I've been married 15 years, two kids. My H is a conflict avoider with passive aggressiveness sprinkled in.

I figured out about a year ago, that of he is mad about something I did or didn't do, he won't tell me. Instead, he will "get me back" - for days or weeks sometimes until he feels satisfied and I feel like I'm going crazy. these get back periods have shortened lately since I figured it out, but the core of his "get backs" are to frustrate me. He "forgets" to pick something up, says he was going to do something and then doesn't do it. Changes stories on me left and right. He used to tell me that he liked one certain type of food, and then after I made it, tell me that he never liked it, things like that. These are some of his get backs. So it's not something that happens all the time.

Lately, he's been trying to do things that embarrass me in front of other people, and I think this is an escalation of his "get backs", and I think it's because I know about them.

I challenge him, and I try to convince me to tell me what's wrong, instead of these "get backs".

Last night, I came home from a very long day at school (I'm a full time student). He was "asleep" on the recliner, but I could tell that he was faking it. I tried things that I know would normally wake him to convince him to go to bed, and he is sarcastic with me.

I was very tired, very stressed, and my mind went immediately to "oh great, here we go again. He's mad about something, my mother is here for a few days, our DD is scheduled to have outpatient surgery tomorrow, and I have another test tomorrow. I don't have time for this stuff".

I started asking him what's wrong, and his responses go something like this:

"hmm" - he stares at me for probably 10 or more seconds, and then saying "nothing".

Right

So, I kept pushing and pushing for him to tell me, and he never did. We had a fight, I told him that barely a week's gone by since the last "get back" thing, and now he's telling me more emphatically that there's nothing wrong.

After the fight, after I feel like crap, he seems to feel better - he got me back.

He said, I told you nothing was wrong. Now, I'm thinking, he used the opportunity of me asking him what was wrong, to act like something was wrong, because he knows I'm being super vigilant about this.

I feel like I'm going crazy! I shouldn't have to be second guessing another adult's motivations. Why does this have to be this way.

And why is it when I'm under the most amount of stress, that he seems to do this. I can never pinpoint what he doesn't like, etc., but I can almost always count on it happening when I'M under a great deal of stress, not him, but me.

Anybody know why this is? Anyone who knows about Passive aggressiveness understand this.

I do want to be sensitive to his needs, recognize that he doesn't like to bring conflict out in the open, but it's hard to respect that when he let's me know his anger in other ways. I wouldn't mind if the get backs were more reflective of what he was mad about, but they're not.

His get backs can last for days on end, and have almost nothing to do with what he's actually mad about. So by the time I figure out that he's mad about something I did, not only am I not sorry, I am extremely mad that all of these things he did were intentionally hurtful and orchestrated to make things difficult for me.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

I don't know what to tell you. All I know when my exWH was in his A -he to started to not like thing that he always had liked. Me for the most part. I know it wore me down terribly. I tried to make thing right for so long and nothing worked. So I finally just stopped. I just stopped -one day he came home - I had a haircut- he of course did not like it. I looked at him with his angry face and all of a sudden I chuckled. I said Oh you don't like my hair. Well I din't think you would - there isn't anything you like about me anyway. and then I just walked away. He had nothing else to say. I also stopped cooking ect. I turned to making me happy. That was all I could do to save myself.

PA's are about control, they try to control the situation...all situations. By playing these silly 'get-back' games they keep you hopping. They keep the attention on themselves, while making it seem like YOU are to blame. You are right, they do not know how to handle conflict, and seem to relish in YOU getting mad.

I live with a KING PA. We have talked about it, and the behaviors, and I don't honestly think he knew what he was doing.

We read this article together...

http://members.aol.com/AngriesOut/couples8.htm

What I've had to do with my wonderful, dear PA, is be very clear about his behavior, what I don't like, and what I would do the next time it would happen.

He is very evasive when I question him about something uncomfortable...like his feelings.

Me: What do you want to do Saturday, spend time with my parents, or go camping?

Him: Sure

Me: Sure what?

Him: What was the question?

Me: I think you know what the question was, do you want to go camping or go to my parents this weekend?

Him: Did you see my new magazine?

Me: Yes, but I'd like an answer.

Him: Going camping would probably be OK

Me: I need a definite yes or no.

Him: Yes, you want to go camping

Me: What do you want to do?

Him: Yes, I want to go camping

Me: Fine, I'll plan a trip to go camping. If you don't go I'll be very hurt, but will go anyway


I have gotten into the habit of pointing out behavior that is 'getting-back'. Like if we are somewhere and he isn't happy and starts acting sarcastic, I will say, "I can tell you don't like being here, but rather than spoil my good time, I will walk away and not spend time with you until you can lighten up and get in a better mood."

I honestly don't think they KNOW how often they act in a PA way.

Point out behavior, then come up with a Plan B that will enable you to GET AWAY from them and not enable them to have an affect on you...

Him:

I do want to be sensitive to his needs, recognize that he doesn't like to bring conflict out in the open, but it's hard to respect that when he let's me know his anger in other ways.

actually the person you are describing loves conflict...
he loves to control it and use it as a weapon....

one thing you need to do is to recognize the pattern and stop your participation in it....and hopefully seek together a better pattern of resolving issues...

but you can't make him
and you can't control him...
and so what you do initially is stop participating..AND I want it to be clear that he at first will not like that you no longer participate in the familiar pattern and that most likey your refusal to play will result in some escalation of really bad behaviors till he realizes it just doesn't work anymore....

He used to tell me that he liked one certain type of food, and then after I made it, tell me that he never liked it, things like that.

don't play in to this...say "
REALLY?? What a coincidence...I was just thinking the other day..that I don't really like brussel sprouts anymore...isn't that funny I feel just like you about some foods...."
batt eyes...smile...

don't play in to this stuff AT ALL...and it will be really hard for you at first not to...


I started asking him what's wrong,

stop doing that...

So, I kept pushing and pushing for him to tell me, and he never did.

and stop doing that

I bet you a gabizillion dollars had you kissed him on the forhead told him good night...and hummed in to your bedroom...that man would have followed in exactly less than three minutes flat...
AND
make no mistake he would have picked a fight..
so you would have to humm some ..smiled at him...got a book and headed for the couch.....
AND
he would have followed you there...

see his plan is to get you to do all the work..

imagine him following YOU room to room trying to get you say...
what's wrong
you mad
did I do something wrong...

instead if you greet him with calm and kindness...and not feed in to it...
he's either going to get tired of it.
OR
he's going to try the old...
and when it does not work..
he's gonna try the truth...

this takes work practice and patience on your part..
it take YOU relearning what the OLD you would have said...and what the new YOU will say.......

don't rise to the bait of his forgetfullness...figure out a way around that wall each time....

IF he tries to embarrass you infront of others...
LEAVE
no kidding
LEAVE

period..
don't power struggle it..
speak your peace..
I will not go out with someone who treats me so disrepectfully
PERIOD>......

I will not accept that treatment in my world
PERIOD...

this is hard hard hard..
but I am dead serious about it....

ARK

Realtor.

Thanks for your response. As far as I know, there is no A. But I agree with you - I have to stop trying to always make things right, especially when I'm doing it in the dark since he won't tell me what's bothering him.

SHMI



Oh my God, that is almost exactly like some of our conversations. There are times when I won't answer him when he asks me to repeat the questions, because I know it's one of his tactics, but it's enough to make me crazy.



I have done that at times too, but sometimes I'm not quick on picking up the signals so I'll just respond to each comment or action as it comes, until it finally hits me that these are "get backs".

Everything you said is like you're living in my shoes and know what would work. The problem is that he is getting so good at doing things that he swears later on are not "get backs", so that if I react, I'm overreacting to nothing, it's a win win situation for him.

UPDATE. Yesterday, he and my mother took my daughter for her outpatient surgery (I had a test). I called from school to tell daughter good luck, and he didn't pick up. A few minutes later, he called back, said she's ready to go in and says "why did you feed her this morning"?

I gave her two small turkey sausage links at the 8 hour mark (before the surgery) because she had to take her medicine for this condition.

Anyway, I explained to him this, and he's responding with this higher up hmm, hmmm, I'm this idiot mother who doesn' know her [censored] from her elbow.

I hung up feeling horrible. He said he would call back after the surgery and he did. He said everything went well, again I told him how concerned I was for her, and that I would not have done anything to jeopardize the surgery.

they get back to the house afterward with DD, and find out that my D had told them that she had 3 links of sausage, instead of 2, that she ate them later in the day, like 6 hours before the surgery, but he never assumed that a 9 year old could have her facts wrong.

No apology no nothing. So, then he announces "we're going for chinese food". I don't want to go anywhere with this man, but I agree, because my mother is there.

I put on a happy face, we go, with me sitting in the front seat next to him and my mother and two kids in the back. I try to determine what the dinner atmoshere is going to be like so I ask him which chinese food restaurant we are going to, and his facial expression in his short answer tells me that he's going to embarrass me in the restaurant.

We get there, and I'm trying to stay as far away from him as possible. He pulls his chair next to mine, and I move over. I won't make eye contact with him, I won't talk with him, nothing.

He tries to make conversation with me now, because now I've turned the tables, and I politely answer.

While we're there, my mother and he tell me that there is a prescription at CVS to be picked up. I tell him I'll go out after we get back home and drop everyone off, he said no we can all go together. I looked at him like (wow, you're Mr. charmer in front of other people.), you wouldn't do this if we were alone.

well, that look was enough for him to conveniently "forget" to stop at CVS, which leaves me to go anyway.

Now, the night is getting late, I go to bed at around 10:30 p.m., and my mother soon follows.

H stays on the couch watching t.v. I'm laying in bed thinking about all of this, wishing that I was back before I met him, so I could turn my life around. At 1:30 a.m., I go downstairs annoyed that he's on the couch while my mother's here, which I know is exactly what he's waiting for, and sure enough he looks as happy as can be that I'm there looking annoyed. But instead of making a big deal of it, I took her advice, (I read your response, didn't have time to respond).

I asked him if he wanted a blanket, he said no, but I put one on him anyway. That's the end of the conversation, and I go up to go back to bed, and notice daughter on the recliner. (she must have come down in the middle of the night)

she asks if I can sleep with her. I tell her that there's no room for me, so instead I suggest that she come to bed with me, "Daddy's not coming to bed anyway".

So, at 4:30 a.m., I'm still awake, can't sleep, still realing over all of this, and I hear him coming upstairs to come to bed, so I left the bed and went into another bedroom before he got there, and before he saw me leave the bedroom.

I hear him ask DD who he must have woke up, "where's mommy".

DD says "probably downstairs". Then I hear her coming so I run downstairs to the family room, and she joins me.

The next morning, he sits next to my head on the couch, kisses my cheek and tells me we have to drop off one of the vehicles for inspections.

I say ok and get dressed. While I'm dressing, I'm thinking, he's all happy, he's going to get happier if I'm mad because then he's won, so I decide to do just the opposite.

On the ride back from the inspection mechanic, I'm making very uppity happy conversation, as if to say, I'm fine not sleeping with you, and his mood takes a quick dive to annoyed.

He feigns a kiss goodbye and that was that. When I got back to my house, I told my mother that he has barely said 2 words to me in the last two days and asked her if she knows anything, and has he said anything to her. she said no, and gives some opinions. Anyway, got to get to class.


(pheww, i feel like i wrote a novel).

Sounds good...

But there is one important thing the PA is missing from their life, and it is honesty. They are not honest with other people about their true intentions, and they are not honest with themselves. One of hte most important tools I have used with my H is HONESTY.

Your H has picked you because you are SOooo sensitive to his moods. He can control you with his moods. TIme to separate that control he has over you...

You are NOT in control of his moods, you have abslutley nothing to do with why he is angry, mad, afraid, sad, etc. But he knows with a look he can get you to jump and do his bidding...stop it. The time and attention you keep focused on him is taking away from your beautiful children, and yourself.

How I would have handled some of these situations...

You do NOT have to go to resaturant, just because your Mom is there...especially if you think he will embarass you. You say to your H after he has invited you, "I don;t want to go, because it seems when we go out to a restaurant you will embarass me or belittle me in front of other people and I don't want to be treated that way. Mom and I will go out to eat later." If he says, "I won't do that." Then you say, "OK, I'll drive my own car, and if you start then I will leave." And you do...you may need to drive yourself to restaurants for quite a while before he "gets it". You can talk with him later about specific behavior...

About not sleeping with you, you get real honest with him...but don't ever argue with a PA behavior, state facts, then state what you will DO about their behavior..."Honey, you look like you are nestled in for the night, I'd appreciate you staying down here so you don't wake me up when you come to be." If he says, "I'll be up soon", then say, "I will sleep somewhere else tonight then."

Each of htese behaviors, it's good to talk about when they are not occuring too, tell him what you don't like, what you'd like for him to do instead, and what you will do if it happens again.

In the case of the restaurant, don't let him talk you out of driving yourself, or having a way out.

Honestly, my H didn't realize he was doing this. He has stopped many behaviors, or at least realizes when he is doing it. Before a problem event, we talk ahead of time, so if I see him doing something disrespectful I can look at him and say, you're doing it again. Things have gotten so much better, but it has taken over a year, and some VERY hard work in the beginning.

Like ark says, you have to stop playing the game.

No more asking your Mom about what is going in with H.
Stop guiding your life based on H's moods.

Momfor...
time to be sly....BUT not time to be on the warpath...which you are....

understandably sooooooo..

BUT this is not the time for fixing and NOT the time for keeping score...
this is time for figuring out what hasn't been working for either of you....and addressing it in a way that serves YOU...
AND
plants seeds of better communication and nuturing of one another down the road of a long and blissful marriage...

this is a new day........filled with hope not resentments.....

NO MORE HANDING THIS MAN ANYMORE LOADED WEAPONS....
The more blanks he carries...the more empty his firings will echo in his own head and ears....

learn from each encounter...as this is as new to you as to him..........

He can't make you feel like a terrible mother without your consent...
you followed the instructions to a tee.....

and let yourself get sucked in to his vortex...you handed him the opportunity and possibly planted the idea that you did something wrong...when you KNOW you didn't and in reality he KNOWS you didn't either........

REALITY
if the food issue had been a big deal the pre-op nurse and everyone else would have sought the info from your husband and he had been given the correct information...
they would not take gosple from a nine year old IF it had been a big deal...............

you fall right in to his trap by telling him you feel like a terrible mother..........

there's not logical reason to feel this way.......
because you aren't ....

strengthen yourself first...

We get there, and I'm trying to stay as far away from him as possible

non verbal communication speaks volumes as well...control your impulses...
difuse
difuse
difuse....

not a logistical tactition...

I tell him I'll go out after we get back home and drop everyone off, he said no we can all go together. I looked at him like (wow, you're Mr. charmer in front of other people.), you wouldn't do this if we were alone

the NEW YOU rewards all good behaviors...INSPITE of intentions and reasons....

hubby says we'll stop...
don't look at him with a smart look..
smile, pat his hand, and say ...thanks dear!!!!!!

if you play in to him...he gets what he thinks he wants...
you want his attention....
do what he does not expect........

well, that look was enough for him to conveniently "forget" to stop at CVS, which leaves me to go anyway.

I don't get this...

where is your..
Honey oooops you passed CVS
or
Honey you need to go the other way to CVS...etc...

why your own passive aggressiveness.....???? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

I'm laying in bed thinking about all of this, wishing that I was back before I met him, so I could turn my life around.

lay in bed and think of turning your life around WITH him...and becoming a team

At 1:30 a.m., I go downstairs annoyed that he's on the couch while my mother's here, which I know is exactly what he's waiting for, and sure enough he looks as happy as can be that I'm there looking annoyed.

you know by now I am going to tell you to quit looking annoyed...

the blanket part was good....

Daddy's not coming to bed anyway".
can you guess what I think about your comment...

still realing over all of this, and I hear him coming upstairs to come to bed, so I left the bed and went into another bedroom before he got there, and before he saw me leave the bedroom.

why did you leave????????????????????????????????

On the ride back from the inspection mechanic, I'm making very uppity happy conversation, as if to say, I'm fine not sleeping with you, and his mood takes a quick dive to annoyed

you are NOT happy NOT sleeping with him...

you are both unhappy because you are locked in powerstruggle of silly communication blockers....

big picture of your marriage

is that you both sleep enthusiastically with eachother all the time...........

that's what you are working for
that's what you eventually want him to work for.......

I told my mother that he has barely said 2 words to me in the last two days and asked her if she knows anything, and has he said anything to her. she said no, and gives some opinions. Anyway, got to get to class.

loose lips sink marriages...

ARK

So, so, so, so, true. There are times like this that I have to remind myself that this is not healthy, and that I am playing the same game as he.

I just typed a bunch of stuff and deleted it, because it's all in an attempt to "be right". I don't want to be right, I want to be happy.

I agree that I need to stop allowing him to manipulate me, and I also have to stop responding with my own manipulation.

Yesterday was a bad day - we argued about work that needed to be done on the house. He did communicate with me about what bothered him, and I told him what bothered me.

I did follow MB's rules, and attempted a POJA, regarding the house, but he wasn't ready for it.

I'll try again when we're not arguing. It's so hard to not get wrapped up into this.

Thank you for reading.

So true.




I considered it, and then quickly played it in my head, and thought that his response to my reminder might go something like this, HIM: "I thought you said you were going to pick it up after after you dropped us off", conveniently forgetting about his offer for all of us to go together, and then my mother would agree with him because she doesn't like to have an argument.



I know, a big LB.



Good question. Maybe you can tell me why I feel the following: there are many times when he'll fall asleep on the couch and come to bed in the middle of the night. Although I've asked him repeatedly that he not do this, he still does. So, my thinking is that if he is not going to give me what I want by coming to bed when he's falling asleep, then I'm not going to be available for sex.





So, so true, but easier said than done. He's got this fear of being controlled, and if he gives in to doing what I want when I want it, then in his mind he's being controlled.

I am going to take your advice and try and not play any more games and be more honest. Today was a better day, and I hope it continues.

Thank you again for your wonderful advice.

So, my thinking is that if he is not going to give me what I want by coming to bed when he's falling asleep, then I'm not going to be available for sex.

this is not a marriage this is a battle field with two sides positioning to out WHAT??! eachother is the question...


get yourself TODAY in to marriage counseling......
whether he goes or not....

this is no way to live and nor is it any way to act...

you say he doesn't want to be controlled yet that is all both of you try do through actions...

this marriage is in a huge ditch...

there are NO loving actions from either adult....and whether or not he acts lovingly or not is not reason for you to do thusly as well..........

for the sake of your marriage and children who deserve to be raised in a home where the grownups learn to act grown up.........

ARK^^