This morning while exercising I was listening to a talk radio station that, on Sundays, airs a show called The Jesus Christ Show

I know it sounds weird, but it's actually pretty interesting. Callers ask "Jesus" questions and the radio personality responds playing the role of Jesus. Any topic is OK.

Today "Jesus" was talking about the meaning and purpose of sex.

Some things mentioned.

If you take a yellow piece of paper and glue it to a blue piece of paper ... and you carefully separate the two papers ... it doesn't matter how slowly or how carefully you do it, some part of one paper will always be stuck to the other paper. And so it is when we share our bodies sexually.

Sex is so powerful and so connected to our souls by design (by God) that there is no such thing as "casual sex".

When sex is treated as "casual sex" it diminishes the purpose and the meaningfulness God intended sex to have.

It got me thinking about this board, and the people on this board, and myself in my younger days when I was part of the 60's culture "make love not war" .... and how much I lost the deeper meaning of sex when I gave it away as if it had no value.

Why do we do that? Why are we inclined to take something so precious and so lovely and demean ourselves and soil our bodies with casual sex or affairs or even on-line or phone sex??? Not to mention the horrors of porn. Lowering sex to the status of voyurism and reducing the value of another human being to an erection or an orgasm.

I guess ... I would like to ask a question:

To you personally, what (if anything) makes sex beautiful and special? How do you feel sex can elevate you spiritually?

Thanks..... should be interesting reading <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

The answer for me to this question is connected with my exasperation when I hear folks say; "It's JUST SEX when BSes are with their WSes...

When I am with my H, it is NEVER JUST SEX...

I'll be thinking on this...

OT to PEP:

Did you get your SIG LINE from the game TUMBLEBUGS? The BUG told me something like your SIG LINE today....

Mimi, I told you Pep was playing tumblebugs ages ago on YOUR thread!

look at my new sig line <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Pep

I wish I had been more sexually active in my youth. God Knows I had the opportunity but it never felt right.

Squid's my only ever.

I am sure it wouldn't have taken so long for me to heal if I had known other people sexually too.

I don't like to dwell on the bonds forged by affair sex. I am remnded that ther are three 'flesh' people in our bed when we make love. And I don't want to remember that when we are enjoying each other.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

I'm with you on this, b0b. AJ is my first and only, thus one of my biggest struggles from resentment is because I waited for him my whole life.

I don't regret remaining, um Pure, (sorry b0b <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />) just for my own sake, but ever since our vows were violated I have lost the sacred and holy element that always used to mark our lovemaking, or at least the feeling of it.

My head has faith that the same God who sanctified our love in the beginning has already covered us again with His benediction. I expect to someday feel it again, too.

NSYN, you describe it exactly. I am getting accustomed to a new feeling of 'ordinaryness' in our sexuality. Just like everyone else. Affairs sure are crap.

Pepperband,
In the days leading up to and after discovery day, making love was the one thing that gave me hope. It was the one thing I could do for my husband, to show how much I cared for him. I also have rubbed his back and body every night since the discovery day. I knew it was the one thing that he could get pleasure out of, and for me the act of touching his skin fed my inner child that felt unloved and rejected.
I cuddle with him almost every night now. It might not be for the whole night, but it happens for a few minutes at least. The funny thing about this, is that prior to discovery day, I would get clausterphobic if w/h and I would cuddle or spoon. The clausterphobia is now gone.
I am still waiting for the day my husband says he loves me. We have such a long way to go yet.

Sex has always had a deeper meaning for me than my wife. She was more promiscuous than I in her younger days (a fact that I accept and am fine with), but it has the effect of lessening the meaning of it for her, at least it seems that way to me. I feel that the sex is the physical enactment of our emotional bond, and she seems to regard it as mostly "just sex" (not always, there have been some truly earth-shattering "LOVE MAKING" moments, but not many).

For me, to feel sexually fulfilled and to experience sex the way God intended it to be, the sexual act must be a physical, emotional and spiritual experience with a life-long partner. It’s the emotional and spiritual component of sex which makes it beautiful to me – and also that wonderful feeling of “being one in flesh” to the man God has chosen as my life-long partner and the one I’m committed to.

I can’t have sex just for the physical enjoyment of it – I can’t even imagine it – and this is way “casual sex” and things like porn etc. is so disgusting to me. For me, there must be a emotional component, intimacy and deep commitment before I can enjoy sex physically.

My H has been the only man I ever totally give myself to physically and up to this day I have never regretted it. Yes, there has been times I wondered how it would feel to be with another man and where I had sexual thoughts, but those thoughts were wrong, evil and from Satan.

The following is the most beautiful and breathtaking description of sex I’ve ever read (Pep, you’ve shared it one these boards and this is where I’ve read it – in one of your posts <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />):

The above is SO beautifully and wonderfully said and written…and I believe this is the real & deep meaning of sex in marriage and how God created it. And this is how sex between a man and his wife is supposed to be: Clean, neat, deep & meaningful… I believe “making love” is one of the highest forms of intimacy a man and woman can reach physically, emotionally & spiritually. But what happen in this world we are living in? People get influenced by Satan and use this beautiful act which is suppose to take place between one woman and one man in marriage and reduce it to something sinful, cheap and ugly by practicing sex outside marriage, adultery, sexual abuse, rape etc. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Suzet that description is from Eldredge's 'Wild at heart".

A great book that contextualises Christian masculinity.

I agree its a great description of lovemaking, but in the context of a PA its very hurtful for a BH to read. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Bob and notso....NOT picking on you either at all..but I am surprised to hear you say that you believe being more sexually active in your youth would be a good thing....

It is in exact opposite of what this post is saying about GODS GIFT of human sexuality....

I would say that you would most likely be at more risk for damages and skewed perceptions about the sex if you had engaged in such behavior..

There is no greater self or outer disrespect shown when we use sex for the easy aspects of it...and disregard the deeper nurturing parts....

feeling good sex is the easy part..heck teenagers body parts are ready to feel good long before their true self is cemented enough to handle the realities of Gods sexual gift.

Holding on to the whole package of the gifts of human sexuality...
can not be diminished on your part by the actions of someone elses..

spouses engagement in affair sex....
is the act of them moving pretty much as far away from God as one can get....
there is NOTHING to it but the empty feel good part...
and the acute rationalization of ones mind that it is something more than it is....
for it is even less than a good thing...

Please don't misunderstand my rantings as some holier than though approach to sex...

I think it's about the grooviest thing on this planet....

and when shared within a relationship that has the total nurturing and cherishing aspects supporting it...
within that realm
anything goes
and it's pretty much ALL good....
AND
the ability to really share and be vulnerable is what makes it good...and those basic elements are not present in an affair

when people choose the sex side bought on time of lies and deception
when people choose the sex side bought on the reality of the inability to really cherish and be there even based on logistics...can't really be there for someone when one is expected home for the spouse that day...etc...
then it becomes just a reflection...and the people doing it are far removed from where they should be.........
and it truly becomes an act of using ones self and the other person...

here's things I believe affair sex says about WS and OP

"I will use you to make me feel good...but I will not care enough about you to do anything else but feel good...."

"I will go to great lengths to protect our and your identity so that we can continue to have sex....but we will only be our little secret...."

"I will take the sexual part of two people and elevate it in our heads....BUT I will not share nor celebrate the talents and gifts God has given you with those in my life"

there is nothing eneviable of affair sex in my opinion...it is the kind that leaves ones cold in ones soul...for it is a mockery of what God intended it to be...
on some levels it is even becomes a volatile weapon that wounds many...
and God never ever intended his gift to be a weapon...

ARK^^

Beautifully said Ark.

Susan

Ark I agree your post was thoughtful and accurate.

I do not REALLY wish I had been with more partners. I just think that perhaps I would have lost less through Squid's affair than I actually did.

And also I feel a bit 'mugged' to be honest. Everyone else on earth has multiple sexual conquests to recall, even Squid now.

It felt special in my old marriage, but now I just feel like a wierdo. Like no-one else can understand how PRECIOUS the single flesh bond Squid and I had was to me.

That value, coupled with afear of God is what stopped me having an afair I think.

Whiel Squid dropped her knickers tout-de-suite when the opportunity arose. Wasn't precious to her was it ?
Its like I have this jewel that I think is BEAUTIFUL but everyone else thinks is valueless and I am weird and unrealistic to consider such valuable.

I need to learn to value sex in a different way. Its hard though.

Finally I truly believe that when Squid and OM were writhing together she felt what she percived was utter love and devotion to him. It only became tawdry to her in retrospect. She actialy said to me after we first had sex a coupla months after d-day that "Its only sex,it doesn't mean anything else". She told ME that OUR SF was meanigless after the beauty he had shared with OM.

And people wonder why I want OM dead.

I don't think there's anything particularly special about this common biological function.

It's what's going on in your head that makes the difference.

I disagree that the act itself is "magical" and creates some kind of "bond". Workers in the trade will understand what I'm saying.

The "bond" occurs because we feel a need to assign significance to this kind of intimacy. It's a function of our culture that we have difficulty differentiating the act from true intimacy.

You wanna know what I consider to be even more intimate than SF? FINANCIAL INTEGRATION. I think you'll find that a couple's willingness to merge their finances is much more indicative of their level of trust and intimacy than SF.

This need to assign SF some high spiritual significance has created some problems for me. I have a need for "playfulness" and "fun" in SF. SF is not always going to be some high spiritual event. I don't want to have to go into it with rope tied around my ankle.

Sometimes it's great to slay the dragon and rescue the princess. Sometimes it's just fun to sneak up the back stairs while the dragon sleeps <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

In contrast to many Christian views, I believe people should experience SF before they marry. I think it'd be great tragedy to discover severe SF problem on your honeymoon. One should know their future spouse in the most intimate of ways BEFORE you make that big decision to spend your life with them.

I know it won't be a popular view here...but it's just how I feel.

Low

ARK:

I agree sooo much with your post. It is soo well-stated..

Like BOB and Not So, I have not been with anyone else either except for my FWH.. I was terrified with the thought of facing establishing a R with someone else if we had not reconciled. I felt awful about the notion of casual sex and I knew that I was getting to the point of physically craving Sex..for the first time in my life...the lack of it was beginning to affect me physically....

My sexual relationship with my H, when we are together, then and now, remains the same...extremely spiritual...it certainly is not JUST ABOUT the feeling good...physical release..the fun of it, etc. I agree with you, ARK. I think that's what it was about with her..

I know this. When he was with me then and now, our "love-making" has remained SPIRITUAL in ways that I can hardly describe. So, I don't feel at all BAD about this aspect of his A...We have maintained our SEXUAL CONNECTION and OUR INTIMACY has gotten deeper and stronger...

My predominant pain was over other aspects of himself that he shared with the OW...that he developed a RELATIONSHIP with her..that he developed a FRIENDSHIP with her..that he gave her TIME with HIMSELF...

But I realize now that he did not share his SOUL with her and did not make a LIFE COMMITMENT to her...I maintained this position in his HEART...

I know we've struggled with this Ark and others...but I believe it's because I maintained my sexual relationship with him throughout his affair....

We both love each other and are committed to be together. Between Dday 1 (July 16th - my wife and the OM were just close friends) and Dday 2 (Sept 1st - she admitted they were in love) we were intimate once/twice weekly (our normal) but not at all in the 5 weeks since DDay 2.

I took 3 weeks for my desire for intimacy to return but hers has yet to. We have plenty of hugs, kisses and cuddles (5-6 times per day)

Is this lack of desire for intimacy on my WWs part normal?

I think those basic elements can very well be present in an affair. They were in mine.

It's Harley's theory that we start looking outside of marriage when we stop looking to our spouse to meet our emotional needs.

When you LOSE the ability to be vulnerable with your spouse...when you feel that you are not valued or appreciated...married sex loses it's "grooviness".

I had an affair because I desperately wanted to be vulnerable, cherished, and nurtured...as did the OW.

This can happen in an affair. I don't think BS like hearing this, but truth be told, this is the thing that makes recovery so damn hard...not the act of SF, but the emotional involvement. because we went elsewhere to be cherished, nurtured, and vulnerable.

Is healthy married sex better? Of course it is! Is affair sex ALWAYS "empty"? No, I don't think so.

That is the hope I hold...that I can have the nurturing, cherishing, vulnerable SF in my marriage. Because...and we agree on this...I believe it can be better than my affair relationship ever could've been.

Am I advocating my affair? Absolutely not. I'd never do it again in a million years and wouldn't do it if I had it to go over again...but I'm not going to tell you that I didn't take away some valuable lessons from it.

Low

Bob, this statement in bold is not true. I understand how it might feel this way to you, but in spite of all the lack of morals and liberal lifestyle in this world, there are still MANY people out there who had only ONE sexual partner in their life - their spouse. I know of some on these boards AND in my personal life. They are still out there. And you are definitely not a ‘weirdo’ because of your sexual pureness. You must feel proud off it. Your sexual pureness is something NOBODY can EVER take away from you and it is very precious and valuable in God’s eyes. I think Squid lost more than you can ever imagine when she gave herself sexually to the OM – she has forever lost that precious and valuable ‘pearl’ – that same ‘pearl’ YOU still have and nobody can take away from you. I don’t think Squid feels proud about the fact that she can also recall multiple sexual conquest now… Not al all… In fact, I think she feels the exact opposite and very much regrets it.

Low, if you need validation at all, I certainly can tell you that you speak my FWH's words exactly...

Like you, he says...


He felt rejected by me and, I guess, as you say, sex no longer felt "groovy"..

However, I gather that at some point he realized that although he was attracted to her for emotional connection, not just sex, the emotional connection was not REALLY there. So their "relationship" became based on ugliness and sordidness, "casual sex"....trying to get the emotional connection to return but it never did once IN THE LIGHT OF DAY...

I am talking about the bursting of the fantasy..that the OP is not the really the IDEAL....

But, once he was with me again.. and he realized that I was able to nurture him, etc, again...my ability to connect with him and to provide sexual FULFILLMENT..had been maintained...and had never gone away....

Low you said:



So how come this isn't SPIRITUAL?

PLAYFULNESS AND FUN ARE SPIRITUAL!!!

Where do these notions come from? Are you saying that, sex as you describe it, is SINFUL?

I'm confused here, LOW...

FINANCIAL INTEGRATION IS MORE SPIRITUAL THAN SEX? Come on, you're kidding, right???