Just my observation and experience from the 'school of hard knocks'. LOL!!

Here's my rewrite of your original 1st paragraph.

Dear WH,

I want to apologize for my part in helping to make the environment seem right for your affair with OW. We know now that we both became complacent and we took you and our relationship for granted. I foolishly thought that my vote was worth more since I made more money and in doing so I completely disregarded you and your needs. That was completely unfair to both of us.


If this is what you really mean to say, then give the others @ MB a chance to critique your letter. Don't expect your letter to be well received by the WS. What we did try to do was give him your message while making it hard for him to find points to blame you. This will then force him (when he reads it) to recall more of your real message vs his fog babble.

Be patient. The wait for others to review your letter.

JMHO,
L.

You're the only one who knows if the time is truly right for Plan B or not. Plan B is demanding. It's a line drawn in the sand, an ultimatum.

You can't go at it without devoting yourself to it, because the 'back and forth' results will be further damaging to the relationship. You have to stick with it, until your boundaries are respected.

As with any ultimatum, there's the possibility that you will lose. That said, what is it that you have right now, today? You've got a WH, not a Husband.

When you've done the best Plan A that you're capable of, and you're barreling full-tilt right into Plan D anyway....Plan B just makes good sense. It's putting on the brakes BEFORE you hit the big D.

I think your letter is coming along really well. You've had great suggestions. Use those concepts. But make sure that you re-write it into your own words, so that he'll recognize you speaking from your heart. (And make sure ALL your boundaries are represented. This is the road-map home. He'll need to know EXACTLY what is required of him.)

Try not to have a negative exchange in the delivery of the Plan B letter. It's preferable if his last contact with you is a positive one. You want him to remember how NICE you are....while he's facing the consequences of his actions. YOU are the port in the storm....the safe haven.

If you can't deliver it in person with grace and dignity, then consider sending it to him by mail or e-mail.

Good luck, hon. And don't rush. If you aren't ready yet, it's best to cancel the monday meeting as was suggested earlier by White Daisy.


One more thought for you...

The Plan B letter is a love letter. Tell him WHY you love him. Tell him what you find to be wonderful and unique about him. Tell him what he brings to your life and to the family. The Plan B letter is, in actuality, his last taste of you....unless he comes back to the table.

Basically, my boundaries that I know I have now are:

1. Zero contact with OW;
2. Stop all adult website and internet personals stuff;
3. Wear wedding ring;
4. Stop presenting self as divorced and available;
5. Begin marriage counciling.

Are these boundaries or just demands? Honestly I can't see myself being satisfied if he doesn't meet them all.

Should I really write all that in the letter? If so, can anyone offer some suggestions on *how* to write that in?


LadyJ - I certainly agree that my M as it stands today is not what I want. I am also starting to look divorce in the face and I don't want that either. Plan B seems to me the only real alternative in that it will save what love I have left for my WH, should he decide to make some changes. It also seems that it will prepare me for the D if WH decides to not make any changes.

Question?
WH said yesterday that *I* am the one hurting myself at this point by looking at his personal ad, seeing that he and the OW have both joined this club, etc. Is that true? Am I hurting myself by doing this? I mean, I didn't expect to see OW on the member list of this club and was(am) angry about it, but I didn't go looking for it.

OK, so I ask YOU, what are YOU going to "say" or "do" if he crosses the "boundaries" YET AGAIN?

I read your list with some profound sadness, because in a million years I could not imagine having to have a list like you created and have to feel that I had to "negotiate" to get it....uyyy veyyyyy.....but that is just me...I am certainly an odd ball among this group here.... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />


It is my personal opinion, that the talk of "boundaries" around here is usually alot of pure unadulterated BS if one doesn't do anything to protect them or enforce them.

Boundaries are nice to talk about and all, but relatively meaningless IN REAL LIFE, if not not enforced.

Just my .02

Lem

When my husband and I were going through all our trouble, I spent ALOT of time thinking about boundaries. There were things that I wanted....and there were things that I needed. The things that I "wanted", I tossed aside for awhile. Those were extras that could be negotiated after the crisis. (He had a list of "wants" too as it turned out. And today, we're both getting our lists filled most of the time.)

But at first, I only dealt with the things that I "needed", and they were NOT negotiable. I only dealt with what I required of him in order to remain willing to be his wife. Now, I kept these items VERY basic....but he knew fully well that I would end the marriage if he couldn't provide them to me.

My shortlist was:

* Fidelity
* Fiscal Responsibility
* Mutual Forgiveness
* Honesty and Openness
* No Real-Life Contact with Cyber-Friends

I didn't require more of him than that. And here's where it gets WEIRD<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />.....

Much like your husband, he was also behaving inappropriately with women that he met in interactive online porn venues. One would think that I would insist that he stop talking to them altogether.

But it seemed to me that a boundary like that was more of a "want". I didn't need for him to give that up.... not until he could do it of his own volition. I just knew that he'd have to work his way out of the fantasy on his own. He's like that. You can't tell him nothin'. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Nope, I wanted him to stop online chat with them. I needed him to not see them in person, or talk with them on the phone, or give them personal information.

I don't know if the way I handled it is unusual or not. But it worked gangbusters. He was able to find out for himself that the OW was NOT all that special. In fact, what he found out is that she's fairly tawdry. He was actually quite horrified to realize what he had almost done. (I busted him a mere week before he was planning on meeting her in person.)

Anyway, the question you need to ask yourself is, "What does it take for you to even be WILLING to be his wife at this point?" And when you've answered it....those are your boundaries.

When you've narrowed it down to the absolute minimum, it's not that difficult to uphold the boundaries. You've gotten down to the bare bones of what you can live with.

Then, it's pretty easy to see Lemonman's point regarding "what do you do if...." Because if your husband crosses the boundaries of 'what it takes to be willing to be his wife'....you won't WANT to be his wife anymore.

I do think that the boundaries are worth inclusion in the Plan B letter. You don't have to present them as demands...but rather as the goal you are visualizing in your marriage.

i.e. 'Husband, I have so many dreams for us. I dream of a marriage where we exalt in our partnership, where we wear our wedding bands proudly, because we are FULL with pride for each other.

I dream of honesty and faithfulness and love, that lasts for our entire lifetime, into our elder years and perhaps even beyond. A life in which, we [i]enhance one another's individuality, and yet remain joined together in absolute partnership, as one nucleus which the world itself must revolve around.

These "dreams" are within our grasp. That's the frustrating part of it. Because with the help of marriage counseling, and without the interference of other people, the dream that we initially based our marriage upon is still alive....as long as our love can last.

I am hurt at your withdrawal from me. I'm trying sooooo very hard to preserve our love. But I just can't bear to take on any more damage.

I love you very much.[/i] (Insert WHY here) [i]It breaks me in half not to see you every day. I long to be in your arms and to feel whole again. But until you're ready to meet me halfway, I just can't see you anymore.'

Orchid: Your boundaries are what you require to help you heal. They are not threats, demands or wants. They are real needs. The kind that will push you over the edge.

Think carefully. You need to keep your boundaries short and simple.

Ex:

My boundary ended up being just 1. [color:"red"] No OW in my life. [/color] Can't control the WS but I could control what touched my life.

What that meant was whenever, I felt the OW touch my life (a phone call, e-mail, WS/OW meet and I learned of it).... plan B came out and out the door the Xws turned WS went. He could have been cleverly hiding it until they slipped or she could have gotten bored and decided to rile me up....didn't matter the reason.... I found contact of any sort..... I did not feel safe.... out he went.

A few times of that and the WS felt like a revolving door. I didn't, he did. Each time he returned, the stakes for his return went up....not down, up. Told him he'd better get it right soon or else he wouldn't be able to drive down our street. LOL!!! Not a threat....this was for real.... I had reason to file an RO due to his previous WS episodes.

So whatever you decide, keep the boundary list short and simple. Have a plan of what you will do (not think about doing should he break those boundaries). That is why it is critical your mind and heart be in sync.




Orchid: Babble. Pure babble. U R hurt by his bad acts. Let him know this. Then let him know that he is now untrust worthy. That you fear being around him since he appears to enjoy bringing pain to his family. NO explanations, just info.

Remember there is a big difference between threats vs real boundaries.

BTW, Lemonman is correct. Boundaries become threats if you don't have a plan to enforce it.

Lemonman, good to see you posting. Been wondering how'a been. Mel seemed to give us both a swift kick on that other thread. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

JMHO,
L.

The Plan B letter is your answer to his comment. Yes, you are caught up in the chaos. True, it's his chaos, but you're making a choice to be in it with him. You'll probably be happier, no matter how this plays out, if you extricate yourself from the drama.

When you're in plan B, you won't know what he's up to anymore. Are you ready for that?

LOL.........Orchid

I am doing fine, how are you?...I was on a vacation/conference for a few days last week....and the weekends are consumed with ungodly hours of watching college and pro football... Mel's "swifts kicks" to me <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />will NEVER be the reason that I leave here, and actually I think I would probably hate it if her and I agreed about many things and I became some stepford who followed her every word like it was gospel or something.......pulleeeze.....See ya on the boards <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />

**temporary T/J over*****

Lem <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Lem, I would hate it too if we agreed on everything, which is why I can take YOUR swift kicks like a big girl. [and you have dealt quite a few yourself] I promise not to follow your every word like a stepford wife if you promise not to follow mine. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> Glad you're back., LM. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Thanks you guys. Got kind of a love/hate thing going right now with ya I have to say. You all make me *think* - I mean really THINK about what I'm doing. It's a good thing...but hard just the same. Keep doing it k? I need it!

Lemonman - You're right, what will I do if he crosses the line I draw?

LadyJ - Very good point, think about what I "need" vs. what I "want". There is a distinct difference and I do know that if left alone there are some things he is able to "work his way out of". I need to determine which is a need and which is a want.

Orchid - I very much like the way you presented your boundary "No OW in my life. Can't control the WS but I could control what touched my life." I also liked the way you enforced your boundary consistently. Ya got some brass ones, ya do. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

After some thinking <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> I came up with what I really need and am willing to enforce:

1. Remain faithful to me.
2. No OW in my life. (thanks Orchid)
3. No Real-Life Contact with Cyber-Friends (thanks LadyJ)

Should any of these be broken, he must leave. Period. This is a list I feel much better about. Seems weird but it makes more sense than trying to negotiate something like wearing his ring. These are the real issues, to me.

Lemonman...I understand what you mean about boundaries, but just curious, does this list make more sense to you?

Emailed OWH last night and found out today that their divorce will be final on Oct. 11th. Should I still consider putting Plan B into motion??

I am afraid that you may be missing the point here.....MY BOUNDARIES are probably going to be a whole ****** of alot different than yours.......in the end though, you have to do what is comfortable and livable FOR YOU.

I don't want you to get the impression that you have to form or make "boundaries" that are "acceptable" for us or "make sense"....trust me girl, what is acceptable and "unacceptbale" to me is about 99% different than what some others say here, so remember this is all individual.

I ask that you please DO NOT "dumb down" your boundaries and needs to please other people (least of all your cheating spouse).

For the record, I think your ORIGINAL list was splendid (for me that is), and IF IT WERE ME, would not "dumb it down" even an inch....but this is your life, your call....YOU, NOT I, live with the consequences.

Remember the concept of 100% responsibilty for your life.....TOTAL RESPONSIBILITY.

Lem <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Thanks for that Lemonman. I don't feel that I've dumbed my list down. I guess I did miss your point earlier. I'm still not quite sure what you meant trying to negotiate with that list.

Anyway, the 3 points I came up with are what I would define as my needs to feel safe enough to continue, secure enough to start to rebuild trust and confident enough to feel that I haven't compromised myself.

By listing *my* boundaries I have been able to learn more about boundaries and demands as a whole which has been very enlightening for me.

Thanks! Keep the good stuff coming. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

This is a good question. I'm curious to see what you experienced MBers have to say about this.

Me too NW.

So...since OW is about to become divorcedOW next week, is going into Plan B now a good idea?

Also, latest from WH "I just don't think I can be married now" as a response to me asking to start MC again. He also says he's having D papers "drawn up". <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />