Married over 20 years with 3 beautiful kids. My "wife" is emotionally leaving the marriage. She said she can't leave me because it is against her religion, but would prefer that I left. During our marriage, she often puts me down (doesn't know why she married me, saying she wants a divorce, saying she is emotionally leaving the marriage, calling me names in front on the kids, turns me down when I ask her out, etc etc.)

She no longer wants to kiss because she is afraid of germs, sex is a quickie once or twice a year, she has never said she loves me (and never says it to the kids), when I kiss her and say good night or good morning she won't even turn around or say anything. I came home early on our anniversary with flowers. She was on the phone and walked over to a corner and wouldn't even look at me.

I'm still showing her affection (kisses, notes, flowers, poems, etc), but never get anything back. My heart is on empty. She was a SAHM but is going back to school. She loves to shop and always needs the lastest car and a huge house. She doesn't know why I'm so concerned about our marriage. She said I need to be put myself more into my job and that I should be happy that she cooks for me and raises my kids.

I'm staying around because I do love and care for her and because the kids need SOMEONE to show them love. But I don't know how long I can hold up.

How long do people stay together for the kids and is there any hope for improvement after the kids are gone?

Maybe I just need to develop a steel heart.

Stay Together single choice

keep trying (38%, 6 Votes)

leave now (50%, 8 Votes)

wait til kids are gone (13%, 2 Votes)

wait til kids are in high school (0%, 0 Votes)

Total Votes: 16 Voting on this poll ends: 10/27/05 05:21 PM

Any Hope single choice

No (50%, 8 Votes)

Yes (50%, 8 Votes)

Total Votes: 16 Voting on this poll ends: 10/27/05 05:21 PM

do you suspect her being with another man? have you suggested counceling? Did she say she wants a divorce?

I've been in counseling for 6 months. I've asked her to go but she says we don't have a problem and I'm the only one that needs help.

She said she wanted a divorce several times, but never goes through with it. Now she says she can't divorce because of her religion.

She had an emotional affair before, she has flirted in front of me, she has told me little lies before. She now spends so much time on the kids, with her church, with her girl friends, and classes, and work, and house plans, that I don't think she has the time. I think her religion also prevents that.

Wow. I thought my problems were bad. Grow some testicles, man! You don't deserve any of this. Life is way too short to put up with that crap.

Is there anything about you that she has complained about?

Yes, here's a list:

Conversation-I'm very quiet, but enjoy conversation and am a very good listener. But she only wants to talk about her new house and otherwise can't sit down with me and just talk. She will talk to the lawn care guy for an hour, but has trouble saying hi to me. I've asked her to spend 15 minutes together alone to just talk, and she starts yelling about how selfish I am. Now I just make sure I've got some topics to discuss before I come home and try to start a conversation as soon as I get home.

Affection-she says I don't show her enough. I used to go on affection kicks: candle light dinners, touching, kissing, notes, flowers,.... After a few weeks without her even acknowledging them, I would quit again for a while. Now I'm just doing it constantly every day. I love to show affection and miss holding her, but it's hard when she is always pulling away.

Lust-She gets very upset when I spend time talking to other women (like relatives, neighbors, people at work...) She thinks I am lusting after them. She gets upset that I even look at other women. She thinks I was going on dating websites looks for other women. Whenever a dating site spam window would open up, she thought it was because I was using them.

Porn-I used to look at porn, but threw it all away about 8 years ago. She used to watch it with me (that was one of the few things that got her in the mood), but since she got more religious she wants nothing to do with it.

I keep trying, but nothing seems to make things better.

She's emotionally leaving the marriage, doesn't love you, shouldn't have married you, etc., etc., etc. So.....

'Affection-she says I don't show her enough"

So, why does she care? How can she expect any affection at all the way she's behaving?

"Lust-She gets very upset when I spend time talking to other women"

So, why does she care? She's emotionally left, which means she's abdicated her responsibility as a wife. Spiritually, she is no longer your wife. She's not having sex with you. Even if you are lusting after other women, it's no longer any of her business.

"Porn-I used to look at porn, but threw it all away about 8 years ago."

So, why does she care? What you did eight years ago has nothing to do with the here and now. Her newfound "religion" is false. If what you say is true, she isn't practicing any religion I have ever heard of.

Your wife is doing everything in her power to push you away and make you leave her. She's finished, but she's a coward, who is hiding behind "religion." I suspect there's another man (probably a very "religious" man) in her life. Stop trying. Nothing you can do is going to make a difference.

You should tolerate her behavior for about, oh, maybe 10 more seconds.

I guess I'm trying to be understanding because my wife has been through a lot in the last 8 years. We had three kids within 13 months, she had breast cancer (had one removed and decided to keep just one), had major depression after the kids were born, and had almost no friends.

Now she has made a lot of friends through the kids and is enjoying that for the first time.


We had several very good years together (Pocono's, Niagara Falls, Orlando, slow train ride across the country,...), some very intimate times (X-rated drive in, hot-tub fun, ...), we are both VERY good with the kids, and she was my closest friend. I guess I'm hoping if I can keep things going on my end and her life settles down, maybe there is a chance she will want to come back to me emotionally.

Has anyone had that actually work for them?

All those "problems" (they are also called life) and you stood by her. This is the thanks you get? So what's changed that she'd cast aside the man with whom she's built a life?

Hope won't make it. You can ride this out and wait, but you're going to need more than hope. You are going to need your wife to give you an explanation of this sudden change. Don't expect it, though. I suspect that one of those new "friends" is a man, who is more than a friend. She's already been down this road before and even rubbed your nose in it. Cheating is like alcoholism; you can't "cure" yourself without getting to the root of the problem.

For you to say that "maybe there is a chance she will want to come back to me emotionally" suggests that there is a reason for her to have emotionally abandoned you in the first place. If that is the case, what is it you have done and what can you do to correct it. See? ACTION not HOPE. If there is no reason for her to have abandoned, what motivation would there ever be for her to return? If she threw you aside for no reason whatsoever, how will you ever be able to trust her with your heart again?

She started emotionally leaving over 15 years ago. Things would seem OK for months and then she would lay a bomb on me. The bombs started coming more often, and in the last year or two there has been massive shock and awe attacks.

So I don't think it is a specific guy friend. I think she just thinks she could do better. I think she vents about me to her new girl friends. They probably validate her concerns about me and tell her she deserves better than me.

I think the main issue is that I'm not outgoing enough for her. When we used to go places that had lots of friendly alpha males socializing, she would get real upset and ask why I couldn't be like that. The neighbor guys were always nicer than me, other guys at dances always had more friends to talk to, I was never the happy outgoing jokester at social gatherings. I think that is what she really wants. I can only do so much at improving myself in that area.

I am starting to wonder why she hasn't left yet and why I haven't left yet. Right now I am only staying for the kids, because I think they would die if I wasn't there every day. I think I would also die if I had to be separated from them.

Been leaving for 15 years. Now she's gone on campaign to escalate it. May I ask your wife's age?

"I think the main issue is that I'm not outgoing enough for her. When we used to go places that had lots of friendly alpha males socializing, she would get real upset and ask why I couldn't be like that. The neighbor guys were always nicer than me, other guys at dances always had more friends to talk to, I was never the happy outgoing jokester at social gatherings. I think that is what she really wants. I can only do so much at improving myself in that area."

This is pure bunk. You are the man she married. She didn't realize that she preferred outgoing, more gregarious men before she said "I do?" In any event, you never have the right to demand that someone attempt to change their personality to maky you happy. Personality is immutable and cannot be changed. Unless she is emotionally retarded, she understands this, so we must conclude that this entire line of thinking is nothing more than rationalization, and rather childish rationalization at that. It makes her feel better to make it all your fault, when the truth is, she's a failure as a wife. What she is doing is breaking her marriage vow, a vow she swore before God. Ask her how she's squaring this with her "religion" and with God.

Well, she's told you why she hasn't left, but we know that that is a lie, don't we? My ex tried to make me be the one to go for a divorce. That way she could tell all her family and friends how I'd tossed her aside, thown our marriage away. I refused, so evenually, she had to do it. And I never let her off the hook for this. To this day I will tell her that the divorce was all hers and had nothing to do with me. Her divorce was a betrayal and I will never change my mind on this point. So if she wants out so badly, tell her to go. But the kids stay with you and you will never acknowledge anything other than she is a failure as a woman, wife and mother.

My wife is 47 and I'm 48. Maybe it's a mid-life crisis.

If I thought she and the kids would be better off without me, I would gladly leave. As long as I was still closely connected to the kids, I think I would be happier. If she wants to save face by making me the bad guy, that is her problem. I'd still know the truth and be able to sleep well at night.

I have told her if she wants to go that is her choice, and I'd even help her move, but that I'd prefer to work out our problems. But I think she is too comfortable with the life I've created for her.

One funny thing she said during one of her rants was that it would be OK if I lived across the street from her so I could spend a lot of time with the kids. She said she could even set me up with a new wife if I didn't want to be alone. What do you make of that?

I don't think I'd ever see my wife as a failure as a woman or mother. She doesn't show the kids much affection, but she is very good in other ways. She is also a very good cook and housekeeper. And about once a year the sex used to be fantastic.

I'm sorry your marriage ended so bad. Did you have similar issues with your wife? Don't you think you were at least partly responsible for the divorce?

Woemen don't have MLC in the way men do. But they have something similar. In the fifth decade, women very often begin to feel unsatisfied with their lives. They often develop a strong desire to be independent. It has been theorized that this is the reason the divorce rate for women in their 40s is higher than any other age group.

There were similarities in that my wife suddenly turned cold and unaffectionate to me for no apparent reason. I suspect this was about the time she started her EA with her OM, but I have no proof of that.

Was I at least partly responsible for the divorce? Absolutely not! When my W and I went into therapy, she leveled numerous "charges" against me. Some of these were not baseless. For example, she had previously complained that I was too caught up in my work, exhausted all the time, too frequently grumpy and disagreeable after a long day at the office. She was right. I heard her and I made changes more than a year before she leveled the accusation to the therapist. But most of them were basesless and the T told her that they were trivial and easily fixed by two intelligent people who communicated as effectively as we did (coomunication was never an issue between us). She asked my wife why she'd always been able to deal with these minor marital issues, but suddenly could not -- what had changed recently that would allow minor problems to put her marriage in jeopardy? The answer: you're having an affair. She told my wife she was fishing for justification for her affair.

My wife knew from the time the affair was exposed that I had no intention of divorcing her, but that I did demand that she end her relationship with her OM forever. All she had to do was let him go and I'd give her whatever time she needed to recover. What I would not do is shoulder the guilt of her infidelity for her. I was told that my demand was unreasonable, domineering, controlling and abusive. At first I was shocked about this, but then I learned she was participating in an online "support" forum for women who were cheating on their husbands. I checked it out and found that one woman had given this advice to my wife: "Your husband is abusing you!!! He has no right to dictate to you who you can and can't have sex with. Just because he's your husband doesn't mean he owns you. Women aren't slaves anymore. Dump that chauvinistic ******!" While she was participating in that poison factory, I was reading here.

So, no, I am in no way responsible for my ex-wife's divorce. That is her failure, not mine. I'm not bitter about this (as one or two people here have concluded) and I have forgiven my her. We are on very cordial terms now, though we haven't had much contact of late. But I won't take responisbility for a divorce I had nothing to do with and for which I did nothing to warrant.

Wow, it does sound like you tried to correct things but she had no desire to try. Sounds like she just gave up.

It does sound similar to what my wife is doing. She has been getting more independent. She got her own credit card, she now drives whenever we go somewhere together (I always drove before), she gets mad when I try to help her around the house, she took on all of the aspects of building a new house, went back to school, got a new job...Maybe she is also looking for a new husband.

I'm starting to feel used. It seems she only keeps me around because the kids adore me, and I bring home a big paycheck.

Did you find things better for you after she left?

Wow, I can't believe they have support groups for people having affairs. Why do they need support? To help them have a better affair?

Unbelievable!

Gave up? No, she didn't give up, she threw me and our marriage away for another man. There's a big difference. I was in the way. The cheater's fog is a strange place.

You're just starting to feel used? Your wife has emotionally divorced you, yet she stays around and continues to benefit from being married to you. You are being used.

"Did you find things better for you after she left?"

The answer to this question is multifaceted. My wife spent about eight months trying to get me to be the one to file for divorce. She turned everything into an argument. And I mean everything. She deliberately made my life a living ******. She would go off in the afternoon to some hotel or the other to spend time with her OM. She decided to go for an "in-house" seperation about five months before she filed for divorce. All the while, I had to act as if nothing was wrong at work. It took it's toll on me, though. I lost 35 pounds, wasn't sleeping well, and fighting depression - all on top of the near nighly battles. So, yes, once she was gone, things did get better for me.

But that's only one side of it. I loved my wife with all my heart. Not the raving maniac cheater she became, but the woman I married. While I was better off three months after she left than I was three months before, I certainly wasn't better off than I was five years ago, when we had a strong marriage -- the kind others envy. I understood that she didn't intend to have an affair and that she was manipulated into it by this sorry excuse of a man. He was also married and he was having affairs with three other women beside my wife (she didn't know this and wouldn't believe me when I told her). He deliberately drove a wedge in between us. I knew this, but was powerless to make her see the truth through the fog. So, I was afraid for her. I knew that she was thowing it all away for a liar, who would hurt her badly. I wanted to protect her. All I got for my efforts was her contempt. So after she was gone, I had to come to terms with all this and let her go without growing to hate her and without becoming bitter.

Now I am happy and at peace. So utimately I am better now that she is gone. Though I would still rather have her with me, with things the way they once were. That will never be, so I have moved on. How does one gauge what is "better" in such situations, since everything is relative?

B-I-N-G-O!!!

Write: "Thou Shalt Not Commit Adultry, hypocrite" on a piece of paper. Photocopy it a zillion times and post the papers everywhere she will see them.

But I don't know for sure there is adultry. Maybe if I had some hard evidence first, I would do that. But that would surely lead to the big D. At least now there is some (but small) hope of saving the marriage.

Her having sex with another man is immaterial. You say that she's made a lot of friends and some of them are men. She's looking to them to get EMs met and that is by definition an emotional affair. She has shut down emotionally to ypu, which is a betrayal of your marriage. We do not know that she's having an affair, but her behavior is almost text book of that of someone doing so.

You should not be tolerating her behavior. You say that there is a small hope of saving your marriage. What marriage? I don't think you understand. She has already emotionally divorced you. Once a woman does that, she won't turn back. She's finished. If she doesn't have a man in her life now, she is definitely looking and she will have one soon enought. There are plenty of men out there ready to hook up with a married woman.

HeartOne,

What have you been doing for yourself? Are you a man of Christian faith? If you have ever felt any tingle of the Holy Spirit, then I encourage you to seek it out and embrace it ASAP. Start by reading Philippians 4:10 and keep reading everything from the bible relating to strength. If you're not a Christian then please excuse me, I don't mean to push it on anyone, but my faith in God has been my only consistent source of strength in my current situation.

If you are struggling with hope, I suggest you free yourself from it. Hope is a condition and depends on someone elses efforts. Focus on something immovable. If you have faith in any religion, then focus on it and the related teachings regarding the eternal love of your creator. She cannot take that away from you. So, instead of hoping or praying that your marriage works out, have faith that the right thing will come of this. She is tearing you apart. You sound honest and kind. You do not deserve her cold heartedness. But you will be rewarded for your pain and sacrifice. If your marriage must end, forgive her and fight your bitterness, learn and find a better love.

One thing is for certain. If you learn more about your wife's "religion", you'll be able to disable her ability to use it as a defense. Does her fellow churchgoers know she's married? Have you thought about suggesting religious marriage counseling at her church? Go to church with her. Show her and her congregation that you are loving, supporting, and participating in her faith. In the event that she's involved with/or interested in someone at church, you may be able to disrupt that interference with nothing more than your presence.

May you be blessed,
Tx