I haven't posted in a while, and I guess I just need to vent a little bit. Our recovery has, so far, been bumpy but mostly OK. I am having a hard time with resentment and trust issues. My wife still won't come clean as to the extent of the affair, and it is very frustrating to me. How do you get past this? She insists that she has told me everything, even though I know she hasn't. I told her the other night in bed that even though she was right next to me, she felt miles apart. We have re-connected a considerable amount over the last several months in so many respects. I just know in my heart that if she can't feel safe to talk to me openly and honestly, then the chance of this repeating is extremely high. I know that many of you went months, if not years before getting the whole story, I just don't know that my patience level is that high. I feel like I have fought the good fight and have tried to make things work, but maybe it's just not meant to be. I know, a lot of rambling, but just needed to get this off my chest.

Place a call to Jennifer C @ MB for some guidance. She will get you on a plan that will help you get closure. Your W needs to realize that for you to heal, you need info. It w/b hurtful info but if that is what you need to heal, then she needs to help you through this.

For her to avoid it w/b like withholding insulin from a diabetic patient.

L.

KSU:

A couple of things that I might add from my own personal experience. My situation is much different from yours in that I found out about the A more than 10 years after it happened. I needed details in order to process what had happened, not just with the A but to explain the yo-yo that our M had been on since that time. Obviously at D-Day, my FWS had already dealt with the fog issues and had remorse and guilt for what she had done so that probably accelerated our recovery in some respects. However, until I had the whole story...the thought of the A consumed me.

Think about what the most important reason for your wife to tell you whatever you need to know. It is not to see if this will happen again, it is for you to be able to make a choice if you want to stay in the M. I will tell you that A are inherently dishonest and even if exposed, if your W continues to withhold information their will be barriers in your relationship that will prevent you both from fully recovering. If your wife can withhold information about something as huge as an A, she will have little problems rationalizing why she can lie to you about how much money she spent at the store or where she was during the day..yada yada. I am a firm believer that you both must read the principles of radical honesty (found on this site) and both commit to adhering to them without exception if you want to save your M. It will be difficult for her at first. She is withholding probably for two reasons. First she wants to protect herself. If she is remorseful and has guilt, she is embarrassed by what she did and what she risked to do it. Secondly, and I believe this is more of a rationalization to protect herself, she will tell you that she has told you everything even if she is withholding information in order to protect you from further pain.

On D-Day, my wife confessed to the A, but left many details out. I am pretty analytical and quickly filled in the blanks. Even when I confronted her on certain issues she continued to stick to her original story (ONS followed by a EA long distance). I continued to work with her to be radically honest and to assure her that I would do my best to get past this and have the M that we deserved as long as she was willing to do the same. Finally, three weeks later I found out the whole truth. Even though it started me back at rock bottom, it opened the door for true radical honesty between us. It also was very therapuetic for her. She no longer had anything to hide and could focus completely on being a good wife and mother instead of having to use energy each day to conceal the truth and worry that I would find out some other way.

Once everything was out in the open, my mind was clearer and we really started the recovery process. Occassionally, my mind will shift in gear and I start imagining something about the A. As soon as we have our talk that night, i tell her what is on my mind and she tells me whatever I want to know. I have found that since she is completely willing to tell me whatever I want to know that I don't even now need to ask some questions (some that I don't really want answers for).

My FWW and I take a walk every night that we can. This gives us about 45 minutes of privacy to discuss whatever we need to discuss. It is the best thing that has ever happened to our M.

I might suggest sharing this post with your wife. Assure her that you need to have all the information in order to process what has happened and move forward. You are not collecting additional information to cause more resentment towards what she did or to use as leverage in the future. When she starts to tell you, do not be judgemental. Remember that even though the A will be part of your lives forever, it is probable that the spouse who wants to reconcile with you is not the same spouse who cheated on you. Same goes for you. Her affair was a wake up call for you to examine what actions, inactions or habits that assisted her in making the fatal D to look outside the marriage for her needs. You will never be the same but you have the opportunity to be a much better person if you perservere and save your marriage.


Me (BS) 41
FWW 39
PA 3/94 to 11/94
D-Day 8/26/05
Recovery is going well for both of us.

ksuhurting,

I really like nottoday's post!

What questions do you still have about the A? What do you need to know to find closure? Be specific and write a list.

It's not just about closure for you, its about closure for her too. You can't forgive her for everything if you don't know everything.

Create an environment in which she truly feels safe to tell you everything.

Steve Harley told me this is a very important first step. Recovery cannot truly begin until this has happened.

Maybe you can give your wife the list and talk about the importance of this step for your healing. then POJA a time frame for her to address this as she is comfortable.... one question at a time or in one fell swoop. Don't freak out over her answers. Thank her each time for being honest. Reward her for being honest. Think about her answers for a day or two, then ask questions about her answers if there are still some open. Try not to give her the impression that this is a form of punishment, but rather the road to healing, forgiving, deeper understanding, and more intimacy.

I really appreciate your responses. I have tried to do everything I can to creat a safe environment, i.e. no LB's, thanking her for honesty, etc., but it just doesn't seem to make any difference. I haven't made a list, but I have asked about specific instances, in which I know she is not being truthful, to no avail. You are very wise nottoday, about the need to process information in order to make a rational decision as to the fate of our M. I have also told her in the past that it is like she expects me to put together a jigsaw puzzle with 25% of the pieces missing. I can see that she wants to open up, but for one reason or another, she can't or won't. I have shared my posts with her in the past, and will plan on doing the same with this one. I had set next week as a deadline for me to make a decision concerning our M and whether or not to proceed with a D, so I think that because of that, these thoughts and concerns are weighing heavier and heavier. Thanks as always for your insights!

Ksuhurting,

I asked my H for more details the other night of his one night fling such as... where did it happen?...how old is she? I wish I hadn't. When he was almost done I was falling asleep, he went on forever about this. I heard him say in the end it made him feel better to talk about it, but really it did not make me feel any better. He has a hard time talking to me, and there has been a lot of silence on his part, but it wasn't a problem talking about that. He cried a lot, a lot of guilt, a lot of remorse. I am just leaving the details alone. The act itself is enough pain to endure. Adultery is adultery, I don't think details make us feel any better, it just keeps dragging the pain on. As Pep said trying to make yesterday better just doesn't happen.

Lady

lady,

sorry to hear about your pain. I don't necessarily want details so much, as much as the extent/frequency of the affair, i.e., how often, when, where, etc. It is important for me to know these things, and I think I deserve to know, so that I can get a grasp as to where and how we can proceed.

I am surprised she hasn't revealed these things to you as of yet. As I read here more, it seems that BH's do need the details more than BW's (IMHO). The problem is is that it seems the BH never forgets the details after being told, maybe she is trying to save you from the memories of any details. Maybe she is trying to save you from the competition (as a man) that you may feel all time after details are revealed. You don't need to know if he was better looking than you. You don't need to know if he was better at other things than you. I already know you are thinking these things. Men are competitive, thats why they don't need to know the details, and then wallow in them for years.

Lady

The details that she has told me have certainly hurt, but not nearly as bad as the dishonesty. My need to know derives mainly from the fact, like nottoday said, that I need to know that she CAN tell the truth now AND in the future. On my EN questionaire my #1 need is Openess and Honesty, IMO you can not have a meaningful M without it. My W knows this is how I feel, yet still little progress.

I think that if you are requesting details, she should give them willingly. If you think she is being dishonest about details that is a different thing. Honesty is always the best policy if she wants your M to grow. Write down the questions that you have for her first. Take her to a nice quiet place that the two of you are used to going to together. Ask your questions.

Lady

KSU, you have hit the nail on the head. It is the dishonesty as much as the details that you need to get past. Currently I drive a lot to different job sites. Shortly after D-Day those drives home were almost unbearable because something would trigger and it was like I was hitting the bottom all over again. This week was an ephinany for our recovery. I still had the thoughts occassionally but the physical pain (guts being pulled out wasn't there). I thought about this alot. Is it because I have all the details? No, there are some details I don't want to know like how OM was endowed compared to me. Once I thought about this a while I smiled and it came to me. The wrenching pain is gone because I know that if I asked my FWW about what I don't know she would respond to me truthfully. I can't do anything about what happened in the past. But the fact that I can not only openly communicate with my W and have complete honesty from her gives me great hope about the future. I put Openess and Honesty very high on my list of EN's as well. As Melody has stated, those EN's will change over time. Before D-Day and closer to that date I would have ranked honesty number 1 because it was the need that was being least fulfilled. However, currently it is about 3rd behind affection and SF.

I wish you a lot of luck. I just got home after being gone for two days and looked at the history to see what my wife had looked at on the internet. She doesn't really post on here but she lurks more every day. I really believe that as we progress and she comes to this site just to snoop around, she is healing. Someday she will far enough past the guilt and shame that she will be able to post and help other FWW with the distress that they have after D-Day (after she meets all of my most important EN's of course)

It is good to hear that things are going good for you nottoday! It is my hope that our M can reach the point that apparently yours has. I don't think my W is doing much perusing of this site. A big part of my frustration with her is that I don't feel she is taking her A and its effects on us seriously, in other words, I don't believe she is "putting in the time" to understand not only how and why it happened, but it's effects on our R. She has, however, made big strides, so hope is not all lost.

KSU:

Give everything some time. You have to remember that my wife had more than ten years to get through all her issues including withdrawal and the committment to make our marriage work. She sincerely wanted to make the M work and had gone through all remorse, etc. long before I ever found out. Even then, during the first part of the recovery I had to carry most of the load in making it work. Even though the guilt was lifted and the barriers broke down in our relationship after D-Day, she often had a hard time facing me because she was ashamed. I had to go the extra mile to make sure that she knew that I was committed to whatever it would take to work through this. It took about 3 weeks after D-Day and several IC sessions for her to really open up and start carrying her part of the load.

Resist the temptation to do a LB when she starts to withdrawal. This was the hardest thing for me. I felt "entitled" to have her undivided attention and for her to be willing to meet all my EN's immediately like I felt like I was doing for her. I found a little trick when she was withdrawn or not giving me UA. I started a load of laundry or loaded the dishes in the dishwasher. This action goes against our nature as a male but it is an excellent way to show our committment to our S when they are closed off and don't want to hear it. Almost always, after I did this, she would snap back into reality and recognize that I was needing something as well and she had to fulfill that EN.

As painful as the betrayal is to the BS, I am not willing to underestimate the pain that the WS endures especially close to D-Day. If you add the fog, withdrawal and all the other issues in at the same time, I can easily see how a WS maybe has a harder time coming to the table as quickly as the BS. For us, we have endured the worst at D-Day. For them, I think after D-Day sinks in, it is pretty easy for them to start their emotions going many different directions especially if they still have some lingering thoughts of the OM.

It has been said on here many times that although early in the recovery process the BS has to carry the load (which seems extremely unfair), once recovery has moved forward they will be rewarded by their wife for thier committment. Keep being there for her, even if she is not for you. Down the road you will have some times where you will need her and she will eventually be there. I put a great deal of thought into what the reward for the BS will be in the afterlife as well. Although God clearly states that the BS has every right to cast out a WS, he also puts great emphasis on the value of M and on those who are willing to forgive those who have sinned against him and them. If you believe in purgatory, your actions by staying the course will no doubt knock a few years off for you.

Good luck. Encourage your wife to read some of these posts. She may be able to relate to you better by reading what you have said than by listening to what you are trying to tell her.

Maybe your wife has told you everything, but you unable to accept it. Have you made your decision?