Several years ago, I had a girlfriend who constantly complained about the same things over and over again. Whenever you would discuss solutions with her she always had a reason why that wouldn't work for her. Her excuses were endless and very creative. After several years of listening to the exact same set of problems being hashed endlessly, it occurred to me that she didn't want to resolve the problem, that she liked living like that. She didn't want anything to change!

I suspect that she enjoyed the attention whining about her problems and felt a certain empowerment in victimhood.

My point is that I have learned we always will have people like my friend, Christine, on this forum. Folks who really do not want solutions, but like talking about their poor lot in life. And that's ok, but I have learned the hard way - the frustrating way - that I can't help people like that. Some people like living like that.

Hey that goes with your signature line Mel. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

All right Melody,
Are you talking about me and my last post? I know I whine, but I thought it would be ok here. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

"Yes, BUT..."

It is called the "yes, but" game ~ why the solutions won't work for them.

I used to get too emotionally involved and when people continued to live without making any changes I would get soooo frustrated it would suck the life out of me.

I am aware of my tendency to try to help or rescue. I have learned and am still learning to limit my emotional involvement in chronic problems of others that never change.

Those friends are draining Melody and I have to limit my friendships with those types of people. I have to limit myself with certain people and situations on the forum as well.

I do not allow myself to try to rescue someone that is stuck in their drama.

What I really meant to say is "yes, I have noticed this as well!"

Susan
<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Hm...

like?

love?

tolerate?

stuck?

I've been accused of all of those things (and more) over the years. I like to think of it this way, posted 2 iloveulove.com by Crystal (I believe I'm very near the end of the process, described the way she did):

"When a marriage encounters issues you have three options. You can work to improve things, accept things as they are and stay in dis-ease, or choose to leave.

The whole purpose of this site is to support people as they work to find more fulfillment in their lives and/or marriages so that leaves only two choices in which to focus. They are the:

1. Nurturing Option
2. Releasing Option

The first, the Nurturing option, is choosing to stay committed to the marriage and work to bring it back to a healthy state of happiness and fulfillment.

The second, the Releasing option, is executed when there does not seem to be hope for the boundaries of both parties to be met and a parting of ways is the best solution for both sides to find happiness again.

In order to try to explain these two options with some clarity, we offer up the following worst case scenarios:

Jack and Jill were married.

One day, Jack does the unbelievable. He encounters someone who triggers an emotion in him. Things get out of hand and he has an affair.

Eventually Jill finds out and their entire world is shattered to say the least. At first they both feel like they're living outside of reality. Almost like they're experiencing life from a 3rd person point of view.

With time Jill comes to see that Jack didn’t do it to “intentionally” hurt anyone. Something triggered an action in him that even he couldn’t explain. Jill also came to understand that if Jack had felt more fulfilled before the encounter, he would not have been tempted. She saw that she was not responsible for the affair at all. But she also saw that she did play a role that added to the discontentment in Jack’s marriage.

Jill came to see that, yes, Jack had made a horrible mistake but she still loved him. Even though she “accepted him” as being someone who had made some very hurtful mistakes she realized that her boundaries needed to be respected.

Unfortunately, Jack continued to show signs of being distant and tense. Jill sees this and starts to worry and get stressed herself that Jack might stray again. So she "actively" makes differences in order to try to correct the problem. She does not just ignore the issues. Nor does she just “bite her tongue” around him because she knows that neglecting things will not alleviate any stress or pressure for either of them. She finds resources for both of them to help deal with their issues. She also learns how and “actively” engages in, helping them both feel more fully loved and accepted. (Nurturing Option)

Unfortunately Jack continues to not show interest in changing and over time, Jill sees that things are not improving. He’s still acting in ways that are not respecting her boundaries. She makes her concerns clear to him, in very loving ways, and lets him know that she accepts that this is who he is and still loves him but she is unable to live "happily" herself under these circumstances. In fact living like this is crushing her. She makes it clear that she loves him as much as ever and would give anything for things to be different but they aren’t. So if he chooses to continue to act in ways that hurt her then she must leave. She’s clear both with herself and with him that her actions are self-preservation and NOT an attempt to manipulate him to do anything. She realizes that when she takes this step it might cause him to ‘bottom out’ and finally have the strength to change but it is just as possible that he won't. At this point she is fully prepared for the possibility of him moving on without her. And as a result, she is also prepared to move on without him even though she will always love him. (Releasing Option)"

I won't speak for "Christine", but though it might appear to some that I 'like' living the way I am right now, it's not really the issue. I feel responsible to finish the process. I'd "like" it to turn around and result in a better marriage than we had before the affair, but it might not. But I'm also not dwelling on these potential outcomes anymore (which is why I'm refraining from posting much) - I've got neat things I'm doing at work and for myself and my family at home. Yes, some of those I do for my wife, too, but I don't do them to the exclusion of my own needs anymore.

It's not an issue of liking or not liking my situation at this time. It's about refusing to participate in the drama.

But I see what you mean.

-Qfwfq

by Susan:

Hey Susan that goes with your signature line also! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

~ I'd rather be happy alone than sick with somebody else. ~

Yeah,

I have noticed this also, Melody, and altho I can whine with the best/worst of them, I only tend to go on..and on here sometimes, not IRL too much. Well, maybe occasionally with my best friend, but we are each others' therapists, w/o pay. I often go with the "I am sick of talking about it" line!

Q...I LOVE the story (sounds like me, I'm Jill)also this Jill does get "sick" of it all sometimes,plan and all. But "have kids, must suffer" some(even after childbirth). And like that sig line too, one of my fave songs.

no! I didn't read your last post, really! It is always ok to whine here, we all do it. It's also ok to NOT want to solve problems [I don't put you in that category] because they have just as much right to be here as the rest of us.

The only reason I am pointing this out is because I cannot comprehend not wanting to resolve my problems and become very frustrated with those come here to not solve problems. The fault is MINE for not recognizing this and becoming frustrated. I notice some others here become frustrated with this also.

jls:

Well, I'm "Jill" to, just don't be calling me that!

As my dad used to say "you can call me anything you want, except "Late for Lunch!""

-Qfwfq (aka 2long, who's persona is on vacation in the Cosmos somewhere...)

Thanks Susan! Yes, I am no longer friends with my girlfriend, Christine, because she was sucking the life out of me. She wanted to live in the problem and it just drove me crazy.

yup....I just posted to one and >sigh< there is nothing else she can do.

She is stuck in her situation.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

Susan

Melody, I totally agree with what you are saying. I imagine that when you give such good, sound advice and it seems like the person is not listening or trying to improve their situation it upsets you. I understand what you mean.

But, and I can only speak for myself, perhaps some of the people here (me) are afraid to change. I know that I am way too guided by fear. I know where this fear comes from, but knowing isn't helping much. Maybe people (me) get in a rut or a comfort zone, so to speak. Which in reality, is NO comfort zone, but it is pretty darn scary on the other side.

I doubt that I am making much sense. You give very good advice and are a wise, listener. I certainly value your input. Maybe when it "seems" like you are not getting through to who you are advising, maybe you really are in a different way. Or, maybe someone else reading your advice learns from it.

Had I not come here in January and started Plan A ing my Wh and stopped Lb ing, I would not be where I am today. Which is certainly NOT where I want to be, but I have changed alot since reading this board, and have hope to change alot more.

Alot of people here are dealing with very very painful situations, maybe the hardest time in their lives. Being a part of a community such as this and learning from each other, as little as it may seem at times, could be the only comfort or support they get. Your input is VERY important to many here. Much more so than you know !!

Best regards - Carnation

You got that right Carnation ......Sometimes we may fight the advice because of fear. But believe me Mel it does sink in and after letting the fear go I (some of us) do listen ....

You and so many other wise ones here have saved me from doing a lot of wrong things. Maybe I didn't take some advice right away but after some though I have taken everything very serious and done it.

Thanks Mel...

I so agree with you Melody. I know that over the years I stuck around because, in the end. it was *easier* to just sit and whine.

Although I stayed this final time when hubby actually got help and we finally got counseling, I know I will never, ever sit and whine about another affair. I've got an exit plan ready and waiting should my family have to face this again.

Like Dr. Phil said today, “I would rather be healthy alone than sick with somebody else … I would rather be sitting alone under a bridge in a cardboard box by myself being my own best friend than I would be living in a controlling abusive situation. How about you?”

To me, the stress and pain caused by infidelity are tantamount to abuse. Especially when dealing with a serial adulterer.

Well, I have completely changed. But it took me three years. I spent the first 6 months not believing it happened in our marriage, then a couple months in anger, and then finally started listening to folks here.

We all do this at our own pace. I guess I'm slow.

B, I don't think throwing WH's belongings on the lawn is "nothing". You did something! I am slow too. I have changed personally and am slowly getting the rest of my life in order. I think this was about those that just can't see it, KWIM?

Mel

I hear ya.

I call it the 'Martyr complex'. We have a good friend who likes others to feel sorry for her, but doesn't ever fix the underlying problems.

This is part is conflict avoidance IMO, but also I am certain she feels it makes her friends and relatives give her PEMISSION to live in fear and inaction.

"Don't expect me to live victoriously or to have any adventures in my life because of blah blah blah ".

Its tragic Mel. Life suppressed through solvable problems.

Sand is a rarer commodity than you Texans believe <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I think a lot of us didn't see at first. The whole thing was such a shock.

Most folks that stick around for awhile finally "get it".

Its tragic Mel. Life suppressed through solvable problems.

[/quote]

Bob, you never stop amazing me !! Your sayings are priceless.

We ARE listening !!

Best regards - car

Mel, I understand what you’re saying and I agree.

I have personally experienced with some friends (and some people on this board) that sometimes people will be very responsive as long as you provide empathy and sympathy, but the minute you’re trying to give them advice and solutions to help solve or relief their problems, they tend to draw back, become silent or give excuses and “yes, but’s”. Yes, this can be very frustrating.