[color:"blue"] I think he headed off to the hills - you frighten him big guy?

V. [/color]

I have GOT to use more smiley faces... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />

Actually, I looked up what self-actualization is the other day for the heck of it and said to myself, hey self <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />, self-actualization sounds pretty cool. I can do that! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Dr. Boeree's interpretation of self-actualization.

These people were reality-centered, which means they could differentiate what is fake and dishonest from what is real and genuine. They were problem-centered, meaning they treated life’s difficulties as problems demanding solutions, not as personal troubles to be railed at or surrendered to. And they had a different perception of means and ends. They felt that the ends don’t necessarily justify the means, that the means could be ends themselves, and that the means -- the journey -- was often more important than the ends.

The self-actualizers also had a different way of relating to others. First, they enjoyed solitude, and were comfortable being alone. And they enjoyed deeper personal relations with a few close friends and family members, rather than more shallow relationships with many people.

They enjoyed autonomy, a relative independence from physical and social needs. And they resisted enculturation, that is, they were not susceptible to social pressure to be "well adjusted" or to "fit in" -- they were, in fact, nonconformists in the best sense.

They had an unhostile sense of humor -- preferring to joke at their own expense, or at the human condition, and never directing their humor at others. They had a quality he called acceptance of self and others, by which he meant that these people would be more likely to take you as you are than try to change you into what they thought you should be. This same acceptance applied to their attitudes towards themselves: If some quality of theirs wasn’t harmful, they let it be, even enjoying it as a personal quirk. On the other hand, they were often strongly motivated to change negative qualities in themselves that could be changed. Along with this comes spontaneity and simplicity: They preferred being themselves rather than being pretentious or artificial. In fact, for all their nonconformity, he found that they tended to be conventional on the surface, just where less self-actualizing nonconformists tend to be the most dramatic.

Further, they had a sense of humility and respect towards others -- something Maslow also called democratic values -- meaning that they were open to ethnic and individual variety, even treasuring it. They had a quality Maslow called human kinship or Gemeinschaftsgefühl -- social interest, compassion, humanity. And this was accompanied by a strong ethics, which was spiritual but seldom conventionally religious in nature.

And these people had a certain freshness of appreciation, an ability to see things, even ordinary things, with wonder. Along with this comes their ability to be creative, inventive, and original. And, finally, these people tended to have more peak experiences than the average person. A peak experience is one that takes you out of yourself, that makes you feel very tiny, or very large, to some extent one with life or nature or God. It gives you a feeling of being a part of the infinite and the eternal. These experiences tend to leave their mark on a person, change them for the better, and many people actively seek them out. They are also called mystical experiences, and are an important part of many religious and philosophical traditions.

Maslow doesn’t think that self-actualizers are perfect, of course. There were several flaws or imperfections he discovered along the way as well: First, they often suffered considerable anxiety and guilt -- but realistic anxiety and guilt, rather than misplaced or neurotic versions. Some of them were absentminded and overly kind. And finally, some of them had unexpected moments of ruthlessness, surgical coldness, and loss of humor.

Two other points he makes about these self-actualizers: Their values were "natural" and seemed to flow effortlessly from their personalities. And they appeared to transcend many of the dichotomies others accept as being undeniable, such as the differences between the spiritual and the physical, the selfish and the unselfish, and the masculine and the feminine.

So, according to self-actualization handbook (you get that when you figure out how to use the decoder ring) <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> I had to throw in the self-depreciating comment about being snotty. It's in the rules.

I certainly hope not. Perhaps he's... actually... working... :shudder:

Ah, thanks for the info, I hadn't seen that one. I like his description.

I still think "I'm self-actualized" sounds funny, whether in the dictionary sense or in the above sense. I'm perfectly happy to have you disagree with me however -- it's your description of yourself, after all. In the dictionary sense of "potential fulfilled", I think it sounds funny, because it's a measure of perfection, not of a realistic instance, so "I'm self-actualized" sounds funny in a somewhat delusional sense where "I'm fairly self-actualized" sounds possibly realistic. In the sense Dr. B. uses above, I still think it sounds funny, because the only way to know if you're self-actualized in the sense he describes is if he or someone trained in his methods decides you fit that classification. So again, "I'm self-actualized" sounds funny to me, where "I try to be what Dr. B. describes as self-actualized" wouldn't.

It's not really of any importance that I think it sounds funny. I just brought it up because a lot of the women I know would also think it strange for someone to describe themselves that way, and since this is a dating forum, such feedback may be of interest.

First of all, I like her, I like being with her, and I think there is some possibility that things might work out for us. Otherwise, then what's the point.

Secondly, she tries to get me to bend over backwards for her. She challenges me. She forces me to stop being wishy-washy and go for what I want in the relationship. In essence, because she pushes for the GIVER in me, I find it easier to exercise my TAKER.

That she might break up with me, doesn't scare me in the least. If it happens, it happens. I'm taking it one day at a time and appreciating that which the day gives me.

Actually, last night she told me that it bothers her that I don't know if I want a long term relationship with her. She said it partially tongue in cheek, because she doesn't know if she wants a long term relationship with me, and acknowledged the double standard.

Just exactly how does she do this?

Such feedback is of interest. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Yes, of course it is funny and somewhat pretentious to walk around saying "I'm self-actualized". If you're self actualized, you're not really supposed to say that you're self-actualized. (yes, that is in the handbook)

I can't imagine it ever coming up in day to day conversation, and for someone to wrangle it into one, would be quite a stretch. I would also think it is faux pas to mention that you are centered, grounded, self-aware, or anything else that would indicate your mental health is good. Only crazy people think they are sane.

This thread is good. Am reading it. Think I need to invest in raising my social price...think I've been far too nice...and that is good...but I think I shall this time let a few emails sit a day or 2..and a few phones will I not answer on first or second ring..or maybe forget to answer a bit early.

I still don't understand how this would make someone like you more... This is exactly what I don't "get" about this whole thread and the concept of "price raising".. It seems like high school games to me.

Like I said, I have dated some very "highly priced" women (gawd, that sounds so awful), who had no problem with me being a nice guy. In fact, they liked me for being the nice guy. Why would I want to become less available or nice just to satisfy some preconceived notion of what a guy should be like?

The trick to raising your social price is to love yourself, be good to yourself, value yourself.

After you do that the rest comes quite naturally. For example:
You bathe regularly (ladies can comment on this I am sure)
You stay sober
You become finacially competent
You dress well for whatever the occasion
You treat other people well
You never let others get away treating you badly.
You have confidence in yourself.
You stop measuring you and other people by artificial yardsticks such as money, looks, prestige postions, etc.
You say what you mean and mean what you say.
You don't fear being alone.

I am sure there are many other attributes that contribute to raising one's social price.

Very nicely said JE!

And I didn't even know I had a social price. Now you tell me...lol...

Seriously though. If your theory about being to nice of a guy is correct. Would that not make the love bank theory false?

"We talked about that last night. She's not bored yet! I asked her what makes me different and she couldn't quite put her finger on it. Her typical life cycle for "nice guys" is 3 months, so I've got a few more weeks."

You are probably meeting a EN that she has never had meet before. Most men don`t meet this EN and that's why you are different.

Know which one it is?

You tell her everything don`t you?

I agree... nicely said JE!

AGoodGuy,



Not to satisfy a preconceived notion... but.... if you are always available everytime I call you or e-mail you or text msg you, I will think that you don't have a life, and will wonder why. If we are just beginning our communication, you can't possibly like me enough to be hanging on my every phone call, so why are you? (hanging on my every phone call)? Are you desparate/lonely/needy? No other women are talking to you? Why not? Is there something wrong with you I should know about? Do you not have hobbies and activities to keep you busy? Do you not have male friends to keep you busy?

And then... from YOUR mental perspective.... like peachy was saying for herself... you will feel less needy if you are not hanging on every phone call and e-mail... as if you were waiting for the phone to ring and jumping for joy when it happens. YOU have a healthier perspective and attitude of confidence and balance.

There's a certain "mystery" when you call someone and can't reach them. A guy I am seeing right now called me last night. I was on the phone and so I called him back. Then HE didn't answer. I wondered... hmmmm... where is he? What's he doing? Is he talking to another girl? (hmmmm.. a challenge! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />) Or is he busy with his kids? So he called right back and he was working out and the phone was in the other room! woo-hoo! He has a life, and was doing something GREAT! I'm so glad he didn't DROP everything and run to the phone to accomodate ME! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I don't like games... and I'm not sure "playing" hard-to-get is the right answer. But natural "busy-ness" is good... and being "overly available" to the point of appearing needy, is bad.

I really need to start taking notes...someone have a pen I can borrow...seems the kids took all mine again...

Of course some women do this too. Then you never hear the end of it. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" /> I don't know David's stuff, but isn't the danger of "giving" and "taking" that they are 2 extremes? Give and give until you decide to TAKE? And leave lots of casualties along the way. Learning the balance is the hard part, and I think honesty is the great balancer. "I'm giving and giving because I care for you (love you, etc), and what I'd really like is ____" (something in return, you to do your part, meet me halfway, some space, whatever.) or "I feel like I give and give, and I never get. Can you give me _____ ?" Instead of TAKING, or walking away in exhaustion.




Yep. And wouldn't most men would get tired of being this way? In my experience, men that are this way, HATE what they are doing, but are afraid to say whatever they are thinking. We would be glad to let them off the hook if we knew they wanted it. Sometimes, they may even enjoy doing things for us, but still have opinions and needs, but are still afraid to express them.

But sometimes, I guess it's our fault... I'm thinking back to check's story of the man trying to please his wife with the take-home dinner plans, and nothing would please her. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> If he had picked something, he would have been in trouble... but he was bending over backwards to let her pick... and he still couldn't please her.

Sheesh... there's no answer, is there? 42? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />

Lest we forget the Eharmony hottie (see my recent thread) who apparently decided that I have too much of a life for not being able to call her on her schedule and within her timeline... So apparently being a bit too unavailable is bad too <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />.

Do you see how silly this can get if we start assuming that someone calling back too quickly must have deep psychological problems, no friends, no life, etc, and that someone who does not call back quickly enough must be a player, "not into you", or whatever? It's enough to make anyone's head hurt.

My outlook is simple. I am what I am, and that is what I want my partner to like about me. I always want to improve myself, but all this stuff about not being too available or too unavailable, improving your "social price", etc, no matter how you slice it, is pure and simple game playing.

Just be yourself, and then you can't go wrong with the person that ends up liking you. Or try to be someone that some book or website told you is what women want, and then risk worrying the rest of your life that the woman might find the real you. Easy choice, in my book.

AGG

I think most of us can recognize a pattern of being too avialable or to un-unavailable. Either one is a warning sign that the person may not have a well rounded life and/or not be that interested in you in the first place.

As far as nice guys go, the problem with being a nice guy is that they often mistake being nice with being a genuine person. They think that because they are nice, people are supposed to like them, do things with them and for them, etc. If they are nice and don't do anything to make anybody unhappy then they will be surrounded by a nice world with no troubles.

How naive is that?

Ultimately, nice guys have a lower social price because they are NOT interesting, they are NOT a challenge, and they are taken for granted. I know because I was a nice guy and occasionally still slip into it.

Women don't want guys who are nice because they have nothing else to do, nothing important to participate in, and nothing else to be. They want men who lead active, interesting lives and will make some time in their full and rich life for a particular woman. That is quite a compliment when you think about it.

Exactly AGG!
Just think, if we were ourselves, how happy we would ultimately be, because this "special" person would want us for that, our true selves.
I think we can take advice, improve the things that need improving, but in all honesty, "be yourself".

Karona

Justin hit it perfectly:

"Women don't want guys who are nice because they have nothing else to do, nothing important to participate in, and nothing else to be. They want men who lead active, interesting lives and will make some time in their full and rich life for a particular woman. That is quite a compliment when you think about it. "

It is a huge compliment when an interesting man with a full and challenging life wants to make room in it to spend time with you. It is not remotely a compliment when a man decides he has some vast sucking void in his life and wants somebody to fix it for him, and you got nominated -- it's impossible not to think, "where did he get the idea that I'm a social worker? I'm not interested in being anybody's therapy."

I don't know if we can or not. Either in ourselves, or in our prospects. Or how QUICKLY we can recognize it and either correct it in ourselves, or run from it in our prospects.... is what some of us are trying to watch out for, and improve. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />