Hi Mulan,

I have 'spoken the truth' to WS when we were 'talking'.....but as you know... the 'truth' falls on 'deaf' ears when dealing with a WS....and mostly ended up with WS accusing me of wanting to make him feel 'guilty' ..... anyway.... it wasn't so much a question of LBs....the reason I didn't 'respond' to his comment.... has more to do with me being in PLAN B..... and choosing not to 'interact' with WS..... as ARK might say..... I am trying NOT to dance to his TUNE!

...and I do remember you being 'there' for me about a year ago, MULAN, and want to again thank you...I remember some very 'critical' moments when I came on the Board hoping that someone would 'post' because I thought it would help..... and you were there.... just so you know that I did not forget and won't!


Hi Noodle,

.....I know....I see you can't believe it, either! I am glad you had a good laugh over it..... the only way to go.....

Hi Ahuman,

Yes... I will keep that in mind.... because I would certainly NOT recommend the OW to any parent!

From what you are saying.....recovery of M after A is HARD WORK.... I appreciate your imagery.....it certainly makes it very clear to me......and it sounds like you are taking a good approach....and appreciate your sharing your experience....

....and thank you to you, too, Ahuman...... I do remember a year a ago....you didn't 'give up' on me, either....even though I seemed to have been totally 'paralyzed' to ACT.....as it must have been frustrating at times...

....overall....I must admit....the support I got and am getting from the Board..... is one reason I believe I got this far....and PLAN B.... as no 'direct' contact with WS has been my 'life saver'......

....as is obvious from WS's comment...... he is very much still in fogland..... and I will not allow him to get near me..... for my own protection.....

...I had not yet come across someone who would show that much 'insensitivity' towards me..... a WS is the tops!

Hi again.

I guess I kind of went off on a tangent about recovery...btw I think "recovery" applies to anyone impacted by the A mess and seeking to get out...not just those people recovering "in m." Dont you think?

How are you doing now that OW decided not to retire? That seemed to be the event that impacted your time-line, so I can completely see how that was a shock.

How does it impact your Plan B plans now?

Hi Ahuman,

Well....yes....OW not retiring was a surprise..... as I already said.... I think it's their 'collaboration at work' that makes the 'difference' ..... so I was curious to see if OW was no longer at the school...without the 'working as a team' deal.... whether or not that would make a difference in the A

My timeline hasn't really changed....I don't want to be in any R with S as long as he is a WS..... I will give myself the 2 year mark as is usually suggested for PLAN B.... but not to end PLAN B..... but rather, since WS doesn't seem to have any intention of initiating any 'formal' proceedings as some WS here have..... I WILL then consider whether or not I will want, need, to do the legwork to have end of M 'legalized'....

....I am not really in any hurry... because I know that the paperwork alone will not provide me with any 'relief'..... I'd rather be emotionally ready, on my time, for the last 'touch' to the end of the M.....

...you see, financially, we are still more or less taking care of 'bills' as was done during M.... so.... this is definitely out of 'sync' with the reality of our R of no direct contact....

Makes sense to me. You seem much happier and safer in Plan B.

Are you staying busy this summer? Going on any trips with the boys?

Hi Ahuman,

I have no major plans..... it would be weekend getaways with the boys.... but....they are very much involved in suggesting what we should 'do' activity-wise..... my way of giving them a chance to 'decide'...... in a situation where they seem to have so little input..... they mostly seem to enjoy inviting their friends over to play and for sleepovers.....

....the boys and I get along really well.... I do see some signs of how in their own small way they try to 'protect me'..... and kisses and hugs are on the top of the our daily list... even for my 'adolescent'! .....I love my boys so much! .....definitely one of the reasons for my 'getting up' in the morning.....

I am doing sooo much better compared to last year at this time!

....got into gardening.... have some 'home' projects.... plan to start up 'painting'... do more bicycling... I enjoy going to the movies.... I see friends on a regular basis (who seem to be in a 'protective' mode about me!)

...overall...I am enjoying and appreciate life on a day to day basis....I try not to think too much ahead..... the big challenge at this point is dealing with 'triggers'... I 'protect' myself by not purposely seeking them out.....as enough of them come on their own right now! ...the wound is quite deep.... and I try to treat it as such....

(....my next big challenge will be not having the 'boys' in the neighbourhood the week they are with 'dad' as dad is moving into a bigger apt out of the 'hood......for the past year they were only a 'block away'.... so I saw them often even during their week at dad's....)

I am proud of myself for being able to insist that WS and I do not see each other and do not speak 'directly' (phone or written messages only allowed re boys and finances)..... even though on a very regular basis that seems to frustrate him.....as he would very much like for us to be 'friends' (for the sake of the boys, of course).... because I can definitely confirm that the 'no direct contact' with the WS has been the most important element in my 'recovery'.....

....and which for me is a sign that I do care about myself....that I feel that I am worth more than the treatment WS dishes out to me....and that I am disciplined enough and respect myself enough to insist that my 'boundary' be respected

...the way I see it.... WS either treats me with 'respect' or he doesn't treat me 'AT ALL'....and I am at peace with that decision.....

....I must admit that I am enjoying being 'on my own' more than I thought..... and I definitely would rather be 'alone' than be subjected to the treatment of a WS

....my 'adaptability' seems to be coming through for me!

....and can't say that my work situation makes things any easier...I enjoy my work very much ..... but I presently 'assist' a unit head who basically has been more or less 'absent', if not physically, definitely mentally from the office...... for about 2 years!

....but I seem to be able to better handle the 'work' situation.....

...because as a previous employer - a lawyer -with whom I worked for in a 'team' approach for 15 yrs - whom people who had worked for him had found to be very 'difficult' and 'temperamental') said about me in a reference letter when I moved on when 'opportunity came knocking': "LUNAMARE shows superb initiative..... highest quality of work....great understanding...... ability to cope with - BLA BLA BLA - was without equal in my long experience....has a highly developed sense of justice, always exhibits the greatest decency, courtesy and excellent judgement.... who he was sorry to see leave....."

...because it has also meant that I have been taking 'business-related trips' (I almost hooked up with Believer in California!) that the unit head would normally take..... and so.... I take the 'good' with the 'bad'..... and move on....

....uh...I think I will stop now, Ahuman, before you regret asking me anything!

Hi Luna,

Just curous, does Canada (Quebec) have a vacaton schedule more like Europe or the US?

Sounds like you are enjoying work, I think. What do the boys say about moving? I imagine that change wont be easy for you either, but I wonder if it will end up just meaning less time with their P.

Hang in there and keep posting.

Hi Ahuman,

quote:----------------------------------------------------
Just curous, does Canada (Quebec) have a vacaton schedule more like Europe or the US?
----------------------------------------------------------

Well...if a job is related in any way to the 'construction industry'.... during the last two weeks of July....that industry shuts down.....and of course... if other family members are involved.... even if vacation time is optional, will most likely take it at the same time.....otherwise... vacation is based on choice and by seniority.....the latest hire, of course, having the least choice on when vacation is taken.... but if kids are involved... most likely the vacation time is taken sometime during the summer when the kids are off school

Yes...I do enjoy my work.

The boys, as I am, are apprehensive about the move... there is a lot of 'back and forth' going on right now seeing that WS is one block away...so I actually see them regularly even during the week when they are at their dad's...so...I expect that the boys and I will me 'missing' seeing each other even more!

.....but the biggest challenge for them will be to be out of the neighbourhood they grew up and where their friends are, every other week.....I guess, like everything else....they will have no other choice but to adjust.....I am seeing signs though of accumulating 'resentment' for WS for 'creating' the situation..... which may be creating some insecurities.....but I don't intervene..... I focus on my relationship with the boys.... show them that I value them, I love them, etc etc... and WS will one day have to deal with the harvest of whatever he has planted.....

....Yes...I am hanging in there....for sure!

....and that goes for you, too!

hi lunamare, I had some time so I have been trying to catch up and peek in on how some of you are doing lately.

Sorry to hear abt the latest shennigans. I have quite a few from my WS too.

I've posted an update here.. might have been pushed to third page or so already.

Just sending you some support vibes!

~A

Thanks for dropping by Ashley....will try to catch up on your thread.

For some reason I was thinking that Canada followed suit with E. Europe more than the US when it came to vacations--meaning closing down for part of July and most of August.

Sounds like it is a bit like the US in this respect though. I used to tease a Canadian friend of mine about Canada being the 51st state (the reference would exclude Quebec of course--since that's not Canada. LOL!) just because so many American's appear to have that view from a cultural perspective at least about Western Canada.

I haven't spent that much time in Canada--part of a summer on a lake in Quebec and some time in Vancouver. What I have seen is beautiful.

I bet the boys are apprehensive about the move. At least you are their light-house. I am placing bets that they will resist going to WS more once he moves. How did that issue about visits ever turn out re: your oldest son?

I hope you are doing well!

This is just to keep track of my 'threads':

see:http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=3056977&page=0&fpart=1&vc=1

Hi Luna....just doin' a drive-by.

How are you?

Hope well.

Hi Ahuman,

Thanks for dropping by!

Well....as expected, WS moved away from the neighbourhood, and I am 'still standing'.....

.....actually...I don't think I was dealing with the 'anticipation' period very well, it turned out to be worse than the 'fact'......I am glad it's over!

...as, of course, for one thing, I am no longer on the 'look out' as when WS was staying one block away....

...and I don't feel any MORE abandoned than when WS was just a block away..... actually the 'distance' is more in tune with the reality....and so, in someway, better....

... with the move, it seems to me that, symbolically, WS is telling me, one year later, that a 'reconciliation' is not even on his radar....particularly with the 'excitement' involved with being in a bigger apt. (that we own) and in a very 'sought-after' neighbourhood....

...on the other hand, I am sure with time it being the 'solution' to WS's internal chaos that I sense he may be in, will probably prove not to be so in 'reality land'.....

...time will tell....

....in the meantime....I am moving forward 'as if' WS will no longer be part of my life!

...and I am approaching it as a 'new beginning'..... particularly, in case you have not read one of my other threads, since I have written WS a 'refresher' PBL in reply to once again his suggesting to meet and discuss..... in case one year later some fog may have lifted...and with the PBL I feel more comfortable as I have confirmed once again that my not wanting to see him is not a form of 'punishment'..... but rather a choice I have made (to not want to be part of a triangle).... and so, I really cannot do much more than that other that continue on with my life..... the ball is in WS's court....as the saying goes....

How are you doing?

P.S. I actually worry sometimes that the longer WS takes to reconsider the more I like being on my own.... and do wonder what would be my position IF WS were to reconsider one day.....particularly if the boys were all 'grown up'......and knowing the amount of effort that a Recovery would need.....but then again.....not having ANY signs that this will ever occur.....I don't dwell on it very much.....

...but I do understand better now when some say that Recovery in the long run may depend on the BS...and whether or not BS is willing to risk recovery of M....and risk being 'hurt' all over again!

I'm with you luna!

Hi luna,

I see what you are saying about your future and wondering how you may respond if WS came back. It seems you are doing so well he would REALLY have to demonstrate he was adding something.

As for me (thanks for asking) I am okay. My BS has been away on business which has been hard for us...it is the first time we have been apart since Dday and I know that he worries a bit with trust. That is my penance---and unfortunately his too. There is always that little 'question' about trust. But I have approached this as an opportunity to build more trust by being very responsive--always having my cell phone to answer when he calls and reassure him that he can contact me and talk if he needs to. Sheesh...enough about me! This is your thread.

Glad to hear you are doing well.

Cheers! Keep us posted.

Hi Ahuman,

Thanks for the update.....uhmmm......your S being away and you being an 'open book' should definitely go a long way to 'rebuilding trust'..... you are working really hard to help your FBS......and your M.....

By the way, Ahuman, do you have any children?

quote:-----------------------------------------------------
It seems you are doing so well he would REALLY have to demonstrate he was adding something.
-----------------------------------------------------------

Yep....you got it, Ahuman.

.....I saw his 'move' to his current apt. as WS missing another 'window' of opportunity.....and a definite message to me that he will not be making our 'family' a priority any time soon.....

....if on one hand it makes me feel sad.....it also makes me roll up my sleeves and go 'full speed ahead'.....with MY LIFE!

....his loss....

Update.

Only some that are following my thread may remember....but I was sure OW was supposed to retire this year....was actually counting on it putting some 'distance' between WS and OW........ (OW is WS's co-worker and both OW and WS work at my DS 10's school!)....

...since I am in PLAN B.... I certainly would not check with WS.... and don't really have anyone 'inside' to confirm info. with.....

....but in speaking with Director of school (because next year my DS could have actually 'technically' have been in OW's class as she teaches that grade) to make certain OW WOULD NOT be DS's teacher - the conversation actually allowed me to confirm that 'yes' OW is was no longer retiring.....it also allowed me at the same time to express my dissappointment at the school's attitude in 'tolerating' an A between a teacher and a parent who supposedly two of their best 'professionals' who are married to other people! (Apparently as an administrator, 'hands' are tied as A would be considered a 'private' matter.... and as teachers here have a strong union...... they can't interfere.....or risk being sued!)

....anyway.....I still had OWS's phone number.....when he was staying at their country home.... I know the house was up for sale and he had left it to find 'work'..... but I kept trying in case I would 'catch' him at the house to see how things were on the OW's end!

Well.... yesterday I succeeded..... OWS's confirmed that their house, one year later, had been sold and that as of next week phone would be disconnected..... and he would be moving around to find 'work'..... which he is not having an easy time doing.....bein in early 60s, the plan was to retire early with OW.... also....the last time I spoke with him.... they had been consulting a friend who was a lawyer to go forward with an amicable 'split'.... now I am hearing that assets are 'frozen'.... as there is disagreement over the 'split'.... he is also seeing IC to help him out..... (as a matter of fact he didn't sound too good over the phone)......

...OWS did confirm that OW had decided to work 3 more years!..... in order to get the maximum teachers' pension.... (I suspect to also continue working with WS....and keep her 'connection' going with him...)

...asked how things were with the children (background: OW and OWS were together for over 27 years but the 3 grown 'kids' are hers.....her kids dad had an A and had left OW with three young kids.....- yeah, I know, OW had to 'stretch' her values quite a bit for her to do same thing has her kids' dad had done to her - ....anyway, as you can imagine.... after knowing OW's children for 27 years OWS had developed a 'relationship' with OW's three children and grandchildren!)..... I knew that her children were really upset with OW...particularly her daughters..... as young children they had been 'hit' by their dad's A......now.....their own mother was involved in an A.....by so doing, putting another family through what their cheating dad had done to them....and I am sure 'old' wounds were being hit hard again)....well OWS basically confirmed, and we can't be too surprised...that the 'family' relationships are a mess..... 'broken' and 'divided'..... and he had seen two of the three children the weekend before......

...I basically left it up to him to keep contact if he wanted, and hope he does to keep me up to date on any 'major' events on OW's side.... (since I would no longer be able to reach him).... as I suspect that part of his 'moving' on may involve not being in touch with WS's spouse!

.....I was a little suprised to hear that the 'assets' were frozen..... that was a big change from the 'amicable' split that was initially intended!

.....I guess it can get 'ugly' when splitting assets...... and I do wonder.....if and when I get there.....if it will be the case with me and WS..... who shows no sign of taking any initiative in that direction..... and so wonder if I should and get the 'assets' issue resolved as soon as possible.... it may not be a good idea to 'wait'..... wonder if it will make it worse.....later on..... I know that some on my friends 'encourage me' to get things 'cleared' up on that end.... I guess I am not quite ready to do this yet.....even at the risk of making things 'worse' later on......

WS and myself are the parents of our two boys.... whatever we have we expected one day to go to our boys..... neither one of us expects to have other children and start a 'new family'..... us splitting our assets would mean adding 'financial' strain to both us right now......and I guess neither myself nor WS want to go 'there' yet..... but I know that part of my 'moving' on will at one point involve splitting the 'assets'.....

...I wonder.... am I making it worse by 'procrastinating' on this issue?

....right now.....WS is being 'financially' responsible..... with our obligations....... will he continue to?

UHMMM.... my intention was to be in PLAN B.....at least two years.... next summer I will see where I am with this issue..... one year can't make that big a difference in the split of finances.....either way.... there are set 'laws' about the splitting of assets here..... and maybe next year I will be better prepared and more clear on how I feel about this.... in case it does get 'messy'......

...right now....obligations are being met 'as usual' between myself and WS.....although it definitely feels 'strange'.....not having 'seen and talked' to WS for over a year!

EDIT: ....I wonder if OW's 'losses'....having to work three more years...difficult 'asset' split..... makes WS and OW stick 'more' together...in the face of reality's 'difficulties'...... or would this would a 'strain' in their affair?... wonder if WS, although right now not 'officially' living with OW (as I suspect he spends week when boys are with me at her apt).....had to make 'promises' to OW... that in a couple of years...once boys a little bigger... he would be prepared to live with her.... to get her to 'hang' on!
.....because HER kids are grown..... she is FREE to live with him..... but I know that WS....because he told me.... in order to keep the 'romantic' love going as long as possible.....would prefer to deal with OW and boys separately..... WS is big on 'compartamentalization' in dealing with issues......

EDIT2: ...Oh....now I remembered what gave me the impression that WS is making 'future plans' with the OW....boys told me that 'dad was intending to stay at the apt. he moved to for two years only'.....but they, nor he, didn't say what would happen after that....and I didn't ask and certainly won't ask WS....but I am certainly curious to know what those plans might be...... Will WS in two yrs want to set up house with OW and/or has he made any 'promises' to OW to keep A going?..... will he want to initiate D in two years? ....hate the energy this 'thought' is taking up......working hard at letting it go......nothing I can do about it....will just have to wait and see, I guess..... and try to not let it interfere with my life...

P.S.S. I guess.....OW would like nothing better than ME initiating a D...... I know that WS won't, right now at least,..... and so I would be helping 'cut' more of the ties between myself and WS......

.....well....I guess I am in no rush..... I would rather it be 'messy' later than 'sooner'.......

....let WS 'explain' to OW why he won't initiate D or splitting of assets like she is doing, right now...I guess WS must be using the fact that the 'boys' are still too young.....hers are adults! ...it might be enough to let OW hang on.....I guess....

....WS and OW seem to have made some plans for the future...... she is planning to teach three more years...... WS is planning to stay at the apt. only two years.... I have a feeling they have plans to live 'happily ever after' in a few years.... when she is retired... and the boys are old enough.....DS15 in a year or two will most likely, if the trend is maintained, choose to stay with me full-time..... and DS10 will be 12-13......and if older brother stops 'moving back and forth'....he might want to, too..... I guess....that might work into WS's and OW's plans...... in a couple of years.....I guess....they can imagine themselves free of 'family' responsibilities...... the 'dust' will have 'settled'...our separation will be 'old news'....it already is!.....me and WS will have been separated for 3-4 years...... I can certainly see my WS, knowing how he thinks a little bit, how that could be how he sees things....... on the other hand....things have already not worked out how he had 'planned' it..... because I am not 'going' along with 'his' plan as he had expected me to.....

Hi luna,

As to the money situation, two thoughts:

First, WH's present contributions are a means for him to deal with his guilt about leaving. My guess he doesn't feel he has "abandonned you" because he is still pulling his weight in the M through finances. Second, DIVORCE changes EVERYTHING. You can rest assured that, especially as time passes and WH will nolonger associate D with his A, his guilt meeter will change. I strongly advise you to speak with an Attorney about things you can do NOW.

He has shown no mercy for your feelings, the financial situation suits him for now, when the wind changes and the financial situation no longer suits his plans, rest assured he will value your emotional security the way he values your emotional security.

Will you react as "paralyzed" in the next battle as you did in the first?

It is up to you. Dont hide from it Luna, PROTECT and STAND UP FOR YOURSELF!!

Maybe this article will give you some ideas:
http://www.delawareonline.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20051008/WOMAN/510080301/1005/NEWS web page