Further, she knows she made a big mistake or she wouldn't be coming home so much, like she is. You must continue to offer her your hand and there will be a time when it must come with strict conditions to stay 100% away from the OM.

TS

am home sick...again..worse...bleech.

usually up for work by now...and checked in.

I hate to say this dazed...

but,

to me, this all seems rehearsed by ww. She is NOT making any changes to her A with OM. She is not saying anything about working on M. She is saying some things to string you along, and I guess since she brought up lawyer, she is trying to be at home more so she can have her lawyer say she is mostly at home now.

That is my .02 about this whole thing.

I would walk carefully right now.

What you are perceiving as her kindness and willingness to be home may very well be her lawyer's idea.

I judge people by their actions. If she wants to come home, she would leave the apartment and the OM. She'd ask to come home.

Your Lawyer did what he had to do...it is his job.

do NOT jeopardize DD by backing down!

Again, court is not LB. It is a form of exposure...it is truth. And yes, your lawyer did correct himself. She has been not a good mom ok dazed?

She is wanting this. For you to soften up. See that she's not so bad...even though she is sleeping at her apt...or she's not at her apt sleeping with the OM.

Please proceed ahead...but gently and remember to remove rose colored glasses. She is not repentant yet. Why? The "here dear let me help you..when you fall, please land on this giant cushion that I am holding out for you"...that's what's happening here.

I know she will be home soon. But it will not be out of anything but fog busting apart. And you gotta do that. The affair has to end. And it will when the sharp light of day hits it. May very well be the second courtroom date.

Be ready..she is very unstable still.

You can't stop protecting DD.

I totally agree with justpeachy here.

I also question whether this ability for wife to walk in and out of your DD life is healthy for DD. I would suggest you two establish some rules. I do not say this lightly: you are doing a good Plan A but you are also the guardian of your DD. You must balance your requirements for Plan A and the responsibilities you have towards DD. However I don’t see requirements like predefined times for meeting DD as a LB.

I have mixed thoughts and feelings about how to proceed with everything.
Of course she is cake eating Plan A style. Knowing the court date is a little over a week off and she is NOT living at home, I felt that the time spent at home is a good thing.

Here is a question for everyone that had WS's return...
Under what context did they return home...
1) Broken down and begging.
2) Running through the door shooting "Let's save our marriage"?
3) One step at a time back to finally agreeing to come home which lead to working on recovery...

For real here people.... I want to know how most waywards come home.....
This is my thoughts... It took WW many many small steps to leave our home and to file for divorce... Let's face it. It took OM to push her the last couple major steps...

The way I see it is that it may take many small steps for her to come back. The pressure applied is court taking everything from WW. Even then it is a mine feild that I must naviagate for her return and steps for commitment to our marriage.

Yes, I am a bit worried about the amount of time I have to do this come back in... D-Day was 9-6-05. I did not find MB until 9-27-05... I major LBed her 10-13-05 with an ultimatim to end affair or not come home... She moved in with OM... It was then that I finally started to get a hang of plan A... Doing much better with the last big LB coming when I caught them meeting in a parking lot for lunch late October early November... She filed for divorce the first time, two days after that LB. I believe that if I have LBed since then they have been minor..

So look at the time line here... Harley said, that the plan A, B, both start over after LBing... If you go by that rule I have a solid Plan A from early Nov. till Dec. 27th. ONLY TWO MONTHS with out a LB...
So now I am up against the clock of this divorce... The 60 day clock started just over a week ago... Now she is out of the house....
Now I have to run the entire home all by myself... Parent a 12 year old girl out of school on winter break that wants to spend time with a 16yo girl and her 14yo sister. Okay- but 16yo has a car and wants to take them places and go to the mall and movies...
I had to hold together Christmas for all of us... Through in now I am the one with the ball in my hands for the divorce custody deal which I have to meet with my lawyer again tomorrow...
Through in trying to save my wife and our marriage....
Oh and how could I forget... I need to pay bills now after spending money on IC's, Steve Harly, lawyers, Christmas, WW's car...
Finances right now are not so good either... I have not accepted money from WW in two months...
I wanted to sell off my racing equipment but that is risky now with divorce in process...
I still need to finish up WW's car repair..

Do I sound tired and stressed out... I feel like the entire world is on my shoulders right now and there is a dam clocking running for me to pull off the upset...

So, when WW comes around and wants to spend time with me... I will take it... I am not a man that is close to family and I do not have much of a support group. My family and WW family want to see us back together but they don't know how to help and frankly they hurt more than they help... Always have worked that way...

Yes, I am frustrated that WW has not ended her affair and came home... I dream about her calling me and asking for me to come get her or her walking in the door and asking for me to forgive her and help her save us...

I don't know how see will come home to me and I don't know if I should do anything right now to press... I feel like I need to back away and let her come to me... However, that approach is what lead me to losing her because she is so needy and wants to feel like someone wants her and needs her.

Stress, Pressure, and Time breaks ALL things down...

You tell me how these three key ingrediants work in my favor?
I dam sure feel them working on me...

Dazed,

Do nt have time right now for full response...but did want to say that without your wife ending the affair and coming hom, then you do not stop or suggest to extend the court date. Dont you do that. She has to stop it or want to stop it.

She knows you dont want to divorce. And another court date is going to hit her hard, and she knows it. That is reality smacking her in the face. Let it!

In His arms.

Dazed -- you are still meeting WW's EN's. Thats why she's around. She's got a patchwork of men filling different needs for her. You provide some, OM provides some. She's not going to alter that -- why would she?

So what you see as "movement", I see as maintaining her network. That is where Plan B becomes important. You take yourself out of the network, and now OM has to provide financial, domestic, and family support. Otherwise you stay in the network and have to be OK with OM providing sex, affection, etc. Are you OK with that????

You think you are damaging your Plan A because of the court proceedings. That is not true Dazed. You think by caving in on this issue, you will have perfected your Plan A? NO!

She is focused on this because it is the greatest source of her pain. If you remove this "pain" you will lose your leverage. And you will be enabling the affair and lengthening the time you must endure this.

Dazed -- this IS painful. Its supposed to be! If you take away her pain, what will be her incentive to CHANGE her course of action?????

LEXXXY / MM-- Good to hear from you two.... I hope you all had a great Christmas!!!

No I am not looking to cave in on the custody deal... It is just that i want the truth to be presented and not a manipulated version of it for her to use as an excuss......
I do feel that any lies in court does damage my plan A.

Yes, Lexxxy--- I feel that the EN's that WW comes to me for provides her strenght. Which I have wondered about in a way does enable her. It is the fun and fantasy that she wants from OM... You are right... The EN's he is providing and taking from her requires me her to come to me for my half of the EN's to keep her going. It is a tangled up mess....
You got me to thinking about this a while back... This is why my Plan A has shifted towards creating oppourtunities for me to meet other needs. I have tried to keep our conversations and time together focused on anything otehr than the emotional status of US talks...

Yes, It is very frustrating that she comes to me for EN's and then runs back over to OM for the others...NO I am not okay with him providing any needs of hers much less the affection.

For now with custody trial looming I believe I must stay in plan A... Plan B will work against me on two fronts.

So what is your take on this.... She needs to come over and be in the house and see the part of her life that she is loosing... She has said she is missing everything including me.

You know there is one thing that keeps coming up that I am not sure what to make of... It is her anger... She have a major anger issues...
Just 1 minute ago she called me wanting to talk... She just listed off about 30 things that she is "mad" about...

She just keeps playing the poor me card....How nothing is fair...
She had to pay utility deposit because nothing was in her name. (confirmation on that idea)..check
My lawyer is a [censored]...
Dazed is taking daughter...
Daughter comes to Dazed now for things instead mom.
Everyone blames her for this...
This ever happened..
She can't make her mind up.
etc. etc..

She said, that she starts thinking she wants to come home to me then she thinks about things that she did not like and then just gets angry at me and mad and then goes back to thinking oh well...
Here is what she called to grill me over now...
Why was the utilities only put in my name not hers?
Why did I open a new checking account with only my name on it.
Why does the two credit cards I have only have my name as writers.
Why is the phone bill only in my name.

I think these are loaded up questions from OM... She never in 13 years asked about this stuff... She never wanted to have anything to do with paying bills.. Ran from it... Used to say that is your job...

I simply told her sorry that I never knew that this stuff meant this much to you for all these years. Let's put them all out on a table in front of us and together share the responsibility. Just like everything else..

She says, so what about the checking account... It was you did not trust me thinking I was going to steel your money.
I said, WW... You former co-worker insulted me about our marriage issues when I went in there one day... Remember.... Also, combined with the fact we were out of checks I wanted to start a new account... She said, so did you ever get that apology letter from the bank... I said, no never seen it...
She said, okay if that is true... Why did you not put me on the account you opened and paid your lawyer with...
I said, simple... When I opened the account you would not commit to US...Until you stop seeing OM, there is no committment to us...

She said, well you let that lawyer lie about me... You did not protect me or do anything for me there did you... I said, okay I am sorry that you feel that way and I can tell that this means a lot to you... If you want to continue with lawyers lets agree to not let them say anything not of fact from here on out...
She said, this is why I only wanted one lawyer and me and you work out the details, but you would not do it saying you only discuss marriage and not divorce... I said, yes that it true and I still believe in us.
She said, well you hired a lawyer first didn't you... I asked you to get your money back from that guy and you did not do it so you must have been thinking divorce anyway... I said, WW. I told you I would get the money back and waited to two weeks to do so for you to commit to our marriage and stop seeing OM... You did not do it. I waited to get the money because of this... Then two days before the law office was to give my retainer back you filed for a divorce...
She said, this is the stuff swirling around in my head that makes me so mad when I think of you and coming home...
She had to go... Said she will call back later..

Why don't you let the lawyer do his job and stop being a doormat. Your wife does not have any consequences to her actions.

Wouldn't it be great if we could all just go screw other people when we felt like it and then go back to our spouses when we felt like it. And then blamed them for everything when we come back to talk to them.

The only bad thing in your Wifes life right now is the court date. Otherwise she has 2 men she can be with and her husband has no consequences when he is treated bad.

She could have divorced you without finding OM but she did not do that. You are training her right now so that even if she did come back she could always go out and find another OM becuase there is no consequences to her actions.

I am not sure why you think you are making progress? Why don't you demand if she wants things stopped that she come home and get rid of the OM and in return you can work on the marriage and stop all of the court action. You are enabling her affair right now. The only leverage you have right now is the court date.

Your wife is still with the OM. Your fear of doing what is needed will ultimatly cost you your wife. The longer you allow her to be with OM you stand the risk of her getting more attached to him.

Here is it in a nutshell her words to you:
"She said, well you let that lawyer lie about me... You did not protect me or do anything for me there did you"

Wow. She is in court nd she believes you should still do things for her? Protect her?

From what? From herself?

She is saying...DAZED YOU DID NOT ENABLE ME TO SHACK UP AND SLEEP WITH MY OM AND GET TO PLAY AROUND WITH OUR DD.

Your pattern is exactly as it was a few weeks back. She comes home...she puts head on your shoulder. She is nice..sometimes...but she still goes off to get SF and her OM fix always...and then gets mad at you BLAMING YOU for all of her self induced problems.

Except now she is LIVING IN AN APT.! Yea, not any longer under the roof for sleeping. She is sleeping with OM.

She is asking you Dazed to go easy on her. To enable her yet again. She is doing things in steps dazed...to get her way.

She holds the carrot over your head of coming home. Wow. A liar tells you she is coming home...yet her actions show she is NOT going to do that. Her recent talks seem to revolve around attorneys and court. Hmmm... to me that means she is wanting to get you to back off b/c she knows you'll hand her [censored] to her on a silver platter in court again. It is her only way out. To pretend yet again.

I am so sorry dazed. I truly see another side to this. Maybe it was because I saw it happen with my xh. He would be nice when he wanted his way then rage when he couldn't get it and when I would not back off.

She really expected you to cover her [censored] in court dazed. She really did.

You're gladly getting crumbs from the cake eater. She's eating the cake with OM. and all you get are crumbs right now.

Something needs to change b/c as lexxy put it...your feelings that something is "happening or moving" is not that...it is her covering her backside as court is looming and she is not prepared. HEr lawyer is probably trying to get her to spend more time with dd so it will look good in court. And he's probably saying to her "we don't look good..see if you can get him to back off".

If she were trying to come home...even in tiny steps...she would first agree to NC...stop seeing OM. Write the letter. Still live in apt...but slowly begin coming home...agreeing to a MC. But she has done NONE of it.

If you keep doing same thing over and over (like my favorite quote) you will keep seeing more of the same and nothing will change. You may see miniscule movement, as you call it. but it is not progress.

Sorry, this is a kindly swung 2x4

And still yet...WHAT ABOUT DD? WHAT ABOUT HER LIFE? She has had health issues and stress problems stemming from her mom's actions. And yet you seem to keep WW in forefront. Protecting dd is the focus now! DD sees mommy come and go and go sleep at night knowing she is not alone..is this healthy? Nah. Not at all.

Ahh....
[color:"red"] Wouldn't it be great if we could all just go screw other people when we felt like it and then go back to our spouses when we felt like it. And then blamed them for everything when we come back to talk to them. [/color]

I think you need to "tone" this down a bit... DAZED doesn't need this picture in his mind.... nor do most people....

DAZED you're doing GREAT... great plan A you are seeing GREAT progress as she was SURE she was leaving before... now.... she's home more than away....

Dazed,

I don't post much; however, I've been reading about your situation for about 4-6 weeks now. You are doing a great Plan A and that's what kept me so enthralled with your story. However, I really hate to say this, but I have to agree with most everyone who has posted their advice to you - she's using you and I actually feel sorry for you. You are so enabling her at this point. Like those more experienced posters before me, I believe she must hit rock bottom before she comes to her senses. I know it's difficult for you, but what are you afraid of? That if you don't Plan A forever, she'll leave you and DD for OM? Quite the contrary, I believe. He is OBVIOUSLY not meeting her needs and she's very aware of that or else she would've hightailed it to him sooner. She needs to stop "playing" you. She's taking advantage of your feelings at this point. I'm sorry if my unsolicited opinion is harsh, but perhaps you need to hear it again and again until it sinks in?


I don't see how you can control what either attorney says. You can state the truth to your attorney and they may distort it (intentionally or not) in their representation of what they perceive as your best interests. I've been through divorce once, Dazed, it gets ugly (and, mind you, none of us plans on that happening in the beginning). Sometimes, it's the rotten nasty progression of things in those situations.

I hope my post hasn't come across as harsh, but I do feel for you. This is my 2x4 to you. Please protect YOURSELF AND DD at this point. Your wife will follow. I do believe that.

Okay, I am going to wield the virtual 2x4 around a little, and I might hit a few other than Dazed in the process. If I do, please understand that I have been EXACTLY where Dazed is right now with his Plan A, his custody hearing, etc.

Dazed, first off...it is good to hear the reports of what your wife is doing or saying. It helps us understand where her head is and be able to help you. Now, the first swing...thwack!! Everytime you post about her mantra ("I'm angry because you changed, because lawyer lied, because things arent fair, blah, blah, blah..."), you ask the same questions here ("Why does she say this? Should I try something different? What does she mean by that? blah, blah, blah").

And what do we keep telling you? This is FOG talk!! It is NOT supposed to make sense!! Stop trying to make sense out of nonsense!! You say that this one thing is a deal killer, the one thing that is holding her back from coming home. Dazed...if you corrected that one thing, THERE WILL BE ANOTHER THING!! You need to understand this! That one thing isnt keeping her from coming home. I want yo uto listen VERY varefully right now because I want you to remember this everytime she goes into her mantra...the deal killer is that she is with the OM! The reason she cannot or hasnt come home is because she is engaged in an adulterous relationship with the OM! It has NOTHING to do with what you, or your lawyer, or what anyone else is doing or saying!

Without slapping myself too hard on the back, I believe that I have become an expert in fogese. And there is always things to be gleaned out of the fog talk. But the meaning that she is presenting is almost never the real issue.

When we say the word "fog," what does that word mean to you? In your mind, what do you see when someone says it is foggy outside? Could it be that vision is distorted by the fog, that things cannot be seen clearly? Could it be that things are distorted, or even look different in the fog?

What you think you see when she does things or says things almost always is not the real truth. It is HER truth, but it is not reality. She is making decisions and making judgments based on a warped reality...warped by the fog. Thgat is why most BSs will say that many times, their WS will say something, and they are just left there scratching their heads thinking "huh?!?!"

In the military, we have instruments that help us look thru the fog. One instrument we use is infrared. With that, we pick up heat signatures inside the fog, that help us see patterns, shapes, etc. Can we see completely clearly? No. But we can see enough to understand what is there and what is going on.

For you Dazed, you are going to have to put on your infrared glasses. Everytime something comes out of the fog, you are going to have to filter it thru those glasses. You are going to have to start with the supposition that whatever you just saw or heard is not the truth, that it is distorted by the fog. Then you take what you have learned here, and you filter it thru what you know about affairs, what you know about love and the love bank, ENs, love busters, etc. When you do that, you wont get the full detailed picture, but you will see enough to understand what is going on.

Okay...next.

The next 2x4 goes out to anyone that might be pressing Dazed to go to Plan B yet. Now, I love Plan B and any folks that have been on here long enough know this! But in Dazed's case, it is all about timing here.

Look what is happening. First reality is causing a lot of pain to his wife. She is sleeping on the floor in a cold apartment, no daughter, etc. Fantasyland has now turned into a house of horrors.

So what has been her response? Has she come home and ended the affair? Not yet. She has only begun the first step. And what, pray tell, is that first step??

For the first time in a long time, Mrs. Dazed is asking for and accepting Dazed's Plan A actions. She calls him to come home from fixing the car to be with her. She accepts presents, etc from him without much or any comment bu a "thanks."

You see, the first thing was to get her to notice the changes. She has done that. For weeks, we have all heard Dazed report on how is WW would comment on how it took this to change him. Notice that she has accepted the fact that he has changed!!

But an interesting shift has happened since court. She has begun to, instead of taking his changes and throw them back in his face, she has started to say things like:


She does not understand yet. She sees the changes, but she has yet to understand or have faith in them. But she is doing one thing...she is coming back for more. She is allowing hi mto change. She is allowing him to show her. She is now allowing him to Plan A. Even when she goes off and falls back into the fog, she calls a few hours later to apologize. Folks, she is beginning to get it!

Now, she isnt out of the woods yet. And yes, in a way, she is cake eating. But what she doesnt know is that she is being set up! As I said, I love Plan B. But a good Plan B is impossible without a good Plan A. What I see going on with Dazed right now is that he is depositing in the last week, $100 bills into her love bank on every interaction...without hardly any withdrawals. He is building up huge love reserves in her bank. Sure, he is probably in the negative. But he is fast approaching heading into the "black." And what does Dr. Harley say when that happens, hhhmmmmm?

He has a court case coming up. He cannot blow that. So, any attempt right now to go to Plan B will be used by her attorney to show him as a bad guy. He needs to maintain what he is doing for just a little longer. The month of January will not go out without either Mrs. Dazed coming home, or Dazed going to Plan B! And when he goes to Plan B, all of this time spent, and deposits made, will utterly destroy the fog in Plan B. The bottom that everyone wants her to hit (including me) will come with a thud...and the pain will be overwhelming! And NOTHING that the OM can do will fix that or make it all better.

For several reasons, he needs to stay in Plan A (a little modified, with him not pushing as hard as the past and not trying to pull her back or interact with her...just continue to be the new Dazed when she wants to come over or talk) until after court. If they go to court, and everything goes Dazed's way again...I would still wait maybe a week or two before going to Plan B. There will be the inevitable anger from her. But jsut as this last court date, that will subside and then reality will present itself. If he goes to Plan B right after court, he will appear i nthe fog to be everything she had made him into being...manipulative, not caring, doesnt love her, etc. Instead, he waits a week or so, and then goes to Plan B with the PBL and then waits for her to surrender.

I still have put some of my money on his wife not wanting to go to court again. That she just might end things with OM and come home right before court and try to stop things. If she doesnt, though...then Plan B should be initiated shortly after court.

As I ahve said, I have been where Dazed is now. With the court thing, etc. I think he needs to think strategically right now, watch his every step. What he is doing is working! And while she isnt home yet, almost no WSs come home in one moment. It is almost always a process, as they begin to try to get their brain to see reality again and to make sense of the world they now see.

Dazed, you are doing great! Please stop trying to accept what she says on face value. It almost always is not what she makes it out to be. Filter her talk and actions thru your MB "infrared." Hold fire, keep Plan Aing, but dont go after her...let her continue to try to interact with you. Keep yourself and daughter safe (did you get the RO against the OM yet). Make sure you are ready for court. Make sure you are ready for Plan B.

You are excited because you do see changes, which means you will want to force the issue. Dont do that! She will proceed at her own pace. All you can do is what you do.

Hold your fire and keep watching. I really dont think it will be long now before you see a white flag coming out of the fog, and your wife asking to surrender.

In His arms.

So you all are saying it is ultimatim time...
To reinforce what needs to be done and the steps that must be taken...
Example:
Stop divorce proceddings
1) Joint Agreement with saving marriage as focus.
2) No contact with OM for life.
3) Honest / open about everything.
4)


Email from WW:
I have been listening to the radio. Hoobastank's "The Reason" came on. It always makes me think of you. Like maybe that would be your song to me. It seems to say what you are always trying to say to me. It makes me sad & mad all at the same time.
D12 & her pals came by to see me. I had to hold back my tears of happiness. She is so beautiful.
I love her so much. I want so much for her to love me like she used to. She looks at me w/ shame in her eyes. It kills me. I am horrible. You make me feel like a horrible mother. Like I have been this total monster to her.


____________________________
The Reason Lyrics

I'm not a perfect person
There's many things I wish I didn't do
But I continue learning
I never meant to do those things to you
And so I have to say before I go
That I just want you to know

I've found a reason for me
To change who I used to be
A reason to start over new
and the reason is you

I'm sorry that I hurt you
It's something I must live with everyday
And all the pain I put you through
I wish that I could take it all away
And be the one who catches all your tears
Thats why i need you to hear

I've found a reason for me
To change who I used to be
A reason to start over new
and the reason is You [x4]

I'm not a perfect person
I never meant to do those things to you
And so I have to say before I go
That I just want you to know

I've found a reason for me
To change who I used to be
A reason to start over new
and the reason is you

I've found a reason to show
A side of me you didn't know
A reason for all that I do
And the reason is you

_____________________________________

No. I am NOT one of those saying this. And neither is Steve Harley. Read my previous post.

Oh, by the way...her sending you those lyrics reinforces what I was saying...she is trying to get it...she is trying to believe finally in your changes. Those lyrics speak to that. She is beginning to believe that change truly is possible.

In His arms.

Here’s my two pennies worth. Spades are shovels. Don’t read if you can’t handle that.

No, PH, Dazed needs exactly these pictures in his mind. This thing has been in limbo way too long. His wife is playing him, consciously or not, with the predator’s assistance and the pattern has to be broken so some kind of progress can be made.

She filed for divorce, PH! Bring that into the forefront of your mind. This woman is still having sex with another man, she isn’t home taking care of her daughter, and she wants to give that pervert access to her daughter. For God’s sake, it’s time to DO something. The circumstances have gone beyond Plan A. That’s no longer applicable. It isn’t going to work with a cake eater. Dazed MUST let his attorney deal with the legal problems before any work can be done on the relationship.

Actually, this marriage may be dead. Sometimes that happens. That’s okay. It’s not a sentence of death for the relationship. That can come back later when the wife isn’t scr3wing around and has her head on straight. For right now, Dazed MUST get past this legal action and encouraging a placating attitude toward his unfaithful wife isn’t productive in the least.

Mortarman-
I get you man....You put everything into the proper perspective... I think your right... Your sitch must have been almost the same as mine...

Yes, I am getting exceited... I am seeing what i think are signs of improvment by wanting to continue cake eating with me...
I am getting tired from all the stress.... That makes it harder for me to see threw fog... Make the light house bulb a bit dim at times I think..

Of course she is using me... What is new there... The thing is I have no balance in the love bank to write a check to stop it... The LB that OM has pulled recently has had to drop his balance done a bit as well. The only bullet she has left is picking on me about history that can not be changed only re-written.

I think we all agree she is going to have to hit bottom... We basically agree to disagree how she should hit and where I should be posistioned when she does.

Let's face it... I have to wait to Plan B anyway... The timing is all wrong for it today...

I do need to plan for tomorrow...That is the next hard part.

Peach and others I agree.. This is no time to wilt in the court room... It really is the only pressure point that I can deploy with out LBing.. I see it that way.

I am a bit tired... Venting here to get it out... Yes, that may make me seem a bit dazed and directionless... Please help me threw this friends... I really need all of you behind me for support... That is why I am here...

Yes it was.


Yes, and what you do know is that rest and peace are not far off. Either in reconciliation or in Plan B. So, pace yourself and keep moving.


You do have a balance. Think about it. If you have your relationship with the Lord, then you have all that you need! My sitch went on much longer than yours before we got to court. How did I make it that far? Certainly not on my own strength!! You have all the tools that you need. You jsut need to access them. Your love bank can be filled by the Lord while you wait for your wife. He is sufficient.


No, no, no!! That is the SIMPLE part!! You see, if you have several COAs (courses of action), then you will be prepared for anything. If you have one COA for your wife's immediate return, and one COA for your wife never returning, and one COA for your wife returning during Plan B...then you will not have to react to what life presents you. You will be prepared. And with preparedness comes peace and rest. Being prepared makes life so much simpler!!


You are on a 20 mile forced road march. This is mile 15. You are tired. And somewhere up ahead, peopel keep telling you the end is coming. But you dont quite see it yet. You just know that you have been marching for 15 miles.

Keep venting, that is fine. This is a marathon, not a sprint. Your marriage will nto recover fully in the next weeks or even months. It may take a few years to get there. Are you prepared for that? Recovery is not an easy road. it gets easier, but it is a slow, painstaking peocess, especially at first.

But it is worth it in the end.

In His arms.

I've got to throw my agreement in with MM on this one. She IS seeing the changes in Dazed now...even welcoming them as much as she's able to do so.

That does not mean she'll come back on her own yet. What it does mean is that his plan A is working like it's supposed to. And at the same time, the hope is that OM is being himself...which means that he's going to become more and more unattractive to WW in the process.

She's rapidly approaching that crisis that needs to happen to force a decision...and it's very likely that it will be the upcoming court date. Faced with the reality of losing Dazed AND their DD in one shot is going to be horrible on her. That shock might well be what she needs to yank her out of the fog...and/or hopefully OM will also contribute to it by how HE handles the outcome of all of that.

And if she DOESN'T come to her senses and see what's going on as a result of the court appearance, then plan B will come as a TOTAL shock to her system. Especially given how Dazed's plan A is now working like a charm...she's come back to RELYING on him again! And when faced with either losing that support completely, or staying with an OM who is turning out to more and more NOT be what she thought he was...Q.E.D.

I think that WHEN we get there, Dazed's plan B letter is going to be a LOT more loving and caring than many we've seen. It's going to stress how much he DOES love her and want her...but how it simply cannot be while she remains where she's at in things. And THAT will be the lighthouse beacon that she'll follow home.

Doing plan B now would be a tactical disaster. It would seriously undermine his case in court, it would negate his plan A efforts, and it would happen BEFORE his wife has gotten set up to completely rely on him for a large part of her EN's again.

I'm a lousy strategist...but a good tactican. I see the plan that MM's suggesting...and it's the best I can see at this point.

Here's my one other suggestion Dazed. MM has talked about this before...for every battle plan you draw up prior to contact with the enemy, you imagine for yourself how the enemy could react. And you create a sub-plan within that battle plan to deal with those contingencies. You need to start working through a lot of that. You know your wife better than we do...so, start thinking about what she's doing right now. And what she's going to do in the near future. And how she's going to react to the court date. What are some of the possible outcomes from the court date, and how will you deal with those if they arrive?

I a good battle plan, you'll actually direct the enemy's responses by ancticipating their reactions, and even steering them in the direction YOU want them to go by manipulating their choices.

You're going to have to do some similar planning.

If she comes home BEFORE court, how will you handle that situation? Will you drop the court date, let it proceed, what? What will you require from her in order to accept her back in the house?

If she comes home immediately after the court date, how will you handle THAT? What actions will you take then?

What are the possible outcomes of this upcoming court date anyway? What does your lawyer see as the likelihood for each? What's your plan for managing you and your daugther in each of those situations?

If you're forced to plan B...have you worked out how you'll implement plan B? Knowing that most WS's fight plan B HARD...how will you negate her efforts at undermining plan B?

There are a lot of things here you need to give some thought to. And from my own personal experience with what my wife and I went through, it's a LOT easier to work with a plan than it is to just wing it through things.

Oh, last thought. My wife was definitly a #3 on your list. She came home because OM told her not to come, and she had no place else to go. We spent the next few weeks of her withdrawl considering what our options were, even talking about seperating since she wasn't 'in love' with me anymore. But, I continued to be there for her, and slowly her walls came down, withdrawl faded, and all she knew was that the man she had loved for 17 years was still there for her...and OM sure wasn't.

longhorn [color:"red"] No, PH, Dazed needs exactly these pictures in his mind. [color:"green"]This thing has been in limbo way too long. [/color] This thing has been in limbo way too long. His wife is playing him, consciously or not, with the predator’s assistance and the pattern has to be broken so some kind of progress can be made.
[/color]

This thing has been in limbo way too long.???
DAZED is ONLY 2+ MONTHS into Plan "A"

If he had gone to Plan "B" when everyone told him to back in OCTOBER!!! This Marriage would be DOOMED... Like MM is saying OVER AND OVER the timing must be right...

Because.... Plan "A" restores love... it isn't being a "doormat" you have to be a VERY VERY STRONG person to Plan "A" and what IS plan "B" anyway?
What is different in Plan "B" than EVERYONE THAT DOESN'T "get it" does when their spouse cheats?

"GET OUT UNTIL YOU STOP THIS EVIL CRAP"

Oh.... that goes over really big a month after Dday.... here is the WS.. thinks she is in LOVE with another....and the SOB that ignored her and hurt her for a MUCH longer time... has the NERVE to THROW ME OUT NOW!!
It's really really simple folks...
NO LOVE DEPOSITS.....NO LOVE TO FONDLY REMEMBER..... NO MARRIAGE......BYE... BYE.....

So... most of the people here other than the ever wise MM just can't see the PROGRESS... from BEFORE DAZED started a GOOD plan "A" to NOW....
Go back and read this again... take notes this time.... he's winning his Wife back.. a LITTLE AT A TIME...
THAT... IS HOW IT HAPPENS...
Some people here have Plan "A"ed for YEARS... to get the CHANCE to restore their Marriages......

And.... do ANY of you know how HARD Plan "B" is on the BS???
DUH.... dazed do you know your WW is probably sleeping with the OM... DUH..... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> no S**T Is this a thought he needs in his head when he's trying to Plan "A"??????

Once again.... stop the filthy talk that WEAKENS DAZED and SUPPORT what he...and Steve Harley have chosen for a Plan to save his Marriage.... ENCOURAGE HIM....MAKE HIM STRONG....NOT WEAK.....keep your filthy thoughts to yourselves And if you don't understand the principals here... just lurk.....there is a innocent 12 year old girl's life at stake here........

(MM... IM THINK THAT WAS A 4X6 LOL)
<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

I am not one of those pushing for Plan B right now. And its not ultimatum time either. Neither can happen prior to court -- however, I think within a couple of weeks of court, its coming.

Until then, I think you need to re-focus your Plan A.

She's wearing you down. Don't you feel that?

She's venting on you about all the many many ways you have let her down. And subtly reminding you of how let down she will be if you lawyer goes after her again. (MANIPULATION!)

You need to disengage.

Let her go vent all over OM. Make every interaction she has with YOU be pleasant. When she wants to start whining, complaining, and guilt-tripping you -- END THE CALL.