Surfing the internet, I came across this article, Dating After Divorce in Psychology Today. It's a very good article, but there was a section that really caught my attention.

Working with Shigeyuyki Hamori, an economist at Kobe University in Japan, I researched methods for estimating the qualities and contributions of marriage prospects. We hypothesized that singles seeking relationships assess unseen qualities in others based on social price as it is reflected in actions, body language and verbal communication. We concluded that those exhibiting self-confident assertions of dating standards are perceived as holding relatively more promise as marriage partners. Conversely, those who appear insecure and desperate, call a love interest excessively or engage in sexual activity too soon send signals that they hold inferior unseen traits.

So just as we tend to assume that expensive cars are better than similar, cheaper ones, we may also conclude that those demonstrating high social prices have unobserved qualities superior to those with lower social prices. But be wary: Overselling also occurs. For instance, individuals with a substantial income but little else to offer may exaggerate their social price. And as with any type of price misrepresentation, true quality eventually surfaces. In the dating market, this can translate into a broken relationship.

At the core, inaccurate social pricing is a by-product of low self-esteem and other negative self-emotions. "Fear absolutely devastates some people," says clinical psychologist Michael S. Broder, Ph.D., a former radio-talk-show host and author of The Art of Living Single. "It can be the fear of being hurt, rejected or involved, and it can stem from a history of having been hurt or of traumatic relationships. People can be very proficient in other parts of their lives, but the fear of dating can make them stay alone or pine for the relationship they left."

This article led me to the original paper, titled,
A THEORY OF QUALITY SIGNALING IN THE MARRIAGE MARKET* (pdf). This is a terribly cerebral exercise, explaining why 80% of the women out there are "out of my league".

A simpler, more direct summary of the paper can be found in this article, Playing hard-to-get makes you more 'valuable'.

As a recovering "Nice Guy", my theory is that in my 'niceness', I tended to be overly available, and thus lowered my social price.

What are different ways you feel you can increase your social price, or as someone else has put it, raise the bar?

oh man....it's too late to think for me...I'll come back to this tomorrow

I hate to promote another site, but I get emails from a site that is all about how to date more women. This guy's theory is right along the lines of what you say...women aren't attracted to "wussies" - guys that chase after them and are not a challenge. You have to be self-confident and humorous - or to put it in his terms, "cocky and funny".

I will not post the site, but if you are interested in further info, email me at [email]geckogoon@yahoo.com.[/email] I haven't put his methods into practice yet, as I am still in the final stages of the D process, and do not want to give my WW any ammunition to use against me. But I do believe in the program.


TM

I read his stuff - David's right? I think that for most women his formula to create attraction will work. Girls (women) do appreciate a guy that is confident and funny.

I only have a few objections.

His material is aimed at guys that want to "conquer" a large number of women in bed. Kind of sleazy. In spite of this marketing stragegy, his own personal life consists of serial monogamous relationships according to him.

Some of the things he has guys do are designed to avoid any intimacy (not the physical kind), and it wouldn't take me personally very long to see this as game playing and drop the guy.

Some of the cocky routine I might see with my own personal history as being unavailable and too smart alicky for my taste - it would be a turn off for a guy to find little things to tease me about that were personal in nature. I would see this as controlling.

But - the hook - does work. In spite of what I would see as controlling red flags because I have been with too many controllers, many women would see as attractive because - yes let's face it - a less available, confident, funny guy would be attractive. Controllers get you with "the hook" they are funny, confident and unavailable. They tease you with little things that are really thinly disguised put-downs. The difference would be I assume that a truly controlling guy would escalate, where an average Joe using these techniques would be trying to create attraction, but still have real feelings and not lack in true self esteem.

More later, have to jet.

V.

Before we can discuss how one raises one's "social price" we must first have a strict definition of the term. This makes my hooey alarm go off. Sounds like just so much more pop psychobabble.

Sites that advise you how to date more men/women are BS. They each you how to be someone you are not. Most of the sites and books like this for men, teach you how to be a player. When you read that women aren't attracted to "wusseies" you know you are dealing with someone who believes you should falsify the truth about yourself - to pretend to be somehing you are not. This may get you laid, but beyond that, it cannot do anything other than insure a series of failed relationships. When later it becomes apparent that you are not who she thought you were, she is going to feel defrauded, and rightfully so. And think about whose definition of "wussy" you are going to accept. The callous, arrogant, detached, macho, woman-using pig these sites promote and call it being a "real man" is an abomination. After all, what are the qualities of a REAL man? Certainly not the whoremonger these sites would have you be.

Just be who you are and you will naturally attract compatible people. If who you are right now is a man who lacks self-confidence, you have work to do on yourself and shouldn't be dating. If you believe that you have to be dating or have to be in a relationship in order to be happy, ditto.

LOL. Blanket statements can be so very funny. For example, Dr. Harley's materials include stuff on how to date more men/women -- does that make Dr. Harley's materials BS? And if someone thinks his stuff is BS, why would they post on the MB board?

Go read a few of them. Maybe you won't be laughing so much. And you might get a clue about how some guy is working you the next time it happens. Dr. Harley isn't some two bit charlatan preying on men and women who feel inadequate. He's trying to deach you how to do this in a healthy way so that you build a successful relationship right from the start. There's a big difference in motivation. I wasn't talking about this site and you know it.

I already have, thanks. Some of them are pretty silly. Some of them, like Dr. Harley's stuff on the subject, are quite helpful.


That's exactly what makes a blanket statement like "Sites that advise you how to date more men/women are BS" so funny.


Now, now, no need for lying when you can't possibly know what I know and what I don't. You're quite articulate, so it stands to reason that if you make a blanket statement, then a blanket statement must be what you mean. If you meant otherwise, then say otherwise.

Check wouldn't be Check without his blanket, absolute, no room for error or differing opinion, insulting statements. That's why we all love him so.

Now, please don't hijack my thread. Go fight in another corner. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

I assume you took the effort to read the paper before commenting, but in case you didn't.

Individuals, being the most informed assessors or their own abilities and potential, set what shall be referred to as social prices (pi) for themselves. Based on familiarity with one’s self, the social price is determined as

pi = f(potential contribution to marital income).

Marital income is discussed further below, and one’s potential contribution is determined on the basis of self-discipline, intentions, standards, prospects, plans, inner strength, current status, and prior success rates. The resulting social price is paid via courting efforts and marital offers by potential suitors.

...marital income can be thought of in the transferable utility context with utility measured in income units.

[quote
Now, please don't hijack my thread. Go fight in another corner. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> [/quote]


Gotta love "The Big Guy"!!

Had to chime in, too funny!!K!

I think I have a better idea.......

uh oh <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />

OK, just because 80% of the women are not up to your status, doens't meant you can't date them. They can't all be that great.

The trick to raising your social status as a guy is, I believe, to love yourself first. Do good things for yourself. Improve yourself. Women can smell a man who needs female attention to validate himself a mile away, and they usually run like heck. I tried an interesting experiment months ago at a dance I attended. I decided I would not ask one woman to dance, not one. Instead I would be smile, socialize with both men and women, tap my foot the music so I looked like I wanted to dance, and generally appear to be pleasant, self-confident and perhaps a bit cocky.

The result? Within 45 minutes, three women asked me to dance with them. I stayed about 3 hours and probably danced with 7 women before I decided that it would be poor form to not return the favor of asking to dance. So, I put the experiment to an early end, having pronounced it a success.

Note: I am not rich, I am not famous, I am not great looking, in fact I am a middlel-aged, balding guy.

Wait, TM and Sunny, are you saying that those hurtful barbs said with a smile are supposed to be attractive in a man? Yuck. BTDT. I try to avoid men and women who do that.

The way to increase your social price is not to lower someone else's. The sign of a true gentleman is that he makes every woman feel like a lady.

Bingo!!

[color:"blue"]I believe that I said that to some women it would seem fun and attractive (maybe inexperienced girls), but for me it was a red flag. My boyfriend never teases me - not even little playful barbed stuff and I love it. He is a kind soul.

V. [/color]

It's not so much about increasing a man's attractiveness as it is about knocking a woman off balance. Think about it. You are a highly attractive woman who constantly hears how beautiful you are by guys who are trying to get into your pants, then you encounter a guy who doesn't supplicate to you. This guy is different, he stands out from the crowd. That alone gives him an edge over everybody else.

The "hurtful barbs" are just a technique for letting a woman know that you don't think she is all that and a bag of chips. For some women, it plays on their insecurities and feels like more "honest" communication than the guys telling her how great she is.

It is an artificial way to increase a guy's social price because he doesn't come across as a lap dog waiting for orders.

[color:"blue"] Yes this is what the guy's schtick is aimed at. [/color]


[color:"blue"]Notice that the red flag for me would be that in a guy that was controlling, the playing on the insecurities thing is used as a means of keeping the woman's self esteem low. Makes the woman more controllable. But I agree with your assessment of that guy's technique. [/color]


[color:"blue"]I agree. I think my general rule of thumb though is to avoid guys that seem cocky because they are just too "A type" personality and feel pushy to me. I always gravitated toward the passive aggressive type because they were more subtle. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

I think that the most important thing a guy can do for himself is to improve his conversational skills. It is usually in the top 5 of a woman's emotional needs.

Part of what this guy does for other guys is he gets them talking and sparks some unexpected and interesting conversation.

V.[/color]