (imho) and emotionally abusive to you and to DD. The attney needs to know this. AGain, she needs to see how OM (spin it to the OM side) has made her crack like this...see how we can do it?
7)she will crash by her own hand. make sure that you show nothing but love..even if advised to move to plan B.
Show the lighthouse
8)legal stuff: do NOT in writing whether letter or internet write that you caused her to have the affair. Do not say you were a neglectful H or a bad H. Do not give them bullets to fire back at you. Mortar said I believe to learn how to dodge them...soemthing like that. Do not let the abuse card sit. Do not follow, chase, beg, plead. You might also want to page Orchid and toomuchcoffee man...Orchid is queen of reverse babble and a MB champ! She lured her very very once fogged out WH back thru sharp wit and thinking each step of the way. That woman's cranium must be huge! I love that girl! And toomuchcoffeeman has good ideas..plus access the "divorcebusting 180" thread for tips on how to NOT APPEAR NEEDY TO WW.

Not appearing needy and attractive to WW is also part of carrot of A. Learn these tips!

9)STay sane. You already are WINNING B/C YOU KNOW THE GAME OF THE ENEMY! Enemy is WS and OP...not your W ok? THeir game is to spin the truth and make you look like a psyched out stalker and controlling H...and abusive! it is their only shot at the fantasy life and You are going to directly defy that plan thru thinking, love, and guts! Make it fail...make it so. Make it fail by being strong, sane, and calculating what to do.

Your WW plan...see daughter. See daughter and sneak in OM during night...and have OM leave before breakfast..my xh did that one...we caught him once though. And we had testimony from my fourand a half year old son that "OW was over last night and had breakfast with daddy the next morning"...the ow tried to say she left and came back immediately in the morning at 7 am on a saturday???wtf???

did the judge believe it? Heck no.

This is a good plan. Modify it to meet your needs. But these I feel in my heart are key. Ask Harleys what they think...

WW came home from work at 8:45 with food in hand.
G I wonder where she was for nearly 4 hours?? Any ideas?
Okay-
I did not want to let her in. Knowing Plan A when shes comes to me, plus daughter was setting right there. I opened the door. Helped her carry in the food. Cleared the table and we all three set and ate. Very peaceful, no words about relationships. I made small talk with her and was very friendly. While she ate her hands were noticably shaking like a drug addict needing the next hi. She stayed calm but I could she was "trying" very hard to keep her composure. Her voice was at times choked up.
Once done she started to clear the table like old times, then at once stopped and just stood there a few seconds and turned and went in the other room.

She is now on the couch sleeping. I brought her down her favorite pillow to lay on while bringing ones for me and D.

She refused it. I set it down next to her on the floor. After nearly ten minutes, she kicked off her shoes and sox, reached for the pillow and is now resting.

I know she is only here as a jesture for the courts. Daughter is very upset with her. WW tried to make some small talk with her, and daughter all but stone walled her.

To tell you the truth I did not expect to see WW tonight or atleast not hostile. I think she got her OM hi this evening and had just enough coaching to make it through the night here. His little plan of making her leave here to be with him last night really back fired on them in front of the attourneys today. Her attourney was really ready to argue with mine on the phone today until he said, "Do you know that she did not even stay in the home last night? She lied to her daughter about an overnight at a hotel, dumped her off with out even waking up the dad. And where do you suppose she was at?" WW's attourney started to back pedal real fast. Mine said, okay if she thinks this man is so dangerous and is worried about her safety. Why would she leave her 12 year old with him?
Let's face it. This woman can not stop seeing her boy friend just like she has done since this past spring. My client has worked so very hard to save this marriage. He retaned my service in the summer. He asked me to set by as he tried to reach her. She has done nothing but beat him with hammers as he has done nothing but dance around trying to not step on her toes.
Your client is woman cheating on her husband that still as I talk to you loves her. He has done nothing but try to protect his family. This woman has been neglecting him all year and been not of a mother or role model for there child. Because of all this they lost one kid already. (WW did not mention to her lawyer about giving up my the guardianship of my niece).
WW's lawyer got very quite.. Asked my lawyer for a copy of my expense list, and some notes.
Judging by reaction of WW, her attourney must have really got on her today.
The comment that WW's attourney said about me was painful.
The part of me not really being a father to my daughter and nothing more than a guy that came and went. I taught my daughter how to read, ride a bike, caught and through a ball, swim, play basket ball, paint, use power tools and wrenchs, etc. I coached her tee ball teams, softball, basketball team for years, assistant coached several other sports. I take her to and from school, dance class, leadership class, swim team all of which I pay for and researched and signed her up for, and do this every day.
My WW had never taken or picked up daughter from school since moving to this town. TWO YEARS. Just two days ago I asked WW to pick up daughter from school. She paused and asked where to go. YET SHE TELLS PEOPLE I WAS NO FATHER...
DAM HER....
As she sets down there right now head swurling of OM, and says and thinks I'm a selfish bad man that stalks her and was never any good for nothing.

Hey Dazed,
You’re an inspiration.
Your W is under the influence of the affaire, she is not herself and she is also miserable.

You are going thru what is probably the worst experience of your life. This is a good place to vent and much better than to LB her or OM or DD.

Look at your 3rd line from the bottom of your last post and think that over. You may want to edit that sentence.

Very respectfully and with humility,

Dan

HI DAZED,

I suggest you put a call in to Steve H. tomorrow....so VERY much has happened since you last talked to him....

It is Saturday so you might not be able to reach him....so here is another option... you may not like it ....but... think it over carefully....

I would take photos of every room in the house.....to protect your valuables and take any money, checks, jewelry.... anything you'd think WW would steal...or break.....

And I would take my DD away for the weekend....to a motel.... wherever.... contact the local police and make them aware of where you are staying so WW can't say you kidnapped DD.. They should allow this since you have a restraining order out and want to get your DD away from all this....

Tell your WW that you love her but things are getting a little to angry here and you need to clear your head and get DD away so she can calm down.... tell WW you will call her once a day to check on her.

I really think you need this DAZED.... forget what SHE will do....WE KNOW WHAT SHE WILL DO... (it may work in your favor) put it in God's hands... you're both getting too angry and the lawyers are fueling this....you are BOTH only going to LB (or worst) if you hang together this weekend.....

"She paused and asked where to go. YET SHE TELLS PEOPLE I WAS NO FATHER...
DAM HER...."
This statement worried me....this is why I'm telling you to get away for at LEAST a day or two....

HEY LEXXY.... WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THIS IDEA??

BROTHER.... you have done a great job with very few LBs... but you can't get into all this dialogue with WW while she is so angry... if she wants to talk.... tell her you will be glad to ONCE SHE HAS CALMED DOWN.... and if she crosses a line CALMLY get up and leave the room.... She's trying to bait you into a fight to JUSTIFY being mad at you....and you're falling for it a little.....

Go back and read LOSTVA'S post..... the WS will act MOST angry... MOST.... vindictive and MOST cruel when they are MOST thinking of the marriage not the affair.... Think about it.... IF SHE WAS SURE.... she would be VERY CALM and want to just not make waves so you would leave her alone...

Anyway.... you guys are in my Prayers as always.... Here's my email address.... qualitycanvas@hotmail.com ... If you email me I will give you my Phone number in case you need to talk it's easier than writing... let's talk... (I have unlimited Long Distance ...... GOD BLESS..... FRANK


..

I don't know guys about this whole thing. I think Dazed is doing a great job under the circumstances. But I think that his WW is on the cusp of major change. The reality of what she is doing is hitting her full force right now and I think that she has no choice but to come out of the fog. Her DD is barely speaking to her. The lawyer isn't telling her what she thought she would hear and that her delusions of having everything are disintegrating.

This might actually be a turn for the good. She is so miserable because she is being torn apart by what she thinks she can't live without (OM) and everything that she has known (her H and DD). I think IMHO that now is the time to plan A her butt off.

I'm no expert so feel free to blast my opinion on this one.
Loni

again dazed...the lawyers are doing what they are supposed to be doing...and unfortunately the divore business is what they do...and sounds like yours is pretty good!

If WW ever asks why "YOU"RE DOING this to HER" (which is again her spin and she's deflecting her involvement in this and saying she is blameless) say "well You're the one who filed...and I don't know what to do. I told the lawyer to protect our DD from this horrible mess"..again, YOU deflect her blaming you always ok?

She probably came back b/c the lawyer gave her a stern talk...that she cannot behave like this and expect court system to believe her.

Her house of cards is beginning to sway ok?

Keep loving, do plan A. Keep journaling too...how long she stays, what she does with daughter, etc. Courts need to see this.

And please let the lawyer try to get dirt on OM.

I am saying that I believe she will be home...she has to have her eyes opened right now. I do believe she is getting closer to the point where the fog has but no choice to clear. And she knows her home is a safe and loving place.

i am also with loni on this. I think she's nearing the end of some of the fog...but before the end, EXPECT this insane and irrational behavior period! it will be darkest before the dawn.

Keep going down same path. Carrot and stick...carrot and stick....and make sure the lawyer helps and aids with exposure of OM and unfortunately yes, of WW. Remember what carrot says...do the carrot big time! and remember what the stick part says...do the stick part big time! IF you wanted maximum impact, try making NO judgements or demands on your WW (like come home, stay with us, eat dinner with us) etc....let her do what she wants to do...and let it go on for a while...the OM has NOT had enough chance to LB enough with ww....you gotta let the idiot try to meet the needs, but see nothing. that he cannot do it. And then, in a short while, (week to three weeks) make sure the evidence on OM is prepeared and have attorney ready for an "offer" to Ww...make sure attorney does not say what offer is, but say that here is the deal...your ww is going to go down in flames in court BECAUSE OF OM...and that we can deal now or just fight this out...

It will make them shake in their shoes...ww will see that she has lost...and then is a good chance she will pack bags and come home.

it is when they are sitting at the edge of a great cliff...they BACKED THEMSELVES TO THAT LEDGE...valley is hundreds and hundreds of miles down. and then you are there, standing there, saying if you believe me, you can grab my hand and not fall down there.

it will be the moment the fog lifts.

and yes, there is more truth to this. if your lawyer DOES his part legally anyway, all this will come out anyway in court. so this is basically inavoidable. just know when time comes, your hand is outstretched to give her the choice to come home or to fall.

I think many more come home...but in case of a few ws here..such as my xh....they believe they'e james bond and have a parachute hidden in the back of their dinner jacket so they never really touch the dark valley below.

don't give over to mentality of the enemy. THE OM WANTS YOU TO FEEL YOU'VE LOST. tell that man heck no! it is what they want. they want you to roll over..they want you to just get it over with...let them have the fantasy and sign the papers the WW way...

that's also part of the opposing lawyer game. to put as much heat and pressure on the opposing party (you) so that their losing client (ww) gets to keep all the assets and live the fantasy.

again, drop the emotions now. we all kinda knew she'd do this...you did too deep down. just think. realize the dynamics of whatis actually happening, and you will find out that could make you feel pretty darn good about the position you find yourself in right now..despite the circumstances.

either way it is appearing that your dd will remain safe with you...and that's right now what the main focus is.

but continue with carrot and stick...and tell the lawyer to get the stuff on OM...build that tsunami wave...then expose him for the bottom dweller we all know he is.