I think because if he can TURN this around and make this about you - I wish I could explain this a bit better, I sure am trying - then he wouldn't be the "bad" one.

My H, at that time, was never wrong..EVER.. Now, if I bring something up that he said to me during all of this, he will look puzzled and I truly believe he doesn't remember. The fog, I suppose.

He's mad at you for finding out. It's a way for him not to take the blame right now for what he's done and what he's doing. These types aren't the bad guys, right?

I know I'm talking in circles...I'm sorry. I do think your friend is correct, though Mrs S has a point. Men that like physical intimacy dont just withhold. It's mostly the act with them, right ? I know there were days when my H would have been with the OW AND then came and tried with me.. ick.. but, then there were times when I had gotten some info..or such and he knew it.. and he'd withhold. Physical intimacy is how a man expresses love in HIS book, right ?

At least that is how a MC put it once. Women like conversation..men like...

If he withholds, then he's not giving you any satisfaction in knowing he cares in HIS book.

And, this is punishment. It took a very long time for my H to admit that he loved me again, though I knew it all along, or he'd have been long gone and with the OW.

It's a shame that some proud men think they have to come out on top. Eh, let him think he is, if he needs to.. the important thing in the end is keeping your family together no matter who HE thinks made the choice.

I really don't want to steer you in any wrong train of thought.. I'm simply relaying the knowledge I have of a proud man.


Blessings,

Eibrab

so are you saying that by him withholding intimacy, he DOES care but would never let me know that?????

How long can he hold out like this??????

Does this sound like the A will fizzle in time? Just curious because the calls have come down. I thought for sure they would talk a lot lastnight but it was for only 12 minutes and then two minutes today.

he's talking to her more again:
this weekend: 44 minutes

do you think i should ask him if he has any intentions of ending this or do you think his brain is still in outer space?

I think the latter but my patience is running very thin and I am feeling sick all the time.

I think the sooner your willing to stop enabling his A the better.



Absolutely not, why would you ask this? You should TELL him.

I'm afraid that you haven't really read up on the concepts here, and you don't really understand them.

Statistic says an average affair lasts 6 months after hitting the light of day...so you're sitting by and waiting for it to die out on it's own. Let me assure you, without exposure, and continuous effort on YOUR part...this thing could carry on for YEARS.

Seriously... I understand you're hurt and your confused, but you don't enable the A. Stop trying to analyze stuff, and take action....the downfall to your marriage WILL BE INACTION...I promise you this.

Why would a married man who is having an affair not leave his wife?

Well... child support, getting his own place, double the financial obligation to support 2 households.... hmmmm. Why on earth would he want to end this? Tell me one good reason.

He has the best of both worlds.... let's just say...OW is thinking along the same lines as YOU are...sooner or later YOU'll get tired of her...and she gets the prize? He's getting next to NO resistance from anyone... he's pretty much sitting in a good spot right now.

I've read that he's trying to "let her down easy"...but that was almost 3 months ago?

I'm not trying to sound harsh, honestly, but I can bring over about 3 dozen folks from the other boards ...to shed some light on the situation. It's really not in your best interest to WAIT for him to end it.

I truly don't want to lead you astray with false hopes here. I would hope that we can both trust your instincts.

In my situation, my H kept up the contact, though infrequent and always at the OW's request via voicemail or such and he returning the call, because she "had something on him" and he was afraid I'd find out.

I think Mrs S is right. You need to get tougher. I see you suffering and I hate that for you.

What can I do to help you here? The truth always comes out, but how long do you wish to wait?

I am thinking as much as I can for you... but I'm not coming up with much more.

I'm praying for you.

Eibrab

I now know where she lives--the general vicinity.

Since she has verizon cell phone, I went into their
billing info and put in her phone number and went down
the zip code listing for AZ.

She lives quite close to us. And she is almost $800
behind in her cell phone payments.


I forgot that when he gets irked at me, he calls her.

My husband is the type who is stubborn, does not apologize, and has never done anything someone else asks him to do--he does things in his own way in his own time.

Sounds pretty arrogant--huh?

HSmomx3, I agree with Betrayed in Jersey, and as I have been saying, if this is not okay with you, you need to put a stop to it. That doesn't mean Plan B. That means "I love you, I want to work on our marriage, but I did not sign on to be part of a painful love triangle. You MUST choose her or me. If you choose me, you will have NOTHING to do with her, and if you choose her, you will have NOTHING to do with me."

Then you need to get in Individual Counseling to work on backing that up with the self-confidence to act on it. Respect yourself. That isn't arrogant to do, it isn't making selfish demands. Monogomy is not a selfish demand. It is a reasonable REQUIREMENT for a good and healthy and God-centered marriage.

Even if this affair did die a natural death (in how many years?), how are you ensuring that you don't have to go thru this all over again when he meets someone new in 5 years? You need to NOT TOLERATE this behavior. Practice along with Dr. Phil, "I'd rather be healthy alone, then sick with somebody else." and just keep saying it over & over until you believe it. Life is not supposed to be THIS painful, HSMOMx3. He is cruelly taking advantage of your inability to kick him out by making you endure month after month one of the most (if not the most for many) painful experiences a human being can survive. God loves you, and God loves your WH, and God loves your kids, but He did not mean for you to have to live like this. He wants to see you married, but not with your husband committing adultery and then coming back to sleep in your marriage bed.

MSA

I am feeling much better today than I was yesterday at
this time.

A church friend called me yesterday morning and gave
me some godly advice. And she is right with what she
said. She told me that we need to make Doug feel like
he is wanted and loved and that we are glad he is home
with us.

We really have not done any of that since finding out
what has been going on.

So, yesterday afternoon, I left him a voice message
about another matter and then said that I loved him
and so do the kids.

When he came home at 9PM, I acted very happy to see
him and prepared his dinner, etc. I think he was in
shock that I was so nice. Eventually, I went out to
the patio in an effort to leave him alone, and about
10 minutes later, he came out. I told him I would
leave if he wanted some quiet time but he said I could
stay. That was a surprise! We talked about putting
the kids in the school at church and he thought that
would be a good idea. I then asked him if that meant
he felt I should get a full time job (I was afraid of
this thinking that he would want me to do this in
order to be self sufficient!). He said no, keep on
doing what I am doing. I was surprised.

He did not turn his back on me while in bed like he
had been but he seemed really restless. There was a
time where my hand kind of touched his leg but after a
few minutes he turned the other way. I wasn't looking
for anything to happen at all and it didn't but at
least he did not get mad at me.

This morning I got up early and made him breakfast. I
put a note in his bag and said that our Bible
discussion (the kids and I) was about forgiveness and
how we should forgive even though the sin might be
hurtful. I went on to say that I was reading thru
little notes that the kids had written to him over the
years and that words cannot describe the love they
have for him. I then went on to ask if he remembered
the card they gave him one year where the kids
favorite part of the day was when Daddy came home from
work. I said that they still like it when he comes
home everynight and that to them, they feel a sense of
security when he does come home. I then closed it by
saying that we all loved him.

I am trying to put little inspirational messages a few
times a week in his bag that he takes to work. I
don't want him to continue to feel that he is hated or
not wanted here because that is not true.

As for "her." She is part of the problem but I can no
longer contiue to focus on her. I have got to work on
bringing him home and focusing on us, less on her.

This woman must be in serious debt because she is way
behind by some $700 on her cell phone bill. I was and
still am a little worried that her ultimate goal
is/was to get me mad enough to kick him out and she
will use him to gain some financial ground. Does this
make sense?

However, I am of the belief that he will never leave
or get divorced. I did tell him that I was planning
on making our plane reservations in the spring for our
fall trip to PA and to the beach. He didn't say
anything.

I can read all the marriage books that are out there
but each situation is so different that one size
does not fit all. I feel that God has put me in this
position for a reason, whatever that may be. I really
don't know how I have functioned but I am getting thru
it. I have another meeting with the pastor next week
as well.

Sometimes it does not appear that prayers are answered
but they have been--I have asked for strength,
guidance and wisdom and I think God has helped me with
that. I also prayed about the alcohol situation and
those prayers were answered. And you know what my
final prayer is--to open his eyes to what he has/is
doing.

As for my telling him about her cell phone being
registered in another man's name, etc. I don't know
if or when I will tell him about this. In time, I
might but not just yet.

That is my news for the day.

Thanks for your prayers and support.

Agreed.

What happened to Thou shalt not commit adultery?

I think you keep overlooking that one.

hsmomX3

Prayers continuing. You know best. We just want the best for you sooner than later :-) .

I'd be careful about the cell-phone bit. If he knows that you know this.. he might also figure out that you are checking HIS line. There must be a way....

I'm behind you.

Blessings,

Eibrab

I understand your church friend's attitude of love love love. That is Plan A as well, in addition to boundaries. However, as I told my H when he was wayward, God eventually judges as well, and there are things that God won't tolerate in the end too. This was in response to his popular line when I drew boundaries of telling me, "Well, you're not Jesus." as if I was being un-Christlike by drawing boundaries and requiring anything from him. I happen to believe that God requires a lot from us as Christians, the Bible tells me so. Love is the answer, no doubt, but you are showing him unconditional love right now when I know that NO ADULTERY boundaries are far more appropriate.

I am always struck that you really seem okay with it. I have to ask you, are you in denial that he is having sex with another woman? Do you believe that he is not? Or does it not bother you that he has sex with her and then comes home and has sex (or doesn't) with you? Honestly, I think you know me enough by now to know that I don't mean that cruelly in any way, I just can't understand why you are okay with that. ???

I believe that your church friend, while well-intentioned and trying to get you to express God's love to your husband, is giving you advice that will have this affair going on indefinitely. And perhaps another after this one. The LOVE that you are to show to your H, unconditional, total & complete, the forgiveness, is AFTER he repents and ASKS for your forgiveness, when he is SORRY. Not now. And as I used to tell my three-year-old, "Sorry means don't do it again." Anyone can say they're sorry. Change the behavior, and I start to believe them...

Again, I recommend the IC to examine why you are so afraid of drawing reasonable boundaries with your WH, and why you think you have to live like this. God loves marriage, God hates divorce, but God does not tolerate adultery. Why are you?

MSA

Can she sleep in another bedroom to start to prove the point making it less drastic, as she seems to prefer? Making it very undramatic, and still keeping her pleasant attitude and doing as her church beliefs lead her would help the attitude of not condoning the A?

Think that may help?

I'm really not trying to be too soft here, Mrs S. I suppose I just feel so much for her and the way that this man might think.

You push, Mrs S.. I'll pull :-)

Eibrab

I don't know, Eibrab. I weigh out, do I just not understand something here about her WH? So I asked Mr. STOWaway, "What if after the relapse I just said it's okay, you work it out, I'll just love love love on you & forgive you, and wait to see what you decide?" His answer, "That would have been nice." haha.

I said, "No seriously, really, I want to give good advice. Would that have worked. Unconditional love expressed daily in the midst of the affair. Acceptance. No questions asked. No demands made."

His answer? "I would have lost respect for you."

So that's my take on it. As for if SHE should sleep in another bedroom? No, he should be on the couch as long as he keeps calling OW and having unaccounted for time. A couch in a different house IMHO. I know people here at MB aren't usually for separation, but when WS will NOT get off the fence, I don't know WHY HSmomX3 has to live like this.

Eibrab, you took a softer approach, and your H is like her H, but are you happy with your recovery to date? With the information, or lack thereof, that your H provides to you? With the level of accountability that your H gives you? I don't know, I worry that the "softer approach" will lead to an incomplete recovery, if any recovery at all. He may never quit the A at this point.

But if I know anything from personal experience, it's that people only hear (self INCLUDED) what they want to hear, what they are ready to hear, and they only act on what they believe in and what intuitively makes sense to them. That being said, I just mean to put other ideas forward.

MSA

Mrs. S, you have some very valid points. In my situation, though I was living as his wife, we were not legally married at the time of the A. I think outside folks thought we were. I suppose, that I - in the end - took the kind approach because I knew if I went Plan B. I would not ever be back with this man. And, that is not what I wanted for my family. I felt that God had given me some super human strength to put up with this whole thing, so I must have been meant to be there. I would not, in any normal dealing, have put up with even a fraction of this garbage.

In the beginning, hsmomX3, I was mean and confrontational. I was unglued. It didn't work. It got me farther out the "door". Your statement..


"My husband is the type who is stubborn, does not apologize, and has never done anything someone else asks him to do--he does things in his own way in his own time."

Hits home. The more I pushed. The more he stood firm. In hindsight, he didn't want this woman. But SHE was being nice to him when I wasn't. When I started being nice. My world changed... slowly. In looking back, over all the problems we've had with this, I am glad I didn't do anything rash. It's taken a LONG time for him to open up to me and actually converse.. but it's happening now. I think the pain and trauma from all of this is dealt with in each of our own way. The "proud" man is a bugger to deal with. But you know what, hsmomX3 ? I find my H less and less "proud" as the days go on. Maybe this whole ordeal was God's way of making him see what he was and how he treated others?

I agree with Mrs. S. Something's got to give. I promise to do some serious thinking on what in my opinion.

I still feel this whole ordeal is very similiar to mine. I wish that I could help more.

Blessings,

Eibrab

I absolutely agree that it is a very sound MB principle of NO LOVEBUSTING. Eibrab, you state you were mean and confrontational. Let me be very clear. Drawing a boundary of self-respect in NO WAY implies that you will be mean or confrontational. You must often be resolute and firm. But never yelling, never angry.

God has given us ALL super human strength to put up with this whole thing, hasn't He? Wow, He amazed me during our separations during the A, and therefore my behavior amazed my WH. It came STRAIGHT from God.

HSMOMX3, it is on my heart last night and this morning to ask you, rather than consulting a friend from church (who may or may not know your entire situation or have much experience dealing with affairs), have you talked in depth to your pastor? If you were to get advice on how to handle things from someone at your church, I would think it best to get advice from a trained person who has seen MANY different situations, and isn't just speculating on what to do in your situation.

Every Christian book I read (the Bible, Hope for the Separated by Gary Chapman, Love Must be Tough, Surviving An Affair, When the One You Love Wants to Leave by Donald Harvey, Boundaries by Townsend,...) states that boundaries against adultery are necessary. I think your pastor can help you see how to integrate your beliefs with what your options are here that stand the best chance of saving your marriage.

Just thoughts,
MSA

My Wh is a lot like what Eibrab has described.

I have consulted my pastors, counselor, and others and yes, there are two choices--tell him to hit the road or stick it out.

I won't get into the details but not everyone will react in the way we think when given a choice.

I have to deal with this in a way in which I know my husband will react positively which will take time.

How very sad.

I've come across hundreds, of newly BS in my time here... almost 2 years now... and this is the first time I've come across this.


I've never heard of the options to stick it out or hit the road, from any pastor or counselor, minister or priest in all my life.

Sadly, if these were the choices posed to me at the time of my DDAY.... I'd have chosen the road.

My heart goes out to you, truly...because I don't think many of us could sit back and take the fact that our H were actively in an A in stride.

I hope the choice to "wait it out" turns out well for you.

I can barely stand to watch at this point.

Prayers to you.

Betrayed.

I understand how you feel. Dealing with this type of man and personality just doesn't even seem rational to most. But it isn't that "cut and dry".

I didn't handle myself as nicely as hsmomx3... and I can honestly, tell you.. I didn't get anywhere until I started to.

Be strong Hsmomx3. I'm here for you and praying for you and your family.

Blessings,

Eibrab

lastnight i told doug i had to take someone home from
work and said where it was at. he started to grin and
smile and i said does apt. 3038 sound familiar to
you????

He asked how I found out and i would not divulge my
source but the lady who answered the door WAS her. my
PI had the right address all along but i would never
have dreamed in a million dreams doug would be "in
love" with such a matronly looking woman.

i also asked him why her cell was in a mexican man's
name, why she is over $700 behind on cell phone
payments, etc. he never answered but felt i was being
a snoop which i was/am because as i said to him, i am
his wife.

i told him that if he did not end it i would. he
claims to love her but then i said if i would not give this woman a second look!
sounds harsh but true.

she has short (kind of punkish) reddish hair, is about
5'5, not heavy but certainly not thin and looks like
the grandmother type---it's sickening!!!!

i then said to him that God will end this in his own
way in his own time. then doug said to me: how do
you know that God hasn't already dealt with it?

i then went inside and went to bed.

i kind of thought something was up because he has been
coming home a little earlier every night and he has
been looking rather peculiar. he was in such a bad
mood lastnight that he accused me of NOT doing the
laundry like i should when in fact i only had one load
to do, which i did to make him happy lastnight.

oddly enough, i thought he would call her after this
but he did not or i should say has not as of this
writing. i wonder if he will come home tonight.

maybe i should have kept my mouth shut but i feel
really good about this.

YES!!

I'm proud of you. Stay calm. Please. And act very self-assured even though you most likely are not.

You did well for this type of man, I feel.

Did he claim to love her last night ? or was that previously? I had a feeling he was backing away from something.. It's only my feeling though and my prayer for you.

How do you feel?

Eibrab