Adulterors lie. All of them. I have not met one yet who is not lying in one way or another.

The lies are to keep things secret.

Why are affairs kept secret most of the time?

.... because there is an element of shame involved, is my opinion.

not so groovy shame

And who said SF being an emotional and spiritual experience can’t include “playfulness” and “fun”. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Wow, this view is typical of the modern and liberal society of today. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> So LO, are you saying that it’s okay for people to have multiple sexual partners before they get married? So people must sleep with a partner and if they have a SF problem with that specific partner they must move on to another partner and continue on like this until they find the partner they want to get married to? I can tell you that this view and practice in this world have created more problems than you can ever imagine… Research and statistics have shown that people who sleep around before M and/or living together with their partner before M, have a bigger chance to divorce after M and those people have a greater tendency to screw around after M as well because SF within M have lost value for them… How sad.

What is different between

working hard to buy a great car

and stealing someone else's great car?

Do both drivers of the great cars experience the same smooth exceleration?

Do both drivers of the great cars show off their ride to their family?

Do both drivers of the great cars choose darkened streets so no one will see the car?

Yes, SF with your partner is SHAMELESS...

Although there may be an emotional connection with the affair partner, particularly in a LTA, once the A is brought out into the light, there is SHAME.....

That's what I meant when I said that the A, once held up as the answer ("I've found my soulmate"), began to be experienced as ugly and nasty during PLAN B...

A large part of it, I think, is the BINGING that goes on to try to maintain the FANTASY and THE HIGH.....

Slight OT, but related...It's almost ironic that this subject has come up as the last week has been a rough for me in that regard.

I miss it...I really do. I have been sorely tempted to do things that I wouldn't normally do simply to scratch the "itch" that won't go away.

But that voice in my head, once I have a quiet moment, tells me what to do.

I pulled myself from the precipice this weekend and, truth be told, I am very glad for it.

I am sure that any decent woman would not want to hear how I used to be a WH, PLUS, how I turned into a man-****** once I was "single" again. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

I already have too much to explain away regarding my behavior...don't need anymore.

Back OT...it it something that should be in the context of an exclusive relationship...it is truly an intimacy builder as there is NOWHERE to hide your flaws or imperfections. As much as I enjoy the "acts", the falling asleep "spooned" together afterwards is wonderful.

I love those weekend mornings...waking up and feeling the soft naked warmth of someone for whom you would take a bullet, lying next to you...knowing they would do the same for you.

Indescribable....

Perhaps they should be...and I'm glad you see it that way. But for many, "spiritual" SF takes on an almost solemn, ceremonial flavor...complete with candles, flowers, and blood sacrifices...

Sometimes all this pomp and circumstance is just too darn much...and it ain't always fun.

I dare you to do a poll. How many in this forum would consider the introduction of a little "kink" into their bedroom to be SINFUL? I think you'll find a good number...

I don't happen to be one of them, but my wife struggles with this quite a bit.



Absolutely not...go take a look at the EN boards. It's pretty obvious. Also, look at the number of couple these days who insist on maintaining their financial privacy and independence even AFTER they are married.

Looking at someone's checkbook is a far more intimate act than looking at their genitals.

I firmly believe that a couples willingness to be open and integrated financially is a much better indicator of relationship health than their SF life.

Low

Low,

Have you read any over on The Marriage Bed discussion forums? Sex CAN and SHOULD be fun in a Christian marriage.

Dear Loworbit,
It is funny you mention this. In the beginning of the affair with o/w, my w/h mentioned that owh kept his money and she kept her money in the marriage. O/W was complaining to w/h how bad this made her feel.
W/H came home and told me how horrible it was that o/w and her husband had seperate finances, and how owh came out better because he had better paying job.
This was the start of w/h exchanging how horrible my spouse is stories with o/w. The beginning of the end.
You might be on to something Loworbit.

I feel sad for them. They are missing out on a lot in life.. We've always had that, if you want to call it "kink"... within a marital relationship....


I'm sorry, LOW. The financial stuff makes no sense TO ME. I took over my grandparent's financial affairs but never saw their genitals.....

SEXUAL FULFILLMENT HOLDS SPARK AND PASSION FOR ME...NOT CHECKBOOKS...

You may be onto an important aspect of a marital relationship but I wouldn't go so far as to call this SPIRITUAL, though. My H wants me to handle the money in our R, even wanted me to maintain our joint checking account during his A. I continued to have access to most of his funds....

He certainly didn't share his FULL financial worth with the FOW. He spent cash money on her but HIS TOTAL WORTH AND HIS CHECKING ACCOUNTS....No way...

Low, where do you get these ideas?? What "pomp and circumstance?" I think you somehow have the notion that MORAL [what does "spiritual" mean???] sexual relations have to be BORING! Boredom is not inherent in morality. My DH and I are not only Christians whose relations are moral, but we can be very kinky. He is a major Ho-DAWG. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

So, Melody:

What does this make you? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

First, this view is not particularly modern. It becomes more practical to implement with the availability of effective birth control methods...which are more modern.

Second, there is a great difference between promiscuity and pre-marital sex (you seem to equate the two).

Third, if they discover an insurmountable SF issue, wouldn't it only make sense to find that out BEFORE you make a lifelong commitment?

I would counter that failure of couples to know each other well before they marry is the REAL reason you see so many marriage failures. The Church is just doing a pathetic job of helping couples with this.

I have told my daughters that they will not have my blessing to marry unless they participate in an extensive pre-marital training program. I expect that part of that program will address SF compatibility issues.

Otherwise, I reckon this is one of those issues that we'll have to agree to disagree on.

Low

I refuse to answer on the grounds that I WILL incriminate mybadself! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Low:

This is a personal question that you might not want to answer...

No, "wild and kinky sex with your wife?"

And why not?

I get these ideas from being ejected from the bedroom for making the "wrong move". For saying the "wrong thing". I often feel like I have to watch my step lest I sully our holy union. I'd love to be able to be as uninhibited as you ladies seem to be, but I fear it would be very costly.

I have these ideas, because it has been my experience.

It's an extension of our general conflict...introduction of anything "different" implies inherent dissatisfaction with the "current state".

Low

Low, other people don't have those experiences. Do you know that? Moral does not mean boring. The issue is not the morality of your sex life, but in the quality of your relations.

How old is your wife?

Low, I guess it makes sense that you wouldn't connect sexually with your W, because you don't connect emotionally. For women, sex is an emotional thing. For you, it is a physical thing. If you could ever resolve the emotional thing, the sex would follow.

Low~

Were you and/or your wife raised Catholic by chance? I don't mean to offend anyone with that question, I just think we might all have a better understanding of where Low is coming from if we knew the answer to it...

Mrs. Wondering

Mid forties, a little younger than you. I happen to agree that moral SF doesn't have to be boring.

But the issue arises when you are negotiating what is "moral" and "immoral".

There is a school of thought running rampant in Christianity that any activity that indulges sensuality becomes inherently sinful. This would include adventurous SF. Of course, we tend to be choosy about what we want to be sensual about and what we don't. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

Nope. She - As southern protestant as you can get. Me - I wasn't raised in any particular faith.