For right now, I'm going to go out to dinner with her next week. I'm mulling over all of the cries for exposure that I've heard from everyone. Please, no one think that I'm dismissing your advice in any way. I think I need some more time (maybe just days, maybe longer) before I'm able to prepare myself for exposure. And when I am ready, believe that I will discuss it here first.

As for religion, W comes from a family actively involved in their church. I'm not going to go into this in great detail, but I believe in god but do not subscribe to any particular religion. According to W, religion is another way in which she now feels manipulated by her family.

Scott

Also, I'm aware of the fact that I'm not thinking entirely logically and clearly at this time, so thank you to everyone who is trying to get me to snap my brain back into reality.

My wife (xw) was the same. There was a lot of very judgemental legalism in her parent's church - and she has never recovered from it. As in, "if you were a good Christian you would always obey your parents (even as an adult)".

Grace is the key.

-AD

So, I guess what I'm really wondering about is not the value of exposure in general, but the effect it will have in my situation where my wife already feels so manipulated. I sometimes feel like the best thing that could happen now is for her parents, in no uncertain terms, to tell her to leave me and never look back. I've also thought that I want her counselor to say the same thing to her. She seems to just want to react against any feelings of manipulation whether she's actually being manipulated or not.

And no, I don't have a better idea.

First, I feel much less alone now, so thanks to everyone again. On to business-

I've been reading a lot of the other threads, and I have a question: Why is it so important that exposure be a surprise? Please note that I'm not questioning the validity of this idea. Some are so emphatic about this that there must be reasons, but none are immediately obvious to me.

I guess something that I've read is that the state of shock that she experiences will be lessened if she is warned. Is the idea that the shock of the experience will possibly knock her out of her foggy state of mind?

Hmm... I guess another point would be that if I warn her, then it looks like I'm threatening her... like "If you don't come back, I'm going to make your life he**!" or something. Anyway, I'd like to hear the perspectives of others.

Also, how do you explain your reasons for exposing? I'm sure answers to that question are somewhere on this board... I'll keep reading...

Exposure is aimed at unsettling the affairees and their happy little fantasy world.
I also suspect this OM is a player. Bet you OMW is supporting him while he goes through college/uni...THATS why they dont want you telling her!!
There's a good chance he'll drop your WW like a hot rock if its the case.
Then you will have one of those tough decisions to make ..take her back or not....but lets NOT get ahad of ourselves yet!!

Theres a few reasons why you should not warn them.

One is it can sound like a threat and probably is when used as stop or I do this way. Probably will not work is the main reason to be frank.

Second long and painful experience has shown that the two parties will lie like politicians to others ahead of your exposure with everything from allegations of abuse to you being crazy.
They will put out a story to demonstrate YOU are the problem not the affair. Crazy as that sounds it has happened here and people tend to believe what they hear first.
Dr Harley says it in a nicer way but thats the gist of it.

Did you know the greatest barrier to using exposure is the fear that using it will drive the WS further away?
Never happens for good.

But you will get a lot of anger and believe it or not a very common reply from the WS is HOW COULD YOU BETRAY MY TRUST LIKE THAT!! meanwhile they are committing adultery. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />
Dont think I wouldn't have been any different I expect I would have.
The vast majority of WS follow a script that varies little, even if situations do.

My best advice as a FWW is STOP DELAYING AND LOOKING FOR EXCUSES ...EXPOSE NOW!!!

Okay, the more I read, the more I'm won over by the idea of exposure... as scary as it seems. Do you think that there would be any benefit to exposing only to OMW before going any further, or should I just go for it in one fell swoop.

In my own fantasy world, I want to think if I just tell OMW, she will be able to get OM to come back to her, thus ending the A. My W has told me that OMW has asked OM directly if he was having an affair and he said no.

Another thing about which I need some advice: I have read an approximately 2 month long email dialog between W and OM. In these emails, I've seen quite a few lies and timeline misrepresentations that my wife has fed me. When I'm talking to her, should I let her know that I know these things, or should I wait until a much later date to reveal that I've read her email?

Expose to OMW, to her family, your family, the Univerisity and mutual friends that have influence on her. Do it all at once so you don't have to keep revisiting the situation.

Remember, things cannot be worse than now as she is living and having sex with OM. If you want to have a chance to get her back, you must expose.

With respect to the e-mails, just let her know that you know she has been lying to you. You don't have to disclose your sources. Just say you know.

Ok

exposure timetable .. there is divided opinion on this..some say all at once others say graduated exposure.

The problem I see with graduated exposure is you probably need to be very very disciplined and ignored all comments & actions by the WS to proceed.

Its probably better to expose if you feel uneasy with it all at once without warning is my advice.

NEVER NEVER NEVER indicate where you get your evidence or knowledge from. Make statements if you need to and dont get sucked into the " how would you know" or the "I'm not lying" go around ..its just a method of trying to find out how much you know & where you got it from so as to get rid of that evidence or close off the line of info.

By the way, take copies of all that info and any other you get and place it in a safe place away from home. Hopefully it may never get to the stage of needing it for any court action but being prepared for the worst cannot hurt you.

Also if requested you may wish to consider providing the OMW with copies of the emails, though your WW living with the OM is pretty well firm confirmation..but IF he's a player I wouldn't be surprised if the story is that he is helping a wife flee an abusing H etc etc etc .. thats why having evidence can be of great help.

Well, I'm going out to dinner with W on Wednesday. I realize that since she's left our apartment, I've never actually asked her to come back home. I'm going to tell her that despite everything that has happened, she is always welcome to come back home. I know that this isn't going to change anything, but I think I need to say it.

I've decided to take everyone's advice and not warn her of exposure. I'm going to see what happens at dinner, and then I'll very likely be back here to ask for advice on exposing to OMW and my in-laws and W's friends.

Thanks again everyone, and please let me know if anything I've written here is an especially bad idea.

No Cute Name -

If it were me, I would not tell the W she is 'Always' welcome to come back home. I would be clear that at this stage she is welcome to come back home if she wants to work on the the M. The future however is not clear...

Don't make a sweeping statement about a future that you can not control. Plus it will let her know that you may not be there as her 'back up' relationship.

Assuming you do a full exposure, then it will be time to go semi-dark and mysterious. Let her wonder about you and what you are doing. Plus it limits the amount of exposure fallout you have to endure.

As always though - JMHO.

Gib

Gib,

Thanks, good thoughts. I've never been through this before (and hopefully never will again), and it seems like there's always something I haven't considered. That's why I appreciate any piece of advice so much. But yeah, I have to make sure to keep the "always" out of there.

Scott

Hi no cute name:

I am so busy I don't post a lot but wanted to post to you about exposure. Please listen to the people here about exposing this Affair, it is the best chance to kill it.

I am divorcing my wife but I am always happy to see someone that can get past the pain of an affair. I could not but let me tell you a little bit about my story.

My Wife was having an affair and I read emails about what they were going to do and their lives together. She said she wanted to marry him and divorce me and take my kids and get alimony and child support and take me to the cleaners. Now to be honest my wife treated me like crap our whole marriage so it should not have supprised me but I was shocked at first.

Well I had a lot of evidence including video of them and emails and I exposed them. My wife was very mad about exposure and we argued like never before. I told her she should be happy because now she can go live her fantasy life with her soul mate.

I kicked her out and filed for divorce but a funny thing happened to her. She begs me all the time for a second chance and she claims she doesn't see him and just wants us back together. I am trying to forgive her for the affair but I don't want to be with her anymore due to both the affair and the years of neglect and her abuse.

In your case run to the Other Mans Wife and tell her!! Let her take the guy to the cleaners it will make him a lot less desirable to your wife. Best of luck to you.

IHadEnough,

Thanks for sharing. I'm sorry to hear about how you were affected, and I wish you all the luck in the world.

Your case makes me want to clear something up for everyone reading about me. I cherished every moment of time that I had to spend with W. She pretended to be happy in order to make me happy, and it worked. I never knew the pain that she was feeling, but she got so good at hiding things, that she was able to hide her A, and the things inside her that caused it for quite a while.

Looking back I realize that we were missing a real emotional connection, but it took the pain caused by the A to make me realize that. Anyway, my point is that I had a lot of good times with my wife. And even though we're both young and recently married and don't have any kids, I still value my marriage to her to the highest extent.

Back to IHadEnough, don't take this the wrong way, but I hope to god that my wife reacts how yours did... but I also can imagine a time not too far down the road when I feel like you do.

Scott

no cute- be careful of the false recoveries. My WW called me 5 weeks after living with OM asking to come home. I said of course provided NC and we rebuild our M. Well it was good for 2 days, then she left again, now moved in with OM 6 miles down the road. Evidently the addiction was to tough to kick or he was in more pain than I and DD. I don't know if I can give her a second chance. Stay strong.

bigwave,

Thanks for the heads up. I'm sorry to hear what's happened to you. That really stinks. Based on the emotional state of my W at this point, that's something I'm worried about already, even though there is no recovery as yet... false or otherwise. If she ever comes back, maybe that's a topic about which I'm going to ask for more input. We're both in school (and almost done)... and don't really have any money, so moving far away is pretty much out of the question for the next 8 months or so. Yeah, I guess I'll have to cross that bridge when I come to it. Best of luck with whatever you decide to do. I'm new around here, but I'm going to watch to see how things turn out for you.

Take care,
Scott

no cute name

there is a very very important point I wish to make here that I see in your posts.

When a WS is in an affair they change the history of the M to suit their perceptions - it is not accurate - and I firmly am of the opinion that this is the case here.

Your WS could not 'pretend' for so long in all the little ways a husband & wife interacts as she portrays. I dont think there would be many who could unless they were devoid of any human feeling.

No your wife did feel love for you but thinks the 'magic' of this OM answers all her doubts.

Do not be seduced into her fantasy that she she 'never' loved you. This is a standard script from most WS and is rewriting the past to suit her current adultery.

Just remember this and do not allow her 'FOG' words to divert you from your determination.

aussieswife,

Wow, I feel a little stupid or something for thanking everyone for every post that is made on this thread, but I really mean it every time. What you wrote does mean a lot to me, and I have to believe it myself just for the sake of my own sanity.

But it's so hard for me to tell when I'm just fooling myself. Sometimes it's in the positive direction and sometimes the negative. Also, I've read elsewhere basically everything you wrote, but it's almost impossible for me to see it for myself in my own case and actually believe it.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I won't ever want to argue with her about whether she loved me or not. It seems like that would only have negative consequences. But if I let myself believe that maybe she didn't love me, I can try to let her see how much I care about her and maybe she can find something in herself to show her that she does love me.

I sound pathetic. The more I write, the more I depress myself. "Dinner Wednesday... then exposure" is what I keep telling myself.

Scott

What's the exposure plan?

Try to understand/predict possible reactions of people you are exposing to.

Try to understand W's likely possible reactions so that you are not surprised and react emotionally. Know what you are going to say and do when you are confronted. Write it down. Reread it.

HardHead,

Those are all good points. I have not worked out the specifics as of right now, but I won't go forward without addressing all of your questions and concerns.

I personally am very fond of the idea of exposing to OMW first. Does this make me a terrible person that my 3 fantasy scenarios go as follows? (listed in order of least horrible to most):

1. Expose to OMW. She is surprised, but really wants to make her relationship with OM work, so she confronts him and they decide to rebuild their marriage and live happily ever after.

2. Expose to OMW. She is angry and decides that she's going to take OM for everything he's worth in their divorce.
a) OM goes crawling back to OMW instead of losing all of his money and possessions in the divorce settlement and they live happily ever after.
b) My W gets a dose of reality when she realizes that OM is going to be left with nothing and comes back home.

3. Expose to OMW. She is angry, and wants revenge and begs OM to come back home. He goes and dumps my W for his own. My wife sees how shallow their relationship actually was all along and comes back to me.

So, thinking excessively about those scenarios makes me feel a little bad (especially #3), but just letting it out here gives me a little bit of relief inside.

Scott