OK, Mimi, I guess the shorter the better!

Hi, LT. I think my situation hit a cord with you.

quote:-----------------------------------------------------
Am I able to protect myself and my children better with a Plan B than D? That's what it comes down to, doesn't it?
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I personally know that I won't be able to really 'move on' until I am out of PLAN B (and into D).

OW is a teacher and WS works in the same school, but OW is 'retiring' next year and will no longer be working with WS. For now, my intention is to wait until then, summer 2006, to see which way WS goes. It does sound WS is 'moving on' if he is considering moving into a bigger appt., but I also know WS had expected to at least continue being 'friends' with me due to co-parenting. It maybe one of the unexpected consequences he may just be able to live with, especially if he expects it to get better with 'passing of time'.

I must be detaching because I am not really concerned about how WS is/will 'react' to my not be willing to do what he wants.

***Tell him that maybe at some point, you can be friends but it's a long ways away.***

Luna, I think grapegirl gave you very good advice in her post. The only part I disagree with is the above.

Do not EVER let WH think you will one day be "friends." You are not his pal, you are his wife, and as such you deserve far more consideration than what he'd give to just another casual friend.

I do not think anyone can ever go back to just being "friends" once their relationship has been sexual. I believe that's true for everyone, whether it's high school kids or a 40-year marriage.

If you tell him "someday we can be friends," he will seize that and hold on to it and not hear another word you say. He'll think "someday" means "next week."

And as Melody said, who on earth would want a "friend" who lies to them and cheats on them?
Mulan

(((Luna)))
I think you hit the nail on the head with WH not being comfortablewith plan B. He would like to think of himself as the good guy that has a great relationship with his W and mistress, being a noble and good father all the while.You being his friend and you giving permission for move would allow him to do that.

I like Mimi's response short and clear.

As I read your first post on this topic it struck me how far you've come. You are doing really well. Keep up the good work.

Thanks for your reply Mulan,

quote:------------------------------------------------------
Do not EVER let WH think you will one day be "friends." ....
If you tell him "someday we can be friends," he will seize that and hold on to it and not hear another word you say. He'll think "someday" means "next week."....as Melody said, who on earth would want a "friend" who lies to them and cheats on them?
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I agree. As the saying goes, with 'friends' like that who needs enemies! That's is why I am only telling WS that I won't consider seeing or talking to him until OW is out of the picture. It is really how I feel.

Thanks for your posting and support C42,

quote:----------------------------------------------------He would like to think of himself as the good guy that has a great relationship with his W and mistress, being a noble and good father all the while.You being his friend and you giving permission for move would allow him to do that.
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Yeah, WS is trying to convince himself that he did nothing wrong...just 'going with the flow of life'.

I like the opportunity WS is giving me to reconfirm my position, in case he wasn't taking me seriously before.

Thanks to all for replying so quickly.

I will leave him my very simple note (so he can reread whenever) to be picked up with his mail.

Just a quick question to all of you, or I may be just thinking out loud.

I am in PLAN B.

Part of the weekly 'switches' with WH includes him picking up our dog to stay the week with him and boys.

This week when he picked up the dog, he also left a bag full of vegetables (from our 'community garden') and took out the garbage because it was 'garbage night'.

The next time I 'need' to pass on a message to him, I don't plan to mention these two items at all, in any way.

I would prefer he stop doing 'nice' things, because I feel he does them out of guilt or a way of staying connected (or does he really care!....NOT). Am I encouraging him to do things I don't ask for by not saying anything? By not thanking him, will be think of me as being 'ungrateful', so he feels less guilty? Will he then stop?

At this point, I intend to communicate 'necessary' things only (I am trying to follow Mortarman's advice to Gramm), and WH can think and do whatever he wants.

I think that a big item on WH's agenda, for the sake of the kids, of course, seems to still be how to get me to be 'friends' with him. But, I am not budging!

THe only message he's getting to his attempts is: I will see and talk to him if and when OW is out of his life!

His choice, but can't have both. Right now, WH has chosen to check out the 'greener grass' on the other side.

- bumped for comments -

Luna,

You're in PLAN B.

Stick to the 'necessary' only. Ignore the rest!

I think a few of the others around here would tell you the same thing.

Hi Luna,
Don't have much advice just wanted to send some support your way.

Gee, he took the trash out! What a prince!(insert sarcasm)
The next time he comes on trash day make sure the trash is out before he gets there. He's probably waiting for you to thank him. He got his home fix. In plan B I don't think you should comment. Is he still coming in and out of the house at will?

c42, Thanks for your support.

quote:-------------------------------------------------
Is he still coming in and out of the house at will?
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Not at will, but he does have access. (We have tenants, and materials and tools which he needs for maintenance, which he does, are stored in our house's basement), and he also comes to pick up and drop dog off who also alternates, one week with WH and one week with me.

It's arranged so that we never meet.

I think next time I will make sure the trash is out before he gets a chance to do it.

Luna, sounds to me like you are handling plan B really well. I am glad you are following Gramns thread, MM is giving great advice.

Luna,
You have really come so far. You sound like you are reaching a healthier ground--and doing it for you. That's great. I bet your kids see it to. It sounds like WH hasn't quite expected your reaction. Keep to it!

I agree, don't communicate. If he wants to move, he has to decide that for himself. That's nothing to do with you anymore.

I think you are reading him dead-on. If my H asked me for permission to move, I would guarantee that he is asking because it is going to inconvenience me somehow. I have similar issues regarding legal separation, is it a good move financially if we decide to get back together. The trouble is that they take advantage of your flexible attitude towards the kids. Can you get a legal document regarding the kids without taking the financial steps?? I think I could but depends where you live.

I started with him seeing kids every second weekend, that lasted for one weekend. Now, I have them all the time and he visits (actually he plays in his shed). Give them an inch, they will take a mile. I'm not actually in plan B at the moment, not sure where I am. I convinced him to move out because he was with OW, but he still treats this as his home base and is in complete control. I am gathering strength to turn the tables. You are doing better than I am and good luck. Hope it works out well for you either way.

ps. There is a big sense of loneliness in not being 'connected'. I fill this as best I can with family and female friends. Groups are uncomfortable, and I often find myself struggling to appear happy. But I think its important to go out anyway. Every now and then something makes you smile. I go to places to hear live music because it is medicinal for me. Maybe there is something that reaches your soul that you could indulge in occasionally. Even if you have to force yourself, it might help.

FF, Ahuman, GT, Thanks for posting and supporting me.

I was a real mess for a time.

I couldn't understand it when my friends kept telling me that I was a strong person and that I would get through this. At the time I didn't see how.

But I am. I still do love my H. And WH does make it tempting for me sometimes to want to settle for the 'crumbs' he offers me for short-term relief, but I do care about myself enough not to settle for it, and strive for my long-term goal to be proud of myself and put my values where my mouth is. My PLAN B committment provides me with the environment not to stray.

I can honestly say that I am happy to be at a place where I can tell my WH that if he can only be part of my life on his terms (with OW in his life), well, I can say, no thank you to that and really mean it, and put my energies to move forward.

It's just that this is all so new to me, but I will make it - one day at a time.

One of the things I want to do for myself now is try to see what happened and put in place whatever is needed - think about boundaries, a way of not losing sight of priorities, examining my fears, anything that can better protect me from giving my 'power' away and be so hurt again, while at the same time not become bitter, cold and untrustworthy.

This is my challenge for now.

Will WH reconsider? I don't know. He knows my terms, up to him to decide.

I have seen other people stretch their limits, but MY limit is that I would rather be alone, inspite of all my fears and the challenges of being alone, than be part of a triangle in any way. I did lose my way for a while.

How to better protect my heart and remain sensitive? Because I have seen people put up a very high brick wall as a solution, and I wouldn't want that for me.

Maybe realizing that I am stronger than I thought is going to help.

I did forget for a while that life is a journey and to be prepared for the unexpected - I was caught sleeping at the wheel.

I am glad that you 'bunch' came into my life.

Some of you will never know how dear you are to me (says she tearfully).

Today I feel a bit discouraged about life.

.... and so it makes me wonder: Is PLAN B really helping me to move on or is it keeping me from moving on?

I know I feel better by not seeing/speaking to WH. Is this keeping me in denial, keeping me in my own fantasyland and not face the reality of the end of my M?

I know for a fact that WH, even with attempts at legitimizing his A with OW by separating, is not at a 'happy' place right now. Is this giving me false hope?

What keeps me going is literally taking it one day at a time, and putting one foot ahead of the other. I don't see this as a way to live long-term.

I also have this image of feelings lining up to be recognized.

My posting here is just a way of giving a 'voice' to my feelings, so hopefully they can move on and let my other feelings have their turn. I am personally rooting for feelings such as joy, peacefulness, and similar ones that haven't had their turn come up for awhile. I miss them.

Sadness, loneliness, anxiety, pain, hopelessness... please move over! You have had the 'spotlight' on you long enough.

Sorry. I am just feeling blue. I will be fine soon.

Hi Luna ((((hugs))))
Sorry you're having a bad morning, I'm sending good vibes your way~~~~~ <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />~~~~~. Did you get 'em?? oops...well that was almost a smile. Don't worry...the good vibes will catch up with you soon.



Moving on with what? What are you doing for your personal recovery while you are in plan B? This is the time to indulge yourself. Do what you never thought you could or would. What is your plan for personal recovery?

My personal recovery plan...I had to take a good look at myself. I think it was Bob Pure who posted something about "what would you do if you weren't afraid?" That really got me thinking. And with Pep's new thread about Renter/Buyers. In the past I thought if I sacrificed it was a good and noble thing. Being a martyr isn't healthy. I gave up doing a lot of things that I enjoyed, and spent time doing things to be what I thought was being a "good" wife and a "good" mother. What I did was sacrifice part of my identity that made me the person I was...the person my H fell in love with. Now, I am getting back in touch with the things that bring me joy...cause you know what? I deserve it, we all do. I'm not talking about relationship stuff...I'm talking about life stuff.

So what can you do to give yourself a little joy today? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> YOU deserve it!

((((Luna))))

Sorry you are feeling sad and lonely. I have those days too. What do you have planned for today or tonight???? Fridays are usually one of my bad days so I have made it a point to make some really special plans with DS. This is our DATE night!! This week it is cold enough to build a fire in the fireplace & we are going to roast hot dogs & watch a movie! Kind of an Indoor Cook Out.

If your kids are away tonight, fill the tub up with a wonderful bubble bath & PAMPER yourself. Give yourself a pedicure or spend the night calling friends and chatting on the phone.

Like Confused said, what are some of the things you enjoy doing?

Kim

Hi Luna,
....please don't apologize! You are allowed your feelings and frankly it seems quite normal to be feeling sad a lot in the position you are in right now in life.

You struggled with being proactive about somethings when you were blindsided by the A. What can you do to be proactive now? Like others have suggested groups, activities?

Plan B seems like a sort of Limbo-land. It is quiet and safe ....but nonetheless limbo. Limbo is tough. When I have been in limbo in the past, I held on to some future objective pulling me through the hard times--a long term hope to guide me if you will. It probably seems to difficult to have any future objective when you don't know exactly how your future will be, right? But maybe therein lies some of the problem.

You have mentioned the difficulty of separating yourself from your M. This is your opportunity to focus on your OWN personal objectives---completely separate from your family and M life. What Luna wants from Luna's life. The mark she wants to make on the planet, irrespective of her boys, her WH, etc.

Have you read the Seven Habbits of Highly Effective People, by Steven Covey? This book helped me once, when I was stuck. Maybe it could help you.

Good luck. Keep posting! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

LUna,

Sorry you're feeling blue. As you know from my thread it has taken me 10 months to start getting over those feelings. Feelings are feelings, and they can disappear just as fast as they come, that's the good thing about bad feelings.

Plan B was a limboland for me before, but now it's the safest place for ME to be while I carry out MY MB PLAN, which includs at least a few more months of "giving the marriage a chance". So while I'm giving my M and WH a chance I do things that are good for me, to become a better person, I invest more in my job etc.

So I've quit seeing it as limbo, because it is part of a plan. My next date with myself is in february. I will then decide how much longer I am willing to give my M and WH a chance, but I will do that in february.

I'm sure you don't have to be lonely. Call a friend, write a letter. Do something different.

Whatever happens, you "move on" (there actually is no way to move backwards) so you might as well enjoy it and do the best for you.

hugs. we understand.

Explanation for not replying sooner: no internet access on the weekend.... and it wasn't so bad.


C42: Thanks for the hugs and 'good vibes'.

Well, some of the ways I am moving on is:

1. By constantly asking myself why am I doing what I am doing: because I need to, because I want, to please others, etc.

2. Not committing too quickly to invitations, and choose to only see people that I want to see.

3. Doing 'things' that I ENJOY on a very regular basis;

3. Give myself 'unplanned' time just so if I do feel blue I can let these feeling out, one way being posting on this board, and also, to do things on the spir of the moment depending on how I feel and what I need;

4. One of the latest 'tools', even though I haven't yet read the book (which I think I am going to pick up to read; A Million LIttle Pieces, the latest Oprah's selection) where one of the author's way of coping with feelings was to tell himself to "Hold on". I used it all weekend, and it works for me. Feelings do seem to come in waves, so, it's a good expression "HOLD ON".

quote:------------------------------------------------------
"what would you do if you weren't afraid?" That really got me thinking. And with Pep's new thread about Renter/Buyers.
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5. Yeap, I am with you on this one. This Board is a major source of inspiration for me, too.


Hi Kim: Thanks for the support and suggestions.

These 'moments' do pass, and I am making it a point, because of the pain, to follow them up with something 'soothing' because I feel I deserve it after having been courageous enough to face the pain rather than turn away/run away from it/medicate myself. I am be just optimistic, but they don't seem to last as long.

Hi Ahuman: You're right, I shouldn't apologize.

quote:-------------------------------------------------
You struggled with being proactive about somethings when you were blindsided by the A.
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You're being kind, and it certainly wasn't because you didn't try! I would say 'paralyzed' is more like it. WH was simply cruel to me, and I allowed him to be. I took I real moral beating.

Actually, the contrast between H and WH is so great, that the minute I miss H in PLAN B, all I need to do is to remind myself that I would only be meeting WH. Let me tell you....I can then move on....very quickly....with my life. If I can help it, I have no intention of ever seeing WH again - he did/does much too much damage to my soul and spirit. It's my H or nothing.

quote:----------------------------------------------------
Plan B seems like a sort of Limbo-land. It is quiet and safe ....but nonetheless limbo. Limbo is tough.
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Plan B is what it is, which is why I feel one day a time suits PLan B well, but cannot be a permanent stage, and it won't be.

My next challenge: It's my birthday Nov. 4th, and it will be very different from last year! I plan to treat myself 'special' all day, because I do deserve it.

You know what? I already know I will be all right.

Update.

Since the boys are not with me this week, we decided to celebrate my bdate (Nov. 4) one week later.

Today, boys offered to have supper with me tomorrow (I suspect WS asked them to offer - would he feel less guilty if they did?). I told boys that I felt we (parents) were already asking them a lot by having to go back and forth between mom and dad one week each already - it is really how I feel - that I thought we should keep our plan for next week.

Another thing I like about PLAN B, not only do I have more time for myself, but out of the chaos of the triangle, I can focus on my boys more. I can't recall having given my boys as many hugs as I have been giving them lately - even my adolescent does not scrug away from my hugs! (I will hold them as long as they allow me to).

I don't ever want them to doubt how much "I" love them.

And, no, I will not be alone on my birthday - I will be going out with a close friend of the family.

I can't help but wonder sometimes what WS thinks of his new 'reality": us separated, the boys going back and forth, is having OW in his life what he expected, and does he ever think of me, and what am I up to.

I know....what he "thinks" means little. It's what he does that counts.

Anyway, back to MY plans.....