Many here know my 2 year history ..I am no longer that weak crying BS. I am stronger, healthier person who has put up a huge wall from anymore WH pain. I have been moving on and making new friends etc. I have told WH I am looking for a house. I am not filing for D for the financial benefit to both of us..I only need to get away from the constant dysfunction.

TODAY...WH goes off on me again. He now sees that as he puts it - "You have moved on". He keeps screaming that at me and now I hear "I hate you - I hate that you have ruined my life and at 52 years old and I have to start over"..

WTF is he saying..I've been saying that for over a year..and he never heard ME..

He just keeps saying You have moved on and that he can't live like this. That since I want to be single and have built a life w/o him I need to move out. He is blaming me for everything and yet saying that the OW meant nothing to him- that if he wanted out he would have left by now. THat he only did this during the day that he was always home at nite..Yeah right. Does he forget that I lived there too and I saw what he was doing??? Is he running scared that I'm serious about leaving him? Did he think I would live w/his infidelities forever? That it didn't hurt me?? He says he never saw me cry..My God, I cried everday for an answer to this, I was a total wreck.

Is he only reacting becoz he does see that I can survive w/o him and he never thought I'd leave him??? Is the narcissist caving in?

He still won't commit to MC or IC - yet, he'll say things will never get better unless I take down the wall..he says he hasn't done anything for the past couple of months - but he hasn't stepped into the M either. He says that he won't kiss my A$$ - I didnt' want that I only wanted him to stop but deep down even if he has stopped for a couple of months I think it will happen again. I have to leave the wall up or I will become that weak, crying woman again and I can't do it again..I can't survive the pain..

What does he want from me - to be a doormat again to have a semi-open M????

Hugs

Tell him a story...

tell him about a man who meets an old friend out at lunch one day....
and he says to his friend...

Gosh you look really sad .....
are you OK

and his sad looking friend goes on to tell him a story about a friend of his that just died recently...
and how he really liked this friend..

how the guy that died was a nice guy...though he never really went anywhere much...
but still he was a nice guy....
but he never really did much outside of his home and work
but he was a nice guy
never really got to involved with things..
but still he was a very nice guy..
and now he's dead...
and he didn't understand what it means....why would such a nice guy like that just die...


and the friend that met him said...
yeah I know what you mean...I once lost a friend like you describe..

he was always there
never did much of anything
never did anything for anyone else really..

and I was sad when he died...

he was my goldfish...........

tell your husband you want a real marriage...not two goldfish swimming next to eachother in bowls.......

nah...don't tell him that it will make him crazy..

tell him you are sorry he feels bad..
tell him that you are no longer interested in living with someone who is not interested in working on the marriage...

and you have reached that point....
and are not turning back........

tell him you have no wall up...it is his wall that he built with his own hands...and continues to tend to with his refusal of counsel and real marital work...

then go out and buy him a goldfish so he won't be lonely...

ARK

ITHURTS,

LOONY TOONS!!

"" I hate that you have ruined my life and at 52 years old and I have to start over".. ""

He is the WH, correct? He is the one that did the dirty that changed your life forever, right?

He is still in contact with OW? Because it sounds like such far out fogbabble. He has no concept of what he has done to you, because it is all him, him, him.

He must take responsibility for his actions, and quit being the spoiled little selfish brat.

It is good you are moving on. Sounds like it can't be fast enough!!

""What does he want from me - to be a doormat again to have a semi-open M????""

And the answer to that is....YES!!!

He is not in control now, and it is killing him. He is the hysterical one now, whining and screaming.

k

Tell him you want the same things he does. This should work out beautifully!

You'll only date others during the "day" and still be home with him at night. You're really not doing anything different than he's done all these years.

He made the rules....you're just following them.

Ark, that was probably the best post I have ever read and I've been here for a long time.

***What does he want from me - to be a doormat again to have a semi-open M????***

Actually, yes, I'd say that's exactly what he wants. He's making a last-ditch, terrified, bullheaded effort to bully you right back into that arrangement.

Just tell him what Ark told you -- that the wall is the one HE put up with his secrets and lies, and that if your husband ever comes back maybe you'll talk about having a marriage with him.

There is no way to have a marriage with a guy who doesn't want to be married. What your WH really wants is to be a single guy who has a wife. (That's exactly what mine wants, too.) That's NOT the same thing as being married.

Good luck, and again, listen to Ark.
Mulan

Had to throw in my .02 as we have been correspoding a bit through our collective issues...

Your wholly dysfunctional WH is showing us all the BEST revenge ANY of us BS's could hope to achieve...

A life lived well...WITHOUT THEM IN IT!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I can't imagine the pain that causes to a narcissist who thinks the world revolves around them...

Ain't it sweet?

Now is not the time to get wobbly...keep on keepin' on! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

P.S. Any projected move-out date yet?...it couldn't be soon enough.

Ark - As usual great advise.

When I tell him this - he still blames me for the demise of our M. And then he tells me to MOVE OUT NOW...What are you waiting for????

Basically, I haven't found a house yet.


Actually, it is MY WALL..He did help me to build it - him and many MOW/OW, Yes, he built a wall around himself by holding me and himself in a M that lacked true intimacy. Rather than come to me for the intimacy he went elsewhere, then blamed me. I'll acccept 50% responsibility for not meeting his EN - but, ****** I never knew what they were..

We need MC - we need help..We both haven't a clue how to communicate to each other. Yet, he won't budge on getting help. He thinks taking baby steps towards our M is the way to go. We need giant steps to regain respect, love, trust, intimacy. We are way beyond baby steps. When he makes one step towards me, I take 10 backwards to shield myself from more lies, desception and hurt.

He's got sexual issues that he won't open up to. I point blank asked him last nite - why he can't have normal husband/wife sex w/me...All he could say is he doesn't know why - well, get to a frickin shrink and find out WHY..I'm not 200 lbs. a slob, etc. Yet, he doesn't have an answer...why can't he see he needs help??? doesn't he want to face the truth??

I asked him why he hasn't "moved on" he said - he hasn't been looking "seriously" for that..But, once I move out and we are D he will..Oh, so all he was looking for was a piece of A$$???? to fill his SN??? Typical emotionally empty talk here..Could it also be that I am good for him? That these many OW aren't the whole package - it takes 5 of them to replace 1 of me????

KRUSHT -

His still in contact with MANY OW. He feels justified since I have male friends that I talk to, meet for drinks. These are older man that I worked with for 20 flippin years. Not potential or former lovers. He knows all of them - yet, he throws them in my face.

That would be a start to fixing our M..But, he won't budge.All along he felt I'd never leave him, I had it too good..Now, I'm standing up for myself and I'm a B****..


Yes, and I have recently (see my post on the divorced,dating BB). stepped out. Not that I want to get bashed on the GQ board - but, I have emotionally and now physically left my M. I'm not in the "fog", love, etc. I needed to know that I was desirable, that sex can be "normal". I have the facts now and I won't let him blame me anymore. I didn't sleep with the first guy to flirt w/me.

Mulan:
Absolutely - It's worked a 1,000 times in the past - so he thought he could do it again. BUT - I've stood firm..more firm than ever. And that infuriates him.


Yes - I should tell him that and forget that I too built the wall. Really I don't think he wants a true M - I think he wants what he had before he got caught. A wife that took care of alot things, went along w/everything, etc. I don't think either of us know what a true loving nurturing M is..
.
Yep - it keeps all the OW under control.

WHNBS -
Nope - I just can't find the right house for me yet. WH says I can't buy anything until he speaks to "his attorney"..Oh, listen here buddy - I can and I will buy a house. I told him he'll own 1/2 of it - so what's the problem??? He told me to get an apt..WHY??? I have a house now - why should I live in an apt???? Why doesn't he get an apt???

Keith - I'm tired - so tired of this..Yet, I'm fighting to maintain my lifestyle - screw my M at this point.

I just don't want to fight anymore with him. I don't want him to shut me out one day then act like nothings wrong the next day..It's too much drama and dysfunction for me. I've played this game far too long. I think it's making him crazy that I pretty much don't give a damn anymore and that isnt' what he had in mind when this started. It just went too far..

He needs to be honest. I can honestly say that I do still have love in my heart for him - I just can't let it out..I can't be vunerable again. He will never be a monogamous kind of guy. So I have a choice - accept it- keep my lifestyle or move on...and live in a sexless M forever...at least for one of us..
I did ask him if he wanted to just forget all this and pretend it never happened and we would have an "open M"..No, he doesn't want that..He wants someone to "sit still" and give him attention. Maybe, I can't be what he wants either..

I just can't figure him out..

HUGS

I wanna try!

What does he want??? Babble needs deciphered....

"It was so much more fun for me when I was the one out having fun! I enjoyed knowing you were home waiting for me. It gave me a thrill to know that you'd put up with anything I did. You're no longer feeding my greedy ego. You're making me look bad.

You're not responding to my outburst, I'm begining to think you may not worship me they way you should, and this make me very angry. Me want ALL the cake. STOP EFFIN WITH MY CAKE, YOU WOMAN!!"

??

Did anyone hear that distinct sound?

The sound of that nail getting hit right on the head!!!!

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

That's part of what I see too..I'm looking way to happy, confident, have a care less who you screw attitude, and don't include him in any of my plans. I don't even bother to check on him anymore..And he knows this.

It's all about the chase w/him..
Last Friday -he threatens to burn all my clothes, etc. 3 days later it's like it never happened..He say that he threats meant nothing to me. Yes, I cried and was upset but I still went out of town w/o him. He thought he could bully me into no going..Suprise...I didn't back down this time...

WHNBS - Yep..He sees the one "real" person in his life is "moving on" w/o him. Unfortunetely, he doesn't know how to fix this..He's been calling my cell, being nice, etc. and I'm keeping the wall up. I'm cordial that's it..

I'm wobbling alittle that's why I posted this ???..I want a "real" husband. I don't want him to want me because he sees me drifting away and has to suck me back in for his own financial benefit or for his control freak fix.

I want him to want me because I am his best choice in life.

Hugs

I told my H to stop bullying me. He looked surprised - but stopped maybe your should try this. I still use this as his old habits flare up from time to time.

I remember Gimble telling me in June that all affairs occurr for one of two reasons...EN's not being met and issues of character.

I am voting with the (lack of) character for your serial WH.

- You and he were affair partners...he learned it was OK
- You have stayed with him while he KNOWS that you know about his numerous A's

What is his motivation to change other than he's losing the woman he HAD under his control?

He doesn't want to WORK at anything...he just wants the status quo (you at home...waiting for him while he bangs any willing bimbo's he can find).

Like I said before and it bears repeating...PLEASE don't start getting "wobbly" at this point. I assure you...he is manipulating you AGAIN!!!!

Whatever "efforts" (TM's, call, etc) he's making will NOT fix the REAL problem...his (lack of) character.

My .02...get an apartment now and get out of his "reach". Yeah, I know it isn't a house, but it will be YOURS and you can always get a house later.

I think you are better served, at this point, avoiding your toxic WH at all costs and that is hard to do when you live together.

Hope this doesn't come off as harsh, but he's up to his old tricks again...

{{{{{{ITHURTS}}}}}}}}}}}

WNB

WHNBS - I wish I knew for SURE - WITHOUT A DOUBT...If it was EN that I wasn't meeting or a character flaw. It would make all this crap so much easier to digest then throw up....Since I do know that he had A's w/other MOW before he even met me - I want to lean towards a flawed character. But, I didn't know these secrets until 9 years into our M. I know that while he was cheating on me he was seeing more than 1 OP at a time - bet they didn't know that though..

I know I wasn't meeting all his EN - but, he wasn't meeting mine either. He wasn't meeting my SN either - nor did he
want too. The EN I did fill for him was an attractive, smart, classy wife.


Funny, that's the exact words I'd use.hahhaha

I know you are sooooo right.it's just so much easier to be cordial than to fight w/him. Yet, if I'm nice/cordial he thinks "he's in" and that I've accepted all this crap.

I wish I had the [email]b@LLs[/email] to do that..I don't, really I don't. A house would be roots for me - and I'm use to a house - I HATE CHANGE..I'd be depressed in an apt. I need my space and privacy.


That's why I try to avoid him at home. I go to the barn at nite, go to dinner/drinks to get away and have peace. Don't forget I have to work w/him - he'll never give me peace, unless I D him and my attorney says don't do it yet..



Honey - I need a swift kick in the butt...I don't take your comments as harsh at all. I need a reality check now and then becoz I live in a flippin fantasyland.

I don't want to be a B****, and that's how he views me, but he created this. He brought out the worst in me..

I'm very torn - since now that I have found that I am alive again how can I give up that freedom for a life of dysfunction w/a man that can't be open/honest/sexual w/me???

I wanted a M for so long and now that I've tasted freedom I like it...I like the way it feels - no screaming, no feelings of insecurity..no feelings of being compared to other women..no wondering if someone I'm sitting next to is s#$#@ing my WH..This isn't fog talk - I know the difference since I was a WS years ago..I don't feel that way..at all..

HUGS and Thank You for being my cyber buddy....

Now you know. Come on.


And your NOT depressed now? You say you hate change, but he's been sleeping around your whole marriage and you want THAT to change? I'm confused.


When does the lawyer say you can start living, again?


Why are you torn? [color:"blue"]Really BAD vs. Possiblity for Good[/color]

Sounds like an easy decision. Not an easy plan, but an easy choice... - Dru

I know I am a few laps ahead of you in the D department and I don't come here too much anymore, but I want to help see you through your crisis as we have gotten to be friends (as much as the Internet allows!) Ha Ha

He has never even seriously comtemplated attending MC with you...he knows you were in pain (over his A's) and he did NOTHING to make it right.

Has he expressed any desire to change for the better?...NO

What will change if you listen to him?....NOTHING.

Will your EN/SN's ever be met by him?...NO

Do you want your SN's met by him?...NO, the risk of STD's because of his "hound-doggin" is too high, IMHO.

I cannot see ONE positive to staying with him, other than avoiding the short and sharp transitional pain of moving out and divorce.

You don't have to be cordial to him, treat him like a stranger...cautiously friendly, but guarded.

Don't make a self-fulfilling prophecy about being depressed if you had to live in an apartment. It may come to a point where moving out at ANY cost is a better option. Should it come to that (the apartment), think of it as cancer treatment...chemo is NO fun, but the results can be amazing! I really want my own house too, but the apt is adequate for now...it's nice, but I have my eye on the goal of home ownership too.

Do you actually work WITH him...meaning consistent regular contact or is it sporadic during the day? Keep it as a "business only" relatioship at work...refuse to talk about anything other than work with him.

I tell my kids sometimes that Life may only give you the choice between "bad and "worse" and you have to pick. You've gotta pick...

I have NO doubt you are a smart, classy and attractive woman...why would such a lady even be thinking about staying with that "himbo" of a WH?

I think you deserve better and you just need to push through the pain and FREE yourself!

One last thing...has you attorney given you a real PLAN or timeline on WHEN to D? I know that finances can postpone things, but she has to have a real plan for you to wholly extricate (divorce) yourself from WH.

{{{{{{{{{{{ITHURTS}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}

Keep on keepin' on! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

WNB