Working thru the muck that is my job as of late...my 2 coworkers had their last day on friday. We will be getting as a new addition, the WIFE of another clinician we work with...but our handbook is specifical about husbands and wives working together...a no no. While she is good, that is inherently not a great thing...their relationship is stable, and they are nice people though.

I spoke w/my director, about if we're getting the second person (since 2 left)...and he is working on an alternative approach to that...one that might could alleviate our drudge of call duties...it wears us down sooooo much!

But still trudging on and looking about to move back into a private practice...miss it sooooo much...but on the good side, a bit of vacation time has indeed built up at my job...and if I stay around, I will have a nice bit of it stored up. Gonna wait around for right job at right time.

Had some wierd stuff w/xh this week. But isn't that always the case? Last week was week where kids at school asked their parents to come and talk about their jobs. My son asked ME to come and talk about my job. I did, and it went well..brought stuff from work and showed the kids what their "innards" looked like...they loved it! I asked xh during call @ son's trip to allergist/asthma doc if he would go and he declined. Then suddenly on wednesday, after son came home from school, son exclaims, "Mom, dad wanted this to show to the teacher." Darth left in bookbag an article in a magazine about HIM. In the article it says how much his company makes, how much money they manage (he says an unbelievable amount) and in the photo of him, he is leaning with his ring hand not facing the camera...as though he does not want to show it. All the other photos in the magazine were of men and women entrepreneurs and they all had theirs on in most pics. Darth takes son to school in morning...and he never removed the magazine...and it was never given to his teacher. Son says "dad says you can have this". What? Then son comes home from school friday and says "Dad tried to get me to say to you that FV was a great cook...better than you are." Now what does that mean? I have no clue. And on Thursday, since his nanny quit, Darth forgot to pick up son in the morning at all.....luckily I remain always prepared. On positive note, Darth did give monthly check on day BEFORE the first. This is the only time this has happened so that's good.

After getting thru the job stress, stuff from darth, etc., I meditated alot. Thought alot. And remembered that my girlfriends here wanted me to do the match thing. I have NOT been working the program at all...In fact, I have barely touched it in months...just kinda glossed over the emails I've gotten. I think I need to refocus and reframe the little bit of "personal" that is in my life.

Soo....I'd like to know what you believe makes a profile stand out. I have spent my little bit of time single pretty much talking to 3 guys. Yea, the xbf called last week. And btw..his profile is still up there as of today! He called and spouted off this stuff about "we should talk more...and this is what I want from a serious gf"...and I said "well R, aren't you saying this serious R talk stuff maybe a year too late?" He asks if I am seeing anybody serious...I say no. He says then it's ok to have this talk then. I tell R to not talk, but if he's serious to DO something about it already then. He says we can "schedule a date next week". Whatever. If he is serious, he will do the work darn it!

So I decide that the present is not working too great. That maybe I should try to expand my redundant circle of dates. That maybe my girlfriends were right. That I should muster up some more self confidence and try this darn thing. What do guys even look for in this online stuff? What does make a girl stand out? And how does one conduct internet talks? When you're a girl from the nineties living in the millenium...? Online dating is still so wierd feeling to me. I don't really know the protocols? What are they?

What is this thing called being single in the new millenia? I may have dated. BUT I DON'T GET IT!

"What do guys even look for in this online stuff?"

Answer: sex. About 90% of them are just looking for some sex. There will be those who swoop in here gushing about how they've met this guy, and this guy, and this guy, and this guy.... online and how they know someone who met Mr wonderful on line. You'll even find the occasional perosn who met a spouse online. But the overwhelming majority of women I know who have tried it, gave up in disgust.

I tried it too and I have to agree. It's not worth the effort. It's a better deal for women since men outnumber women 5-to-1 on these sites. Expect to be toyed with and summarily dumped when it becomes clear that you aren't going to hook up for sex with a total stranger after a few evenings of the absured IMing, emailing and phone conversations (all of which you will be able to have all by yourself after a couple of months, becuase you'll come to see how predictable it all is). There is the occasonal real, sane person online, but they are very hard to find, because they don't stay around very long.

I don't recommend online dating to anyone. The success rate of relationships that started online is abysmally low. The average relationship last a mere three dates. Most that go on longer last right at three months. I also read somewhere that marriages resulting from online relationships have the highest failure rate by far. Want to see what you are in for and up against? Read some women's profiles and note the frustration in their profiles after they've been doing it for more than a few months.

I understand this issue..and can say that I believe I have in past (again NOT working the program)a few serial daters...but that's the worst.

My issues are this: 1:geographically challenged by work. Although a large hospital, it is out of the metro area...or outta the perimeter by a wiiiide margin. i am more likely to meet a retired couple than a single guy at my job..2: am a hands on mom and take my son as top priority. That's self explanatory. 3: I am picky. Self explanatory.

And yes, I have good friends and am member of a large club with primarily singles in it...just that my job has been such that I have arranged call week to coincide with 1 week son is not with me...so it has somewhat put a damper on my so called social life. So by doing this thing online, I think I am widening my dating margins a bit.

What does seem to be making me a bit upset is the larger group of older guys emailingme. I don't want to date them, and make it pretty darn clear in my profile. It's scary to see 45 to 50 year olds interested in the 30 somethings...and I am not biting thus far and don't plan on any exceptions. A few nice guys so far. So far anyway.

What I also want to know is what catches a guys' eye online. Is it the photo? Is it the screenname?

Check, one of these days you are going to have to stop beating around the bush and tell us what you really think about online dating.

Speaking as one of the 90% only interested in cheap sex...

Just kidding... (maybe)

I'm sure different guys look at different things. What catches my eye when I peruse the ads?

Yes, a picture will catch my eye when I'm looking through the ads, but it's not always what you might think. I'm not looking for drop dead gorgeous, because more often than not, they are more trouble than they are worth. The prettier they are the more it seems they think you should be grateful for putting up with their sh**. No thank you. They don't have to have a photograph for me to notice the ad, but it does bring some to the forefront.

The next thing that catches my eye is their descriptive paragraph where they describe themselves. Are they original? Are they funny? Do they take themselves too seriously? Do they put down online dating? Do they know what they want/like? In other words, how well does their personality come through in their description? If its a description that makes me feel that I can laugh with the person, I am definitely going to be dropping them a note.

LOL, TBG. Yeah, I think online dating reeks. I know no woman who has ever done it for more than a couple of months who didn't start thinking about dropping it unles they were professional daters. Those looking for a good relationship become quickly discouraged. One can't convince others of this until they've been there themselves.

Peachy, we live in the same city, so I understand some of your issues. First there's that absurd IP vs OP "prejudice" (explanation for those who don't know Altanta: Some poeple wlive inside the perimeter (IP_ - the I-285 loop - won't have anything to do with the "burbbies", or those who live outside the loop (OP) and vice versa. This is a strong indication of how shallow Atlantans can be.) And metro Atlantqa is just so big! It isn't uncommon to date someonee who lives "just on the other side of town" and still live 60 miles away. The dating scene in Atlanta is incredibly toxic. For men there is the "Atlantatude" to deal with; i.e., spoiled, selfish, demanding, shallow women, who are completely impossible to please and care about nothing but money and status. For women, there's the incredible number of players to deal with, not to mention the guys who insist on dating nothing but eye candy.

While I will agree with you that 50 year old man is too old for you, a 45 year old man most assuredly is not. Women should always go for a man who is five to 10 years older than her. The men your age are going to look for women 26 to 33, since men prefer women three or more years younger than themselves. Were I you, at 36, I'd be looking for men 39 to 45. They are more settled, financially secure and less apt to playing games.

If you are on Match, they conduct regular "mixers" around Atlanta. These are divided into age groups (20, 30, 40, 50+). Women have told me that they enjoy these evenings and have found them to be much more effective than just doing the online thing., since you meet the men face-to-face, get to know them a bit, and then check out their profile later.

There is one great peice of advice about profiles: read the comptetition's profiles and make sure yours is nothing like them. Most people's profiles are so syrupy and predictable that one tends to scarcely give them more than a cursory read and then yawn. The best thing is to be honest and original, avoiding the trite phrases like "loves intimate candlelit dinners" or "loves long walks on the beach" -- you get the picture. Write a profile that highlights what you feel are your best qualities and makes a guy want to know more about you. Most of the questions these sites ask are just plain dumb and don't tell you much about the other person. Either ingore these or give short answers. Use the narrative portions of the profile to carry your message. Everyone who has been out on three or more dates from peoeple the "meet" on these sites understand that most people way oversell themselves in their profile. Be one of the ones who doesn't do this. It is very refreshing to meet someone who is exactly as they described themself in their profile. It let you know that you aree probably dealing with someone who is real.

Understand that for every five guys you "meet" there are going to suddenly drop off the face of the planet for no apparent reason. Remember, most men are looking for sex. When they finds some, they loose all interest in whoever else they may be interested in. If a guy does this to you and then reappears a few weeks later, blow him off. Also look at how long a man has been a member. If all you are wanting is some casual dating, this isn't terribly important. But if you want a relationship, you will not have one with some guy who's been a member for two or three years. People can say what they want, but it doesn't take more than about a year of dating to hit upon someone who is compatible if their expectations are realistic and reasonable. So the long-term members are professional daters. If you are looking for a relationship, put some statement in your profile that you are only interested in men who desire to find the right lady and then resign from Match. DO NOT try to develop a relationship with a man who refuses to do this, since he is the type who will cheat on you later.

Wow....you have got this town certainly well profiled I must say!

I am an OTP. And I know of the ITP/OTP prejudice. One guy, my xbf is an OTP but lives 30 miles away from me...

I ironically have been speaking to him a little bit...we have history...and I accidentally told him last night, comically, when he was working evening er shift..after he says "well we need to get together...I just need to get this kitchen of mine in the new condo finished first"...I said, "geez. I should have forgotten about this about a year ago." He said "what?" My whole new attitude change about everything has somewhat amazed the dude. He is still on match btw...and he knows that I am possibly...going, going, gone! I guess that's why he calls me with the stupid demands of what he wants from what he called "wife material"...ie, me. I think he's gotten it that I am dating around now. And since he knows that 1)I am decent morally 2)attractive 3)intelligent, he might be getting bit scared. But then again, he is sooo smart, he probably knows that most guys if they're after IT, aren't gonna get far w/me, and he may actually count on the fact that I am not well...easy..in that I may not be yet taken..


And yes, I did not ever think that most were well...after "THAT"...I honestly thought that some people would want a relationship if that's what they say they want. And as of late, I have read a few profiles, of which I delete after they wink or something at me, that they do NOT want marriage. I do have some nice guys that I am emailing now...but I have a huge test this weekend (sat) and need to get onto studying for it. been studying off/on for a few months now..as for guys I've met..very few. I did meet a doc there. We had 2 nice dates. He got a bit handsy on last date, and I was one to end the date earlier than he wanted to...as alas, I have a life and committments I have to attend to..and wouldn't you've guessed it? I have NOT heard from him since.

I like your suggestion that if they call back after a few weeks, dump them. You're probably right on target.

Now here's the other issue. I am 36. I look 27. I can compete w/the 20something girls. I don't want to really date guys much older than I. Have noticed I get along w/guys from 33-41 best. Not that older guys aren't my thing, but I am wanting honestly if I could...to start my life over. And the over 41 guys I have corresponded with either are NOT interested in more children (I have one and would like to at least have 1 more if possible), or got "fixed". I want a tabla rasa..clean slate..Feel kinda cheated and duped after my marriage to darth basically. Most of the guys I've gone out w/either have been never married...and they're wanting kids. That is the audience basically I guess I wish to market to. Geez. That sounded SOOOOO atlanta of me..sorry.

Now what's your take on long distance guys? I have met (yea I know...another PA) online. He's cute. He's D'd...was married a long time ago...been single for about 7 years now. 2 years older than me. And works in same specialty I do. (I know..so does my xbf). Former af fighter pilot too. Says he's sick of plastic girls and wants somebody real. Ready to settle down. He has called about 4x and sent me the sweetest email this morning...problem? He's about 7 hrs away...still in south though. He is wanting to fly here to meet me...and since his job is easily transferrable, he says distance if we feel good about things, is no issue to him. What about that kinda sitch? Should I pursue it? Or should I knock if off? I know Billy here met his dream girl waaaay across the nation. Darn it, I still keep forgetting to send losthusband and his W their wedding present!

Big guy, thanks for your .02. I will keep your thoughts in mind...more words than pic being of importance. Although here in my city, as checkurheart can second, is SOOOO ABOUT LOOKING GOOD. I mean it! Atlanta is NOT a good town to be single in unless you're a former PB centerfold with multiple ph.d's and live in a 400k high rise condo in either buckhead or midtown.

Well, I for one, obviously have no problem with the long distance thang....DUH......


Sounds good so far. My only concern at this point and maybe it's a stereotype, but many Doc's I know have ego's that won't go through doorways and many pilots I know make those Doc's ego look small.......


With SERIOUS boundaries in place, I say why not meet him. SERIOUS BOUNDARIES, PEACHY.....



HE!! YEAH!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

"I am 36. I look 27."

What does this mean? Why do women say this stuff? Is there something wrong with being 36 and looking 36? I am in my 50's and date women in their 50's. Most are quite good looking. So are 30-somethings and 40-somethings.

I don't get it.

I'm 39 and look 38 3/4 <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />

Me too Green Eyes!!

LOL

Well I've noticed lately that everything is starting it's downward crawl...the face, the boobs, the arms...it's just nature and I'm going to deal with it. I've earned it all!! LOL I am who I am..wrinkles, sags and everything else...LOL I've never been one of those nip and tuck girls that trys to keep up with whomever. I'm proud to be a low maintenance girl...lol...opps I mean woman... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />

And by the way...I do really look 28...Last time I got carded was 4 years ago...LOL No better compliment than that... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

People say it because it makes a difference.

I'm not a woman, but (to put it conservatively) I look a decade younger than my true age.

I have discovered that women my own age sometimes have a bit of trouble taking me seriously, while women considerably younger than me treat me like a peer. Even though they know how old I am, that knowledge doesn't seem to be the dominating factor in their behavior.

Of course, I also have a youthful outlook on life, and my activities tend to be shared more by younger folk, which could have a bigger impact than my mere appearance.

The bottom line is that I seem to "fit" better with a younger crowd. Of course, that doesn't mean that younger women would have any interest in actually marrying (or getting romantically involved with) an old guy like me.

Peachy is interested in looking within what would have to be considered an "age-appropriate" demographic, which she's doing for valid reasons. Her youthful appearance is going to affect her prospects within that demographic, because it is going to affect how she is perceived.

Culture. Genetic conditioning. Desirability. The reality is that for women, the younger she is, the greater her social price.

There's nothing wrong with being 36 and looking 36. Just as there is nothing wrong with being 36 and looking 27. But if you're 27 and look 36, then I would say you should quit partying so much...

To answer one of Peachy's original questions, I know that one of the things I looked for in a profile (aside from points of compatibility) was a sense that the woman knew who she was and what she wanted, and that she was articulate and realistic about it. Far too many profiles could either be summed up as "I'll take just about anybody" or as "I want the impossibly perfect man who will do everything for me." And far too many profiles seemed to be crafted with an eye toward what the writer thought a man would be looking for instead of who she really thought she was.

However, it should be noted that I may not be typical in what I look for. I wrote my own profile with the same level of open honesty that I looked for in the profiles I was reading, but my experience suggests that this was an ineffective strategy. I read a fair number of profiles where I thought "Hmm. We seem to be a pretty good fit. Based on what she wrote, there's every reason to think that my profile should intrigue her." For whatever reason, though, I got zero interest, and with the exception of a couple of polite rejections, every e-mail I sent was ignored.

And perhaps that answers the question about online dating protocols. As far as I can tell, those protocols involve writing up an inaccurate profile and ignoring all e-mails.

Of course I know that other people have had very different experiences with online dating, involving much greater success and/or much greater horror, but for me it ended up looking like just another dead end.

There are a few of us 40-45 year old men that have the same ideas as you. So...don't be too eager to write us off (even though I am a 44 that looks 44).

Why would I be interested in early 30'ish women? Simple...I am 44, no children (so absolutely NO ties to the XW), yet really would enjoy having one or two of my own. Know any 44 year-old women that want a first child or possibly another? Most women my age that have reached 44 without a child is because they do not want them. The rest have probably already raised the ones they do have. So...to increase my odds, the odds are in my favor in the 30-35 year range.

I may be 44, but...I am decent-looking, hard working, and offer stability. I have had only 2 jobs in my life, being at the first one for 17 years, and the one I have now for 7. I consider that to be a sign that I CAN commit to something. I was married only once, for 14 years, and didn't marry until I was 27. I dated another for 7 years prior to that, so...a total of 2 serious relationships in my life. I consider that another sign of believing in total commitment to someone.

I have NEVER drank alcohol, nor even experimented with ANY type of drug. I have SIX sisters, so....I learned early how to treat women. I have no problem spoiling the woman in my life, and totally dedicating my life to her. Ask anyone that knows me...They will say the same...

So you see, peachy, there ARE 40'ish men that just may have everything that you are searching for...and then some. Especially the fact that I have absolutely have no problem with helping to raise a child that ISN'T mine. Been down that road as well, and loved it.

What I am basically saying is....Don't draw a definite line with the age of men. There are some "gray" areas (pun intended), that could be the best there is. There are also those of us that are healthy and very active as well. As a matter of fact, if you could just see my actions, instead of the gray and some wrinkles, you would think that I was early 30's.

There ARE those men in your age range that still think they are 18. Those are the ones to cut from your list....


HCII

Billy...

Ok. I understand your concern about serious boundaries. Trust me I get it. And I will not enlarge boundaries with guys...especially with xbf.

Am home studying for a board exam tomorrow morning. Bleech. it is at 11 am.

So need tons of prayers.

I so wish I could have free time...espcially on a weekend when I am NOT on call and son is at xh's.

Honestly, it's as though with me that I woke up from a 10 year long coma or something...with regards to my wanting to date under 40is...it's like somedays I mostly feel 26. And that is my feelings. The 2 older guys I met briefly, had some different issues than I did. Sure they had fun, they had fulfilling lives. But their issues were different than mine. And I think that I am best suited for somebody in my age/life experience range. Somebody in their 30's. And maybe up to their early 40's.

But to ME, it is sickening when I look at couples like TomKat. EWWWWW. Older guy hooking up w/younger girl. Guess it mirrors my xh and his (present) wife sitch.

Now Billy, you know that I work in medical field. I am most comfortable with guys in my own arena b/c well...it is MY comfort zone. That is probably why I seem to do well dating them. But then again, I like somebody who is just a good conversationalist....somebody that is intelligent and knows a little about a lotta stuff. Then there is the dreamy eyed college girl still within me and alive and well...that's the girl that gets starry eyed when I hear stories of saving lives while being deployed in Iraq (like the new pa I am talking to). Whole combo of man in uniform/sweet side of being compassionate and saving somebody/my comfort zone and profession that "gets" it for me.
Today inbetween studying, I tried to figure out my dating desires. What is in common with people I have been with for decent amount of time(only darth(in his pre=darth sith lord years) and R the xbf and kinda sorta the guy from college who wants back in ).

And I realized that what I want is basically a diluted version of Darth but educated and with morality.

And I realized also that I have not given others a 100 percent chance b/c I have failed to put myself 100 percent out there too. So my singleness is basically having been my choice and my fault.

I think I still have had some healing issues I have worked thru...but since I can now say this in retrospect, I guess I am working it out and ready to maybe, work the program!

I may let this guy, the new pa, and also my college xbf, and maybe my recent xbf, R, see the new improved and "ready to be emotionally available" peach. Will see what happens.

Wow. I cannot believe what I wrote. And this is huuuuge! I just said I am ready to be emotionally available to somebody other than my son, my family, or my friends...I said that in regards to a man! Wowee. I can't believe it.

Most darn difficult test I've ever taken...I don't think some docs could pass it. My friend who took it (at another test site) said she had to walk out during it b/c her stomach was soooo upset from the stress of it. She actually tossed her tacos. My other friend who took it, he's a clinical instructor at the med college of ga...he said "I feel reaaaaallly stuuupid" after taking it.

I left, went straight to (right near my home)a chili's and had 2 margaritas...took a little of the sting outta it.

Been commisurating over it all afternoon. Then I check my darn emails here. Some nice ones from some people...then I see bleech...another one from my xh. Mindless forward about a supposed maneating alligator or something (photos included) roaming the streets of new orleans in search of humans. Heck, I say why eat humans? He could just eat some WS Alien flesh.

I had some nice vmails today. One was from the cute new pa guy. My old xbf, the other pa guy, is mia today...seems he can be supportive all bur the day of the test...said volumes to me about him again. He's bleech (margarita did that)a speedbump in my road of life. So concerned about me, he could study with me for 3 hrs and then NOT check up on me to see if I did well on it. Well I can for sure 100 percent say he would NOT have done well on it.

The test outline and materials we were to research, well half of the stuff we were TOlD to study did NOT show up on that darn test! Bleech.

Some people say that there's a WS to blame...but I know...it's my x's fault...ha ha...thought I'd just turn a few lyrics around.

I took a short nap, and while I drifted off to my sleep, I was flooded with images of rabid, 30 foot gators chasing foggy people around the streets of Atlanta...was such a fun dream <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Bleech.

am on call tonight.

worked almost fifteen hours.

am dead to the world ...

had probably the second worst date of my life last night...met guy who lived nearby from the match thing.

he was cute..somewhat charming...educated...and AN OCTOPUS WITH EIGHT HANDS.

I was angry at him. he grabbed for above waist when I kissed him goodnight. I almost slugged him. I said "whoa cowboy..(he's from tx originally)...where in the hades did you get the idea you could do that?"

Needless to say I am NEVER taking a call or anything again from him. he is also blocked from phone and email...luckily he does not know where i live or anything like that.

yea, it would seem some of the guys outt here are after one thing. bleech.

it's days like yesterday that make me want to be asexual...and a workaholic...when i don't have my son that is...i could become a nun maybe? Hmmm.

that almost set me back about five steps, what a jerk he was. and said he "had a great time and wanted to talk outside the restaurant." very nice restaurant too. went on and on about how well date was, etc.

after he was rebuffed after the above the waist grab attempt (I moved his hand and said the whoa thing)...his hand went south...and I grabbed it and said "this is enough". You are outta line and I am not putting up with this. If you walk after me or attempt to speak to me, I will use my cell phone.

I hope I never see him in this area. If I saw him at the grocery, I'd consider grabbing the microphone and saying "manho on aisle 14...manho on isle 14." and then casually ram my cart into his at say...120 mph. What an idiot and jerk. He walked after me and said "what did I do?" that idiot! I told him. He said "well it was so tempting."

I asked if he had control of his hands or did he just have some sort of a tic or something that caused his hands to fly onto woman's bodies. I asked him that just because you like something does not mean you take it...like stealing a car, shoplifting, or or becoming a gropinator.

He said "well I really do want to get to know you". I said, well I think that translates into "I want to zzzz with you..and I don't want to now or ever."

Oh...and during dinner this was one interesting bit.

He had a spiel about being a former WS (yea, he cheated on his W)...and said how he was sooooooo sad for what he did...and how he was probably the safest perosn in the world to date..a.s he learned his lesson and would never cheat on anybody again.

It raised huge red flag to me...but he went on about his kids..(2 boys) and how he was all about them.

But at the end of the day, he was a gropinating Ws with a problem controlling his hands.

It made me nauseous. I almost pulled my profile out today.

I mean, it was so classic WS saying..."well you were so tempting." I mean, this guy is a train wreck waiting to happen. Talk about say one thing do another.

If he had attempted to touch me at all after I walked away, he would NOT be standing and I would have called the police.

These are the kind of people that truly scare me. Are soooo good at being convincing (he was in sales and marketing and big position w/large company here). It was like I must have met one of darth's friends...or a member of his sith lord cult last night. bleech!

The mothership is hovering over my neighborhood...hometown...it's so big it's hovering over the entire metro area of atlanta now!

I'm sorry you had that experience! yuck! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

I don't know how many first dates you've been on. When I first started dating after my divorce, I had to learn a few things. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> and I'm still learning... and I had to determine my boundaries and what I liked and didn't like. As much as I enjoy kissing, and I thought I always thought a kiss on the first date was OK, I have learned that I have SO MUCH respect for the guys that DON'T kiss on the first date... OR.... will only give a polite peck, or peck on the cheek or something. One leaned in real quick and kissed me on the side of the neck - another one on the forehead. Both of them apologized later and asked me if it was too forward and if I minded. I thought that was very sweet and respectful - and I felt safe with them - yet I knew they were attracted to me. Roaming hands are another issue, but go along with the kissing, respect and boundary things. If he wants to show you respect, and make you feel safe, he will. Smart men know how to do this while making us feel sexy and attractive, so they will get a 2nd date.

Anyway... I'm sorry that happened to you. Don't give up though! There are a few nice ones out there, capable of controlling themselves!